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New Jersey Plastic Bag Ban Results in Greater Plastic Use

Tuur

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Okay, so this looks strange:


Basically, customers are using multi-use bags only a few times or even only once,
 

RocksInMyHead

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A prime culprit appears to be grocery delivery/curbside pickup. Not sure how to resolve that one. Paper? It's more recyclable, at least.

As far as people being lazy and not actually re-using their reusable bags, the only solution I can think of is to increase the price of bags to incentivize people to remember them. It's an adjustment that people have to make to their routine, which is always hard to accomplish.
 
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PloverWing

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I agree about home delivery being a major issue. I live in New Jersey, so I've been watching this. For regular shopping, where I go into stores physically and buy stuff, the choice for reusable bags is good. I reuse my shopping bags until they totally wear out, so that's something like 10 years or more.

But when we get food delivered to the house (Chinese food, e.g.), it now comes in a thicker plastic bag than it used to (so, technically reusable?), which seems harder on the environment. And these thicker plastic bags aren't what I use for shopping, so they tend to pile up while I figure out how to recycle them.

I suggest that our NJ legislature should revisit the law, now that we've seen how it's working. Here in NJ, because we're so densely populated, we really do care about the environment. (Even the Republicans care about the environment here!) This is just one of those laws that had unintended consequences. Probably the rule for home delivery should be different from the rule for in-person shopping. I like the suggestion of paper bags for delivery.
 
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Okay, so this looks strange:


Basically, customers are using multi-use bags only a few times or even only once,
Yes, it is pointless. The only way to keep people from using plastics is to stop making it.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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I agree about home delivery being a major issue. I live in New Jersey, so I've been watching this. For regular shopping, where I go into stores physically and buy stuff, the choice for reusable bags is good. I reuse my shopping bags until they totally wear out, so that's something like 10 years or more.

But when we get food delivered to the house (Chinese food, e.g.), it now comes in a thicker plastic bag than it used to (so, technically reusable?), which seems harder on the environment. And these thicker plastic bags aren't what I use for shopping, so they tend to pile up while I figure out how to recycle them.

I suggest that our NJ legislature should revisit the law, now that we've seen how it's working. Here in NJ, because we're so densely populated, we really do care about the environment. (Even the Republicans care about the environment here!) This is just one of those laws that had unintended consequences. Probably the rule for home delivery should be different from the rule for in-person shopping. I like the suggestion of paper bags for delivery.
A few of our local businesses actually have what’s basically a bottle return for bags which then get used for delivery. One gives .25 per bag returns for all bags save for ones that are branded to them, then it’s .50 (minimum of 4 bags), another coffee place has a punch system, 10 bags gets you free scone/bagel/doughnut. The bags go out again for deliveries. The place that does the money-per-bag does in house delivery and they can pick them up when they drop your order, the other you have to drop them off.

They have glowing things to say about that system and how despite having financial incentives they’re saving tons of money, but I admit, I’m not sure how to scale it. The places that do it here are all locally owned, within walking distance, and owned by or espouse openly progressive beliefs, which means their core audience are more inclined to participate in that kind of program.

In a business that has customers who find environmental issues to be stupid (at best) and buying non disposable bags is a solid revenue stream, I’m not sure how willing to participate they’d be. Like, I don’t see Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A being hype to adopt a program that in a round about way is acknowledging the climate crisis.

But you know, this just slightly longer than this side of 100 years ago, people figured out how to do milk in glass jars, flour sacks in cloth, and ice in boxes and get all the jars, sacks, and trays back to the company they came from. If we could figure it out in the early 1900s…
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Yes, it is pointless. The only way to keep people from using plastics is to stop making it.
Yes, this would be a better idea. Even in CA, most people are fine with waisting money on bags And lack knowledge about why recycling, and cleaning the environment is a good idea.
 
