God Disqualified Christians From Participating in the Mosaic Law Covenant

GDL · Sep 26, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
So this law of Christ is in conflict with the law of God?

No per Paul in 1Cor9:21 at minimum. God is not in conflict with God.

But the Law of Christ is not in accordance with all of the Law of Moses or Jesus couldn't be High Priest for one thing among many things.

Mosaic Covenant + Mosaic Law = Mosaic Law Covenant - the Old Covenant now vanished (for millennia).

New Covenant + Law of Christ/Messiah = Messianic Law Covenant - the New Covenant (in place and active).

And, no, I can't give you one verse for this, so please don't ask. It's simply reasoning through many books of the Bible and applying some terminology like was done with the Trinity doctrine.

The specifics of obeying the commandments of God depends on what Law and Covenant is in place. God doesn't change so there is a consistency of righteousness and justice & love & mercy and all of God's characteristics in God's Law whether it is of pre-Moses, of Moses or of Christ.

Interestingly, I don't see where we're told that we're under the Law of Christ as the old-timers were under the Law of Moses. The subordination is now to Jesus Christ personally. Did Moses ever tell anybody to keep his commandments. Jesus certainly did. Must have something to do with His being God and our relationship being with God personally in Spirit. And the God-Man is now our God, our Great High Priest, our King, our everything and we can approach Him directly at any time, and He is in us, and we are in Him, and our Father has made His home with us, and.... Please catch up to the glory and reality we have.

There are many differences in the New Covenant era, but it was and is all righteous, because it was and is all of God.

NKJ 1 John3:21-24 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Really, if we think about it, doesn't verse 23 pretty much sum up the entirety of the New Covenant Law of Christ now?

There's Faith and Obedience to God the Father and to Jesus Christ here.
- So, in essence there's the first greatest commandment contained here.
There's the Commandment of Jesus Christ to love one another as He loved us.
- This commandment has similarity to and is based in the second greatest commandment and Jesus' love for our Father and for us, and His fulfillment of Law.
Isn't this the summation of the Law and the Prophets and the New Covenant in one verse?

Seriously, unless we need to identify what sin is, what other commandments do we need? If God just wrote this in our mind and on our heart to do this without fail, with all that it includes and summarizes, what else is there? IOW we're going to have an amazingly simple existence in the future. I'm trying to understand that simplicity now, because we already have it and we are being developed in it, and we will have it.

Can you stop to imagine what the relationship within the Trinty is like? Did it ever occur to you what Jesus was going through on the cross when it appears He had to experience a separation He had never known and as I recall the Greek text, He was screaming/cried out in a "mega" voice asking why God had forsaken Him.

We have no clue what this unity really is. We just have a deposit of it. I doubt most of us even comprehend the difference between walking in Him vs. grieving & suppressing Him, let alone having any comprehension of what it's like to have His fullness. I really think He has not made it as hard as we work so hard to make it.

HIM · Sep 27, 2023

Doran said:
With all due respect to you sabattarians, I have grown so weary of the ratio of noise (foolishness) to signal (substance) of your posts that I have spent considerable time putting together the biblical timeline of events that transpired between God's promised covenant with the Israelites, its fulfillment and most importantly its content. This timeline, taken from the Book of Exodus, totally demolishes the inane theories that the Old Covenant was not a Law Covenant and SB's self-contradictory theory that also says it wasn't but, nonetheless, it somehow "included" the Ten Words, anyhow. I have very little doubt that this timeline and events that occured during this period will literally shake some people's world because the events, run counter to so many presuppositions. I'm not going say much more than this; for I know that as sure as God has made little green apples you sabbatarians are going to criticize the timeline and when you do, it will show how fast you are to depart from scripture in order to support your presuppositional traditions, i.e. "traditions of men". So for now, I'll just step out of the way and allow you guys (and gals) to fly your true colors and watch you as you try to twist, distort and pervert the Holy Word of God in order to support your theories.

Subjective fluff full of I,I,I,I,I and flaming Unsubstantiated remarks about the people and their post and views that don't align with yours. Not needed really.

Doran said:
The Timeline of Exodus from its Covenant Promise to Covenant Fulfillment to its Covenant Content

And he wrote everything in a book called The Book of The Covenant and read the Book to the people (24:7a)

Below is one of several text that show Moses making a distinction between God's covenant and what he received to teach which is called in the verse you quoted the book OF the covenant not the covenant. Moses wasn't confused no reason we should be.

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deut 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

HIM · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
No per Paul in 1Cor9:21 at minimum. God is not in conflict with God.

I could understand if you quoted Galatians. But we both know Paul is not saying "the law of Christ" here in Corinthians. All this banter in the past of cherry picking yet the phrase "law of Christ" is only used once.

