• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

It is the doers of the Law who are righteous before God.

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
63,733
10,599
US
✟1,522,144.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
So, God writing the laws on our hearts could not take place until Jesus death on the cross where He brought in the full force of the New Testament. This is what Paul is telling us. A testament cannot be in affect until the testator dies, Hebrews 9:16-17 KJV. Jesus is the testator of the New Testament.
You're conflating testament with "covenant." YHWH made a covenant with Israel. In Jeremiah 31, YHWH said that he would renew that covenant with Israel. YHWH never died, and the Greek word for "last will" (testament) doesn't appear in the "New Testament." Some man slapped that phrase on that collection of books after it they were canonized; and YHWH didn't command that.

Let's look again at what YHWH actually said.

Jer 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract (כָּרַת) a renewed covenant (ברית) with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

The covenant is with YHWH by his own words. Again YHWH never died.

Now let's look at this covenant a little more deeply. The root of the Hebrew word covenant ((ברית) BRYT) is BR. The action form of BR means feed; and the concrete form means grain.

Hebrew words are built on the root word; and the words built on those root words have similar meanings.

Here is another word built on the root BR, HBR. HBR means divide. How in the world are these two words related? Stick with me and hopefully you'll begin to see.

BRA means fat. Animals are BR (fed) to BRA (fatten) them up.

Here is another, BRH. The action form of the word means "eat." The concrete form means "meat." The abstract form means "covenant."

Hold those thoughts.

Now lets look at the word translated as "contract." The Hebrew word is (כרת). It means cut.

Now let's put it all together.

A covenant is cut when a choice fattened animal is cut up. The two parties in the agreement pass the through the sacrificed animal. If one party fails to meet the agreement; then the other party may do to him what was done to the animal.

A few chapters down in Jeremiah we see an example of a covenant.

(CLV) Jer 34:18

I will make the men, the trespassers of My covenant, who do not carry out the words of the covenant which they contracted before Me, like the calf which they cut in two and passed between its sundered parts,


No one comes to the father except through Yahshua's sacrifice in the renewed covenant
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
63,733
10,599
US
✟1,522,144.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Testing the spirit and having the indwelling Spirit is two different things.

Testing the spirit is relating to false prophets or false teachers.

The indwelling Spirit is given to the believer by God.
Are not demons indwelling spirits? So again, how does one test an indwelling spirit?
 
Upvote 0

biblelesson

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2021
1,121
408
67
College Park
✟82,577.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Are not demons indwelling spirits? So again, how does one test an indwelling spirit?
This will have to be my last discussion with you because I don’t want to be involved with any blaspheming of the Holy Ghost.

But I will give you these final scriptures relating to the Holy Spirit Who is the indwelling Spirit (Capital S). The Spirit is given to the believer in their personal lives, which needs no discernment.

Romans 8:9 KJV
John 14:26 KJV
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
Romans 5:5 KJV
Ezekiel 36:27 KJV
Acts 1:8 KJV
1 Corinthians 2:11 KJV
2 Corinthians 13:14 KJV
Acts 5:32 KJV
2 Peter 1:21 KJV
Acts 2:38 KJV
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
63,733
10,599
US
✟1,522,144.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Ezekiel 36:27
(CLV) Ezk 36:27
My spirit shall I bestow within you, And I will make it that you shall walk in My statutes and observe My ordinances, And you will obey them.

I don't believe that the Ruach HaKodesh would lead us not to obey YHWH's Torah.

This is why I test the "spirits" by his word.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
24,135
9,064
up there
✟360,487.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Spirit - (ru'ach) wind (to follow a recommended path) eg Holy Spirit (see Holy)

Holy - (qadosh) to be set apart for a special purpose eg. Holy ground

The HS guides us on an already established path determined by God. Man who claims the HS gives them insight (hence many denominations) most often instead follows a self determined path created other than the original guided path, hence it's presence is questionable. That is how a complicated religion was created out of a simple movement following the will of God rather than of man.
 
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
28,045
45,753
68
✟3,081,746.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
That would be because many CF people have a near heart attack if good works are mentioned as a part of one's salvation, and that despite the explicit teaching of Christ that doing his word is a necessity and that merely hearing it and not doing it is worthless.
Hello again Xeno.of.athens, works being "a part of one's salvation" should not be problematic for anyone within the pale of Christian orthodoxy, RCC, EOC, Protestant, etc. After all, the following was said by both Calvin and Luther (these are actually Calvin's words, but Luther said the very same thing):

"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone."