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Tuur

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But you know, this just slightly longer than this side of 100 years ago, people figured out how to do milk in glass jars, flour sacks in cloth, and ice in boxes and get all the jars, sacks, and trays back to the company they came from. If we could figure it out in the early 1900s…
Glass is fragile, add weight, and reuse requires sterilization. How that compares with disposable, I don't know. Milk cartons of waxed paper was once a thing. at least up to quart size. Plastic jugs for milk in gallon quantities. Flour sacks weren't returned to the company, but were made into everything from dresses to towels. Today's flour sacks are paper, at least in the quantities we buy. Have never seen ice in boxes, likely because ice has the problem of melting. I have seen an ice box, sans ice service, but that's probably not what you're talking about.
 
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Tuur

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I prefer the insulated reusable bags as they hold a lot more and prevent the milk from going bad when it's 115 outside.
Another vote for insulated bags. Not quite as good as a cooler, which is our preferred choice for summer grocery shopping, but we have used them and keep a few in vehicles.
 
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Tuur

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The grocery store chain I shop at went back to paper bags, with handles. I actually like those better than the plastic bags.
That raises a question for New Jersey participants: Does the disposable bag ban affect paper bags? If not, why haven't stores gone back to them?

Sidebar note: Paper bags have all sorts of uses. I know of the mother of a former US senator who wrote out a check on paper taken from a grocery bag. The bank accepted it.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Glass is fragile, add weight, and reuse requires sterilization. How that compares with disposable, I don't know. Milk cartons of waxed paper was once a thing. at least up to quart size. Plastic jugs for milk in gallon quantities. Flour sacks weren't returned to the company, but were made into everything from dresses to towels. Today's flour sacks are paper, at least in the quantities we buy. Have never seen ice in boxes, likely because ice has the problem of melting. I have seen an ice box, sans ice service, but that's probably not what you're talking about.

In many areas flour sacks were returned and reused. All through New England, returning flour sacks of variable sizes to general store to be refilled for flour was commonplace. Yes, flour sack clothes and towels were a thing, but on large sacks, not the smaller ones traded back and forth for smaller amounts. And ice was formally delivered, in some places (New England through the PA region), in sawdust and straw-lined wooden boxes. Usually the larger chunks of lake-harvested ice.

The point being that if we could work out returning those items for those deliveries 100 years ago, we could likely work out the reusable bags if we were inclined.
 
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Tuur

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In many areas flour sacks were returned and reused. All through New England, returning flour sacks of variable sizes to general store to be refilled for flour was commonplace. Yes, flour sack clothes and towels were a thing, but on large sacks, not the smaller ones traded back and forth for smaller amounts. And ice was formally delivered, in some places (New England through the PA region), in sawdust and straw-lined wooden boxes. Usually the larger chunks of lake-harvested ice.

The point being that if we could work out returning those items for those deliveries 100 years ago, we could likely work out the reusable bags if we were inclined.
Interesting. Ice was a rare commodity in other places prior to refrigeration, and my wife's families and mine always made things from flour sacks.

Returning reusable bags is likely problematic unless they are made from cloth and are washable. That introduces the cost of laundering. Returning reusable bags is possible, but may not be cost effective.
 
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FireDragon76

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The largest single source of plastics in the oceans isn't from straws or plastic bags anyways. It's from the fishing industry losing nets, traps, and tackle. Worrying about plastic bags is almost a red herring that industry uses so that we don't focus on the predominant sources of pollution.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Interesting. Ice was a rare commodity in other places prior to refrigeration, and my wife's families and mine always made things from flour sacks.
Ice was uncommon prior to refrigeration excluding the very rich or the very poor who lived in areas and had the means to have sod or ice houses. In our area, you can find lakes with former ice houses run by the Tudor ice company on the shores and they’re so neat… Usually lakes off logging roads with no public access because lakes with public access had their ice houses disassembled decades ago. They look like normal houses but with no ground floor, just a basement-like pit. One of my favorite ones to visit as a kid would turn into this little pond with its own ecosystem… Fish who were trapped after the vernal ponds dried up, turtles, salamanders, birds nesting in the rafters, bats sleeping above them… It was like peeking into Wonderland.

