New York judge finds Donald Trump liable for fraud

essentialsaltes · Sep 28, 2023

In my email box this morning from Trump's campaign-slash-legal fund asking for money...

MY CIVIL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED

There was no trial… There was no jury…

[Uh, there was a trial. It was a bench-trial without a jury. Because you didn't ask for a jury trial. Or forgot to.]

…It’s no coincidence that this horrible, un-American decision came down on the same day that it was revealed that Hunter Biden took bribes from China, and used Joe Biden’s home address to receive the wired money.

[Does no one in Trumpworld understand how a wire transfer works? For the last time, a sack of money did not show up at Joe's house. The money (from one of Hunter's business partners, not 'China') went electronically into Hunter's bank account.]

Please make a contribution to prove that you will NEVER SURRENDER our mission to SAVE AMERICA.

Paid for by Trump Save America Joint Fundraising Committee, a joint fundraising committee composed of and authorized by Donald J. Trump for President 2024, Inc. and Save America.

JustOneWay · Sep 28, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
[Does no one in Trumpworld understand how a wire transfer works? For the last time, a sack of money did not show up at Joe's house. The money (from one of Hunter's business partners, not 'China') went electronically into Hunter's bank account.]

I wanted to point this out earlier but decided it was not worth the effort.

essentialsaltes · Sep 28, 2023

JustOneWay said:
I wanted to point this out earlier but decided it was not worth the effort.

Clearly, the rightwing talking points about this have already spread far and wide; despite being hot garbage.

NxNW · Sep 28, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
…It’s no coincidence that this horrible, un-American decision came down on the same day that it was revealed that Hunter Biden took bribes from China, and used Joe Biden’s home address to receive the wired money.

[Does no one in Trumpworld understand how a wire transfer works? For the last time, a sack of money did not show up at Joe's house. The money (from one of Hunter's business partners, not 'China') went electronically into Hunter's bank account.]

Last time I wired money, it was delivered like this:

Arcangl86 · Sep 28, 2023

NxNW said:
Last time I wired money, it was delivered like this:

View attachment 336894

idk, I rather have it delivered in gold bars.

JustOneWay · Sep 28, 2023

Arcangl86 said:
idk, I rather have it delivered in gold bars.

I wired money to my son last week but it was returned because I did not use enough stamps....

essentialsaltes · Sep 28, 2023

Uh-oh, maybe I was wrong about how it works after all.

JustOneWay · Sep 28, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
Uh-oh, maybe I was wrong about how it works after all.

View attachment 336909

Reminds me of the 'A series of tubes'....

essentialsaltes · Sep 29, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
In my email box this morning from Trump's campaign-slash-legal fund asking for money...
Paid for by Trump Save America Joint Fundraising Committee, a joint fundraising committee composed of and authorized by Donald J. Trump for President 2024, Inc. and Save America.

I guess a lot of his base is happy with this use of their money.

A Reuters/Ipsos poll in August found about 60% of Republicans thought it appropriate for Trump to spend political donations on his legal issues but 40% considered it inappropriate.

Trump's campaign machine is bleeding cash for legal expenses

WASHINGTON, Sept 29 (Reuters) - Donald Trump's political operation has helped pay the legal expenses of more than a dozen people contacted by prosecutors investigating the former president, tying up millions of dollars that otherwise could be used for his 2024 White House bid.

Arcangl86 · Sep 29, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
[Does no one in Trumpworld understand how a wire transfer works? For the last time, a sack of money did not show up at Joe's house. The money (from one of Hunter's business partners, not 'China') went electronically into Hunter's bank account.]

Of course they do. They are just counting on the fact that most people are unfamiliar with wire transfers and that the address has to be there for a reason.

The Barbarian · Oct 12, 2023

BPPLEE said:
I just have 2 questions: Did Trump pay back the loans? And did the banks complain?

Turns out, all he had to do was dishonestly represent the value of the property. Whether or not the scheme worked, does not matter as far as the law is concerned.

BPPLEE · Oct 12, 2023

The Barbarian said:
Turns out, all he had to do was dishonestly represent the value of the property. Whether or not the scheme worked, does not matter as far as the law is concerned.

Okay so I can go to the bank and say I want to borrow $5 million dollars and use my house as collateral and they will just give me the money? I’ll have to check into that

The Barbarian · Oct 12, 2023

Turns out, all he had to do was dishonestly represent the value of the property.

BPPLEE said:
Okay so I can go to the bank and say I want to borrow $5 million dollars and use my house as collateral and they will just give me the money?

Whether or not the scheme worked, does not matter as far as the law is concerned.