The problem arises whenever what 'we' do as Christians (our good works, obedience, righteous living, etc.) is seen as being necessary FOR our salvation, rather than something that results FROM our salvation.

The former puts the (proverbial) cart before the horse ;)

IOW, our lives change (from worldly to godly) AFTER we've been saved, AFTER we have come to know God .. (e.g. John 17:3) and have, therefore, ALREADY established a personal relationship with Him (AFTER we have been given the mind of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, to guide us and teach us, and make it possible for us to finally make sense of the things of God from His "spiritual" POV). This is simply not possible prior to God causing us to be born again/made alive and coming, then, to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; 1 Corinthians 2:12-16; Ephesians 2:1-5.

The Apostle describes some of the key differences for us, between those who know God and are saved (v12-13, 15-16), and those who do not know Him/are not saved (v14) in the passage below:


1 Corinthians 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
14 But a natural man ~does not accept~ the things of the Spirit of God, for they are ~foolishness~ to him; and ~he cannot understand them~, because they are ~spiritually~ appraised. (e.g. 1 Corinthians 1:18)
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

How could someone who does not know God (see v14 above), who cannot accept or understand the things of God (as anything other than foolishness, at best), choose to obey Him?

We all believe that works are a necessary PART of our salvation, the only question, then, is WHICH part ;)

God bless you!!

--David
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
3,926
341
88
Arcadia
✟244,917.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, saint Paul is not in error, the preacher possibly was in error, but you are presenting error as some kind of counterpoint to Romans 2:13. Both Romans 2:13 and Romans 3:28 are true, one merely need read the whole passage to understand that works of the Law and faith together justify, the former by doing the law, the latter by grace through faith. There is no need to choose one and reject the other. The Christian faith is this, we are saved by grace through faith in order to live a life marked by good works - the good works that God planned for us to do.
In one of your post ,you say that we don believe in GOOD WORKS , not true !!

As Eph 2:10 says For we are his handiwork , having been CREATED in Christ Jesus , FOR GOOD WORKS which prepared previously in order that we should regulate our lives by them >

dan p
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
6,993
2,151
Perth
✟188,424.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone."
The problem arises whenever what 'we' do (our good works/obedience/righteous living/etc.) is seen as being necessary FOR our salvation, rather than seeing what 'we' do as something that necessarily results FROM our salvation. We must not put the cart before the horse, especially Biblically speaking, yes ;)
I do not agree with this kind of wording; we are indeed saved by grace, so no one can claim to have done anything that saved them, yet all who are saved both believe and do the word of God.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
24,135
9,064
up there
✟360,487.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
yet all who are saved both believe and do the word of God.
Exactly ! Who automatically does good works simply because Jesus opened the door to resurrection? (salvation) We must first relinquish our will of self interest and replace it with the will of God. We willingly switch sides of our hybrid nature.
 
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
28,045
45,753
68
✟3,081,746.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
I do not agree with this kind of wording; we are indeed saved by grace, so no one can claim to have done anything that saved them, yet all who are saved both believe and do the word of God.
It's interesting that you say that you do not agree with the Calvin/Luther quote, because what you just wrote (see the bold type, in particular) is a great way to describe or define what the Reformers' quote actually means :)

The word ALONE simply means this, that we are saved by God alone, by what 'He' did for us, rather than by anything that 'we' do for ourselves.

Question: How can what 'we' do, rather than what 'He' did (& does) for us alone, be understood as being the CAUSE of our salvation, even in part, considering what saving us entails .. e.g. Romans 5:8-10?

Thanks :)

--David


Hebrews 9
22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
.
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
6,993
2,151
Perth
✟188,424.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
It's interesting that you say that you do not agree with the Calvin/Luther quote, because what you just wrote (see the bold type, in particular) is a great way to describe or define what the Reformers' quote actually means :)
Except that "by faith alone" plays no part in what I wrote.
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
10,004
1,779
60
New England
✟599,662.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Good day,

To do the law is to belive in Christ...


