Ukraine/Israel military aid package fails in the Senate 49-51

essentialsaltes · Dec 7, 2023

Ukraine aid from US in doubt after briefing walk-out, failed Senate vote

The $110bn (£87.3bn) package included $61bn for Ukraine, as well as funds for Israel and aid for Gaza. The package [also] includes provisions for border security, but Republican demands for additional changes to asylum rules has complicated negotiations with Democrats.

Concerns over the future of the $110bn package grew on Tuesday after a classified briefing for lawmakers aimed at shoring up support for new funds broke down spectacularly. Senators shouted at each other over border security and at least a dozen Republicans walked out.

A Ukrainian official said that failure to secure more US aid would mean a "very high possibility" that the war will be lost to Russia.

Republicans are insisting that any aid to Ukraine be tied to sweeping US immigration and asylum reforms.

Earlier on Wednesday, US President Joe Biden said he was "willing to make significant compromises on the border" in order to get the aid bill passed.

[In addition to all GOP Senators, Bernie Sanders voted against the package due to the lack of conditions on the military aid provided to Israel.]

"What the Netanyahu government is doing is immoral, it is in violation of international law, and the United States should not be complicit in those actions."

Hans Blaster · Dec 7, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
Ukraine aid from US in doubt after briefing walk-out, failed Senate vote
The $110bn (£87.3bn) package included $61bn for Ukraine, as well as funds for Israel and aid for Gaza. The package [also] includes provisions for border security, but Republican demands for additional changes to asylum rules has complicated negotiations with Democrats.

Concerns over the future of the $110bn package grew on Tuesday after a classified briefing for lawmakers aimed at shoring up support for new funds broke down spectacularly. Senators shouted at each other over border security and at least a dozen Republicans walked out.

A Ukrainian official said that failure to secure more US aid would mean a "very high possibility" that the war will be lost to Russia.

Republicans are insisting that any aid to Ukraine be tied to sweeping US immigration and asylum reforms.

Earlier on Wednesday, US President Joe Biden said he was "willing to make significant compromises on the border" in order to get the aid bill passed.

[In addition to all GOP Senators, Bernie Sanders voted against the package due to the lack of conditions on the military aid provided to Israel.]

"What the Netanyahu government is doing is immoral, it is in violation of international law, and the United States should not be complicit in those actions."

In addition to Sen. Sanders and all Republicans, Sen. Schumer also changed his vote to "no" so that he could move to reconsider it later under Senate rules.

I skimmed the bill when it came out and while I see funding for the border (BP, immigration judges, etc.) I didn't spot any policy changes at the border. It is these policy changes (or rather the lack of them) that have the GOP senators all in a tizzy. I don't know how those fit in a supplemental funding bill.

mindlight · Dec 21, 2023

They should have separated all these issues. Israel, Ukraine, and the border are all separate issues requiring separate funding packages. To stop funding Israel or Ukraine at this time when the future of Western civilization largely hinges on such conflicts is self-defeating.

Desk trauma · Dec 21, 2023

mindlight said:
They should have separated all these issues. Israel, Ukraine, and the border are all separate issues requiring separate funding packages. To stop funding Israel or Ukraine at this time when the future of Western civilization largely hinges on such conflicts is self-defeating.

Lumping them together is a feature not a bug.

Love365 · Dec 21, 2023

Russia and Ukraine need seats in European Parliament.

Desk trauma · Dec 21, 2023

Love365 said:
Russia and Ukraine need seats in European Parliament.

How about co owning a booth at epcot??

Love365 · Dec 21, 2023

Desk trauma said:
How about co owning a booth at epcot??

There are no Slavic countries at Epcot.
Where is Poland’s booth?

There is no Slavic Disney Princess.

GreatLakes4Ever · Dec 21, 2023

I was just at Epcot. There is a spot next to Germany that is ready for a new country (Spain was supposed to take it in the 1980s). Any country that is willing to pay for the pavilion would be given it almost immediately. Disney I’m sure would love to have a new attraction there for Mickey’s 100th birthday (their next big celebration). If Ukraine or Russia or Poland wants it, it’s theirs.

Love365 · Dec 22, 2023

Russia and Ukraine need seats in European Parliament.

mindlight · Dec 22, 2023

Desk trauma said:
How about co owning a booth at epcot??

'%&$§"!/)(=?=``

Desk trauma · Dec 22, 2023

mindlight said:
But are you talking to a soulless Russian propaganda bot?

Quite likely.

iluvatar5150 · Dec 22, 2023

Love365 said:
There are no Slavic countries at Epcot.
Where is Poland’s booth?