BPPLEE said:
I’ll have to check into that

Good idea.

Bradskii · Oct 12, 2023

BPPLEE said:
Okay so I can go to the bank and say I want to borrow $5 million dollars and use my house as collateral and they will just give me the money? I’ll have to check into that

You could if your house was worth north of that figure. Use a property to raise a mortgage and the bank will value it. But Trump wasn't using any individual property as collateral. He was using his overall wealth. And he signed documents to that effect. But his overall wealth was based on fraudulant representations of the value of some of his properties.

'...the bank relied on Trump’s guarantee that he could use his personal wealth to cover the loans if his business went bad.' Trump deceived Deutsche Bank, former exec testifies

This is one of the critical aspects of the case. I'm surprised that after all these months and hundred of posts in this forum on the matter that you didn't know this.

BPPLEE · Oct 12, 2023

Bradskii said:
You could if your house was worth north of that figure. Use a property to raise a mortgage and the bank will value it. But Trump wasn't using any individual property as collateral. He was using his overall wealth. And he signed documents to that effect. But his overall wealth was based on fraudulant representations of the value of some of his properties.

'...the bank relied on Trump’s guarantee that he could use his personal wealth to cover the loans if his business went bad.' Trump deceived Deutsche Bank, former exec testifies

This is one of the critical aspects of the case. I'm surprised that after all these months and hundred of posts in this forum on the matter that you didn't know this.

I don’t rely on posts on a forum for news. Trump has said and done some things (including this week) that I can’t support and I don’t support him for president but I don’t have confidence that this case is not politically motivated and other people who have done the same thing are not prosecuted for it.
I guess it doesn’t matter what the reason is but I can’t support Trump

Bradskii · Oct 12, 2023

BPPLEE said:
I don’t rely on posts on a forum for news. Trump has said and done some things (including this week) that I can’t support and I don’t support him for president but I don’t have confidence that this case is not politically motivated and other people who have done the same thing are not prosecuted for it.
I guess it doesn’t matter what the reason is but I can’t support Trump

You don't have to rely on personal opinion. There have been dozens of links posted to news articles that explain why exactly Trump was convicted of fraud. You must have read newspaper reports or listened to the TV. You've been prominent in this thread and others about the case. And you didn't even know on what basis the charges were brought...

BPPLEE · Oct 12, 2023

Bradskii said:
You don't have to rely on personal opinion. There have been dozens of links posted to news articles that explain why exactly Trump was convicted of fraud. You must have read newspaper reports or listened to the TV. You've been prominent in this thread and others about the case. And you didn't even know on what basis the charges were brought...

I understand the accusations and the conviction and none of it absolves the bank’s responsibility to ensure that borrowers have sufficient collateral to cover their loans. That is what I was referring to in the analogy about my house.
Perhaps you should read my posts before making thinly veiled insults because someone has a difference of opinion And you have to be blind not to see that the case was politically motivated. Too bad that it won’t prevent him from running

Bradskii · Oct 12, 2023

BPPLEE said:
I understand the accusations and the conviction and none of it absolves the bank’s responsibility to ensure that borrowers have sufficient collateral to cover their loans. That is what I was referring to in the analogy about my house.

There was no specific property offered as collateral. The bank wasn't presented with anything specific to value. It was Trumps declared wealth which he presented to get the loan. His declaration was fraudulent. Mostly because he overvalued property.

Your analogy doesn't work.

BPPLEE · Oct 12, 2023

Bradskii said:
There was no specific property offered as collateral. The bank wasn't presented with anything specific to value. It was Trumps declared wealth which he presented to get the loan. His declaration was fraudulent. Mostly because he overvalued property.

Your analogy doesn't work.

His declared wealth was based on what? According to you OVERVALUED PROPERTY
What was he convicted of? Fraud due to overvaluing property. He allegedly lied about the size of one property TO OVERVALUE it and how many stories did I read about the value of Mar a lago?
”NEW YORK, Sept 26 (Reuters) - A New York judge found Donald Trump and his family business fraudulently inflated the value of his properties and other assets, in a major defeat for the former U.S. president that could severely hamper his ability to do business in the state.”

Whatever he used as collateral including his declared wealth the bank is still responsible for making sure the loan can be repaid

essentialsaltes · Oct 12, 2023

BPPLEE said:
I understand the accusations and the conviction and none of it absolves the bank’s responsibility

Sure, Deutsche Bank was negligent, but ultimately there were consequences for the people involved.

That doesn't absolve Trump of his fraudulent loan applications.

New York judge finds Donald Trump liable for fraud

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Trump's campaign machine is bleeding cash for legal expenses​

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