Ambrosiaster

Paul says this because those who hear the law are not justified unless they believe in Christ, whom the law itself has promised. This is what it means to keep the law. For how does someone who does not believe the law keep it, when he does not receive the One to whom the law bears witness? But the one who appears not to be under the law because he is uncircumcised in his flesh, if he believes in Christ, may be said to have kept the law. And he who says he is in the law, i.e., the Jew, because what is said in the law does not penetrate to his mind, is not a doer of the law but a hearer only, for he does not believe in the Christ who is written about in the law, as Philip said to Nathanael: “We have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote.” Commentary on Paul’s Epistles

In Him,

Bill
 
Upvote 0

biblelesson

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2021
1,121
408
67
College Park
✟82,577.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Paul says this because those who hear the law are not justified unless they believe in Christ, whom the law itself has promised.
Correction: I should say I agree some of what you are saying. I was responding to what I see people do, but I think you were exposing the problem also.

So I will say that there are some who have put the law before Christ. They use believing on Christ as the basis for being justified by the law (I left a group that was doing this). This is not what Paul is saying.

Our focus must be on Christ who removes the requirements of the law from us. We are only justified in Christ. We are justified before God because we believe on Christ. We are not justified in the law because we believe on Christ - the law was nailed to the cross. We do not keep it. That’s not why Jesus came. Jesus came to redeem us from the curse of the law.

We are made righteous by Jesus, not by keeping the law. Because Jesus is righteous, His righteousness is imputed on us - we are made righteous by Jesus righteousness. The law has nothing to do with it.

Some make the law more important than Jesus not understanding that Jesus is the end of the law for those who believe [on Him], and He is our righteousness.

Romans 10:4 KJV, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”

Those who don’t believe in Christ are subject to the curse of the law. The law is not for the righteous [in Jesus], but the unrighteousness.

1 Timothy 1:9 KJV,
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man [believers in Christ - made righteous], but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,” [these are all who do not believe in Jesus - they are the unrighteousness because they are unbelievers].
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BBAS 64
Upvote 0

Hawkins

Member
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2005
2,657
413
Canada
✟300,256.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The big picture is,

God's goal is to build an eternity we call Heaven where humans and angels will live with God happily forever. The three parties must be happy and satisfactory. The completely sin-incompatible God won't be happy to live with sins in such a forever realm.

Law is thus set up to identity who (both angels and humans alike) is qualified to enter Heaven to live with such a sin-incompatible God forever. Law is more or less like a promise saying that, "if you pass the Final Judgment of Law, God will bear with you in eternity no matter what." That's why God's Law is strict in order to stick with such a promise.

The nature of Law works like this. Given a pre-defined period of time, an entity of freewill must not break it. It's an assessment of one's ability to obey. Free will at the end means one is given the ability to oppose God. Law measures one's ability to be obedient without exercising the ability of opposing God, such that God, as well as angels and humans, can live together without an issue. By the hint given in the book of Revelation, 2/3 angels will pass the Final Judgment of Law to enter Heaven.

How about humans? Genesis says that the much more capable and intelligent angelic beings (i.e., the crafty snake) will tempt humans into breaking the Law. Adam and Eve fell due to, or the lack thereof, the two critical factors without which humans won't be able to live with a sin-compatible God in the forever realm. First is the lack of obedience, and second is the lack of faith in God and His words (i.e., the Word of God in a broader sense).

Ever since Adam and Eve sinned under the influence of Satan, Law requires that humans need to be driven out of God's current dwelling realm. Today's earth is outside the realm of God. While any place lying outside of God's dwelling realm will decay to a hell where the most powerful and the most evil will finally rule. This happens to be Satan. That's why Satan is referred to as the god of this world.

Satan turned Earth into a wilderness,
Isaiah 14:17: the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?



In such a wilderness virtually 'ruled' by Satan, humans have no hope to pass the Final Judgment of Law to enter Heaven. Satan and his angels (they are much more capable and intelligent than humans) will make sure that humans are captive and 'would not let his captives go home'. As a result, God either destroy earth as a whole (by Noah's flood), or there must be an alternative provided to get this resolved. Needless the say, the resolution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus' self-sacrifice at some point of humanity, it makes it possible that humans can 'dodge' the Final Judgment of Law. Humans now are provided a series of covenants as the alternative standard for the Final Judgment (of Covenant instead of Law) to come.