There is no Slavic Disney Princess.

That's too bad. I'm going there in a few months and I would pound some good polish food. The Norwegian fare looks kind of weak, too.

Love365 · Dec 22, 2023

mindlight said:
But are you talking to a soulless Russian propaganda bot? Look at the post history of this member and look for proof of soul.

I can be a bit bland and boring.
Mostly to avoid unnecessary arguments.

I’m as American as Checkers fries.
You can get a hot apple pie inside a Mc Donald’s that’s
inside a Walmart.

Please don’t call anyone soulless.

SoldierOfTheKing · Dec 31, 2023

mindlight said:
They should have separated all these issues. Israel, Ukraine, and the border are all separate issues requiring separate funding packages. To stop funding Israel or Ukraine at this time when the future of Western civilization largely hinges on such conflicts is self-defeating.

The future of Western Civilization hinges infinitely more on the security of the security of the borders of the US than on those of Israel or the Ukraine.

Pommer · Dec 31, 2023

SoldierOfTheKing said:
The future of Western Civilization hinges infinitely more on the security of the security of the borders of the US than on those of Israel or the Ukraine.

“Western Civilization”=USA?

SoldierOfTheKing · Dec 31, 2023

Pommer said:
“Western Civilization”=USA?

The USA is a major part of it…

Pommer · Dec 31, 2023

SoldierOfTheKing said:
The USA is a major part of it…

And an influx of people from other parts of the world will bring the USA “down”?
What’s it like to live in such fear?

The Barbarian · Jan 6, 2024

Pommer said:
And an influx of people from other parts of the world will bring the USA “down”?
What’s it like to live in such fear?

It is a rejection of everything America stands for. Fact is, an influx of people from other parts of the world is what made the USA great.

SoldierOfTheKing · Jan 6, 2024

Pommer said:
And an influx of people from other parts of the world will bring the USA “down”?
What’s it like to live in such fear?

It's got to be better that living in fear over the borders of the most backward country in Europe, or of the fate of what basically amounts to a glorified military garrison on the east shore of the Mediterranean, like the poster I was referring to. It ought to be self-evident how absurd it is for our government to be talking about massive expenditures to protect The Ukraine or Israel when they won't even protect our own borders.

The Barbarian said:
It is a rejection of everything America stands for. Fact is, an influx of people from other parts of the world is what made the USA great.

Pure sentimentalism. It isn't about the merits of immigration policy in years past (which has always had restrictions anyway), were talking about merits of immigration policy today. This is the same logic as arguing that US independence was wrong because America had previously benefitted from British rule.

The Barbarian · Jan 6, 2024

SoldierOfTheKing said:
It ought to be self-evident how absurd it is for our government to be talking about massive expenditures to protect The Ukraine or Israel when they won't even protect our own borders.

You do realize that the reason all those people are stopped at the border is that they have been stopped, right? The border is just a strawman; more and more of the illegal immigration is coming in by air; people who come in legally and then overstay. Don't be so gullible.

(Regarding obsessive fear of immigrants)
It is a rejection of everything America stands for. Fact is, an influx of people from other parts of the world is what made the USA great.

SoldierOfTheKing said:
Pure sentimentalism.

Historical fact. Ignorance of our history is not an excuse on your part. We are, the vast majority of us, descendants of those immigrants. Don't be so gullible.

SoldierOfTheKing said:
It isn't about the merits of immigration policy in years past (which has always had restrictions anyway)

Actually, we had open borders until the late 1800s. Again, ignorance of history on your part, is not an excuse.

SoldierOfTheKing said:
This is the same logic as arguing that US independence was wrong because America had previously benefitted from British rule.

No. You're thinking of the conservative argument that slavery was good because it supposedly taught black people trades. The logic is simple; the U.S. came to be a great nation precisely when we had large influxes of immigrants. Would you like me to show you?

Don't be so gullible.

Ukraine/Israel military aid package fails in the Senate 49-51

Fact-Based Lifeform

Ukraine aid from US in doubt after briefing walk-out, failed Senate vote​

Raised by bees

Ukraine aid from US in doubt after briefing walk-out, failed Senate vote​

See in the dark

The pickles are up to something

Well-Known Member

The pickles are up to something

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

See in the dark

The pickles are up to something

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Christian Spenglerian

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

Christian Spenglerian

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

Crabby Old White Guy

Christian Spenglerian

Crabby Old White Guy

Similar threads

Ukraine aid from US in doubt after briefing walk-out, failed Senate vote

Ukraine aid from US in doubt after briefing walk-out, failed Senate vote