All of that ice was sent to Boston, though, saving some that was taken home by locals here and there. There are pictures and sketches from Old Home Days where dirt poor people had maple on ice despite it being August as the last of the ice went to the locals as there was too little of it to ship and they had to clean it all out and prep it for fall. We had local ice runners who filled the gaps with the Tudor ice folks by selling their ice from sod houses, and it was a weird little gold rush for our area which had a hard time with no -livestock farming.

Our area, though, had ice delivery well into the 50s and early 60s because refrigeration was uncommon thanks to lack of electricity in some remote areas through until as late as the early 70s.

As for the flour, before AP flour was a thing (brain fart so I can’t remember if that was first introduced in 1896 or 1904), flour was not sold in home use sizes and most could neither use or store the bulk bags. People would have to bring grain sacks (pre Industrial Revolution) or specially made flour sacks (post IR) to bag and take smaller home-use portions from their local general store or mill. Like, Caroline Ingalls would have rolled into the Olsen’s Mercantile with a sack to be filled by the merchant on the amount she needed. Likely she wouldn’t ask for a pound or two pounds, but for the dollar amounts worth. So, .25 flour, .10 flour, and brought it home in a reusable, small sack. Depending on where we were in the US (Appalachia basically, and coal country in the Dakotas), that practice might have gone as late as the depression. While those sacks were certainly used for clothes, more commonly it was the 50 pound sacks that people used, the empty bags from the mercantile or if the family got the big bags, not the little ones used to cart home the amount for family use.

Sorry, I’m a hardcore food history buff… I spend waaaaay too much time researching it, LoL!

Returning reusable bags is likely problematic unless they are made from cloth and are washable. That introduces the cost of laundering. Returning reusable bags is possible, but may not be cost effective.

That I can’t answer. I have a reusable bag phobia, so I definitely hear that complaint and can’t answer how it’s solved, even by our businesses.
 
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Tuur

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Sorry, I’m a hardcore food history buff… I spend waaaaay too much time researching it, LoL!
No need to apologize. It's quite fascinating. I was comparing it to the practice of milling corn elsewhere.
 
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keith99

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I agree about home delivery being a major issue. I live in New Jersey, so I've been watching this. For regular shopping, where I go into stores physically and buy stuff, the choice for reusable bags is good. I reuse my shopping bags until they totally wear out, so that's something like 10 years or more.

But when we get food delivered to the house (Chinese food, e.g.), it now comes in a thicker plastic bag than it used to (so, technically reusable?), which seems harder on the environment. And these thicker plastic bags aren't what I use for shopping, so they tend to pile up while I figure out how to recycle them.

I suggest that our NJ legislature should revisit the law, now that we've seen how it's working. Here in NJ, because we're so densely populated, we really do care about the environment. (Even the Republicans care about the environment here!) This is just one of those laws that had unintended consequences. Probably the rule for home delivery should be different from the rule for in-person shopping. I like the suggestion of paper bags for delivery.
I think you nailed it. Technically reusable bags, ones that barely meet the thickness requirement, get used once a lot of the time and rarely more than a few times.

Real reusable bags get reused for years.

A couple of my real reusable bags are solid enough that they stand up well and are easier to load or unload than any single use bag.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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No need to apologize. It's quite fascinating. I was comparing it to the practice of milling corn elsewhere.
Thanks for humoring me. LoL!

If it even interests you a little, keep an eye out for vintage, pre-1900, or even 1890 cookbooks. All the measurements were given by spoons, thimbles, and price.

I have one recipe for tack that calls for like 10 cents flour, 2 penny yeast (off of a 10 cent block), 1 cent pot ash, two soup spoons honey, a thimble of salt… So many measurements by ingredient cost.
 
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Hank77

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And these thicker plastic bags aren't what I use for shopping, so they tend to pile up while I figure out how to recycle them.
Do you use plastic trash bags in your bathroom, etc. trash cans? I found years ago that the small plastic grocery sacks work well. I saved money and used only one sack instead of two. Now that they are banned in Colorado I'll have to start buying trash sacks.
We have a pellet stove and those bags are very heavy plastic and fit well in our tall kitchen trash bin. They don't break open either.
 
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