While Law is provide a pre-defined period of time for an entity of free will not to break it. a covenant works on a human through his life span, followed by a Final Judgment of Covenant subjective by a fair and just God (who is Jesus Christ our Lord, as God the Son). Under the New Covenant, your life span is for the assessment of your faith as demanded by the Final Judgment of Covenant carried out by Jesus Christ.

Again it's like promise saying that, "if you pass the Final Judgment of Covenant, the completely sin-incompatible God will bear with you in eternity, no matter what!"

That being said. The three-fold meaning of the term Law is well stated by Paul.

Romans 2:13-15
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Firstly, the heavenly Law now can only practically apply to the angels and is no longer demonstratable to humans. With this set of heavenly Law, 2/3 angels will pass the Final Judgment of Law to enter Heaven (as hinted in Rev.). To humans and in front of this set of heavenly Law, it is said that, "no one is righteous not even one." No humans can be deemed righteous in front of the Judgment of Law. Humans are saved through the covenants granted by God's Grace through Jesus Christ.

Secondly, Mosaic Law is a set of laws under the Mosaic covenant. It's covenantal and for God to demonstrate to humans, through His chosen people Israel, what His heavenly Law could mean such that humans can have a grasp on what God's Grace could mean under the New Covenant. The scope of Mosaic covenant (with Mosaic Law) only covers the Jews. Gentiles "do not have the law" as Paul put.

Under this set of Law, Moses will determine who to be accused of,

John 5:45: But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.


Thirdly, gentiles are under the Law written in our heart, which is our inner conscience. We gentiles will be judged by this thrid set of Law embedded to our heart, unless we choose to hop over to the New Covenant.

Under this set of Law, Satan is the accuser, his role however is nullified if you choose to come to "the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah."

Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

GDL

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2020
4,247
1,255
SE
✟113,487.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The is a difference between a law, and a covenant (contract). Do you understand the difference? If so please explain the difference.

Let's look at this contract.

Jer 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a (חדשה) covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
Hebrew: cut, make an agreement. Greek: make formal arrangements, make a covenant.

(חדשה) discussed below.
châdash, khaw-dash'; a primitive root; to be new; causatively, to rebuild:—renew, repair.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)

STRONGS H2318:
† [חָדַשׁ] verb only Pi. (and Hithp.) renew, repair (in poetry and late) (Late Hebrew id., Phoenician חדש; noun חדש new moon, also in קרתחדשת new-city£½Carthage; Aramaic Tedfo and חַדֵּשׁ; Arabic حَدَثَ be new, Ethiopic ሐደለ፡ I. 2. renew; Sabean החדתֿ, see Os (Levy): ZMG 1865, 204 MordtZMG 1876, 30; Assyrian [adâڑu], uddiڑ, renew, eڑڑu, new, etc. DlW 199 ff.) —
Pi. Perfect וְחִדְּשׁוּ consecutive Isaiah 61:4; Imperfect וַיְחַדֵּשׁ 2 Chronicles 15:8; 2nd person masculine singular תְּחַדֵּשׁ Job 10:17; Psalm 104:30; וּנְחַדֵּשׁ 1 Samuel 11:14; Imperative חַדֵּשׁ Psalm 51:21; Infinitive לְחַדֵּשׁ 2 Chronicles 24:4, 12; —
1. renew, make anew הַמְּלוּכָה 1 Samuel 11:14 (editorial); פני אדמה Psalm 104:30, רוּחַ Psalm 51:12 (|| בּרא); = bring back יָמֵינוּ כְּקֶדֶם Lamentations 5:21; עדיך ח׳ Job 10:17 i.e. bringest fresh (new) witnesses.
Try chādāsh. kaw-dawsh. Strong's 2319. BDB: "new". HALOT & Holladay: new, fresh. TWOT: hādāsh New, new thing, fresh. This adjective, usually attributive, describes, as in English, a variety of physical objects e*.g., house, wife, cords, sword, garment, cruse, meal offering, king, gate, etc.). It is also used for non-material things as name (Isa 62:2), song (Psa 149:1), covenant (Jer 31:31), God's mercies (Lam 3:23), heart, and spirit (Ezek 36:26). While suffering, Job longed for the time when his glory was "fresh" in him (Job 29:20).

LXX kainos: Liddell-Scott: new, fresh. BDAG: 1. pert. to being in existence for a relatively short time, new, unused; 2. pert. to being not previously present, unknown, strange, remarkable; 3. pert. to that which is recent in contrast to someth. old, new. b. in the sense that what is old has become obsolete, and should be replaced by what is new. In such a case the new is, as a rule, superior in kind to the old ἡ κ. διαθήκη the new covenant or declaration (Jer 38:31; Just., D. 11, 4 al.; Did., Gen. 46, 4; 156, 5) Mt 26:28 v.l.; Mk 14:24 v.l.; Lk 22:20; 1 Cor 11:25; 2 Cor 3:6; Hb 8:8 (Jer 38:31), 13; 9:15.
  • Note what looks to be a typo in 2 places; Jer38:31 s/b Jer31:31.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
28,045
45,753
68
✟3,081,746.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Except that "by faith alone" plays no part in what I wrote.
Hello again Xeno.of.athens:, yes, sorry about that. The "5 Solas" of the Reformation all mean the same thing (which is why they are referred to as 5 "Solas"), that our salvation is by Christ (by God) alone. They simply look at Divine salvation from somewhat different points of view (which I should have explained in my last post).

That said, I'd like to ask you another question or two about your last post to me.


....we are indeed saved by grace, so no one can claim to have done anything that saved them, yet all who are saved both believe and do the word of God.
You also said (earlier in the thread) that ".......works of the Law and faith ~together justify~, the former by doing the law, the latter by grace through faith".

So, which is it? Do our works play a role in justifying/saving us, or do they not? You cannot say that they do on the one hand while saying that they do not on the other!

Assuming that you are correct for the moment, in what way(s) do you believe that our works "justify us" before God/what role do they play in bringing about our justification/salvation (in atoning for our sins, in God forgiving us of our sins, etc.).

Thanks :)

God bless you!!

--David
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
6,993
2,151
Perth
✟188,424.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Hello again Xeno.of.athens:, yes, sorry about that. The "5 Solas" of the Reformation all mean the same thing (which is why they are referred to as 5 "Solas"), that our salvation is by Christ (by God) alone. They simply look at Divine salvation from somewhat different points of view (which I should have explained in my last post).

That said, I'd like to ask you another question or two about your last post to me.


You also said (earlier in the thread) that ".......works of the Law and faith ~together justify~, the former by doing the law, the latter by grace through faith".

So, which is it? Do our works play a role in justifying/saving us, or do they not? You cannot say that they do on the one hand while saying that they do not on the other!

Assuming that you are correct for the moment, in what way(s) do you believe that our works "justify us" before God/what role do they play in bringing about our justification/salvation (in atoning for our sins, in God forgiving us of our sins, etc.).

Thanks :)

God bless you!!

--David
Of course works play a role in saving souls; one would never hear the gospel nor see a bible but for the good works of the Church, and the Church is, of course, people. And works justify in the way that saint James explains; he gives a good explanation which is worth reading and contemplating, in James chapter two.
 
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
28,045
45,753
68
✟3,081,746.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Of course works play a role in saving souls; one would never hear the gospel nor see a bible but for the good works of the Church, and the Church is, of course, people.
I, of course, wasn't talking about the work that we do to help reach others with the Gospel ;)

Let me try again, how do ~your~ works save ~you~? Thanks :)


And works justify in the way that saint James explains; he gives a good explanation which is worth reading and contemplating, in James chapter two.
James 2 is speaking of two 'kinds' of faith, one that is lively/saving, and one that is dead. One that RESULTS in good works, obedience, and holy living, etc., and one that never does.

Our works have NOTHING to do with gaining or maintaining our salvation because, again, our works are the RESULT, NEVER the cause of our being saved (we are saved, "created in Christ Jesus ~for/unto~ good works", not because of them .. see v10 below).


Ephesians 2
8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 ~not~ as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ~for/unto~ good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

As such, our works help to demonstrate who we really are.............


James 2
18 Someone may say, “You have faith and I have works; ~show me~ your faith without the works, and I will ~show you~ my faith by my works.”

.................Christian/true believer ~or~ CINO*.

Finally, while our works can help us determine the 'kind' of faith that we possess (both to ourselves and to others), God has no need of such outward demonstrations to help Him determine whether or not we are saved, because (unlike us) He sees the heart.

God bless you!!

--David

*
(CINO = Christian In Name Only)
 
Upvote 0