And as long as there is sin in the world the old covenant which shows us what sin is, is needed. So your belief in respect 70 ad falls rather short.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
But the Law of Christ is not in accordance with all of the Law of Moses or Jesus couldn't be High Priest for one thing among many things.

The Ten Commandments is not the law of Moses, it is the law of God i.e. the commandments of God. Moses did not write the commandments of God, God did, engraved with His own finger, these are God's works, not Moses. Exo 32:16, Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13, Exo 34:28

If we have any doubt the Ten are called the commandments of God, Jesus should clear up any misunderstanding one might have about these divine commandments of God.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Jesus in His own words is quoting from the Ten calling them the commandments of God. I think Jesus is a trustworthy source so when He defines these commandments, much like God did right in the Ten calling them "My commandments" not the law of Moses we should know when we see verses like these, at a minimum include the Ten Commandments.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

GDL said:
Mosaic Covenant + Mosaic Law = Mosaic Law Covenant - the Old Covenant now vanished (for millennia).

So the greatest commandments- love to God, love to neighbor gone?

GDL said:
New Covenant + Law of Christ/Messiah = Messianic Law Covenant - the New Covenant (in place and active).

I see a lot of your words, but I have not seen this demonstrated by scripture.

GDL said:
And, no, I can't give you one verse for this, so please don't ask. It's simply reasoning through many books of the Bible and applying some terminology like was done with the Trinity doctrine.

The doctrine that everything changed in 70AD instead when scripture tells us it did at the Cross - It Is Finished Col 2:14 and what those changes were Heb 10:1-20 Hebrews 7:24 is not the same as using the word "trinity" when we are told 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one

Personally, I would be careful of making a whole doctrine out of something not supported by scripture. Especially when in doing so, deletes so much scripture meant for our instruction for correction and righteousness. We have free will, but it just seems like it is going down the wrong path

GDL said:
The specifics of obeying the commandments of God depends on what Law and Covenant is in place.

The commandments of God are kept by God's faithful as shown through scripture until the very end of time. Rev 14:12, Rev 22:14-15 We can be part of this remnant, or choose another path, but I trust the scriptures to lead us to the narrow path. Psa 119:105 which is the path Jesus tells us to take, Mat 7:13-14

GDL said:
God doesn't change so there is a consistency of righteousness and justice & love & mercy and all of God's characteristics in God's Law whether it is of pre-Moses, of Moses or of Christ.

Agreed.

GDL said:
Interestingly, I don't see where we're told that we're under the Law of Christ as the old-timers were under the Law of Moses. The subordination is now to Jesus Christ personally. Did Moses ever tell anybody to keep his commandments. Jesus certainly did. Must have something to do with His being God and our relationship being with God personally in Spirit. And the God-Man is now our God, our Great High Priest, our King, our everything and we can approach Him directly at any time, and He is in us, and we are in Him, and our Father has made His home with us, and.... Please catch up to the glory and reality we have.

You might consider your own advice regarding all of the teachings of Jesus.

GDL said:
There are many differences in the New Covenant era, but it was and is all righteous, because it was and is all of God.

NKJ 1 John3:21-24 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

You may have looked past this, but the commandment here is singular, not plural. Believing in Jesus is not passive, Jesus in His own Words said there will be many believers in that Great Day who will say Lord Lord but Jesus is not going to know them because they did not do the will of God and practiced lawlessness Mat 7:21-23 and the parallel verses are 1 John 2:3-6 Rev 22:14-15

If we believe in Jesus we would believe His Words like Matthew 15:3-9 Mark 7:6-14, Mat 19:17-19, Mat 5:19-30 John 14:15 Mat 4:4 and many others. . .

GDL said:
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

If you notice here the commandment(s) are plural, not singular.

GDL said:
Really, if we think about it, doesn't verse 23 pretty much sum up the entirety of the New Covenant Law of Christ now?

I do ,but my definition of belief in Jesus has more to do than just believing in him, but transpiring us to be live as Jesus did= living as Jesus did, following the example He gave 1 John 2:6 which includes keeping all of the commandments, including the Sabbath. Luke 4:16 John 15:10 and His followers Luke 23:56 and His disciples Acts 13:42-44 Acts 18:4 1 Cor 7:19

GDL said:
Seriously, unless we need to identify what sin is, what other commandments do we need?

Scripture does identify what sin is, we just need to believe it.

Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 and the law that defines sin is the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7, the same law we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and why it is under the mercy seat of Jesus also revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 and what the earthy temple was modeled after Hebrews 8:1-5

Which is why Jesus teaches not to break the least of these commandments or be in fear of judgement and sin. Mat 5:19-30 breaking one you break them all James 2:10-12. It really is simple- God's commandments are not meant to be grievous, but to bless. 1 John 5:3 Isa 48:18 Rev 22:14 all we need to do is believe and ask Jesus to transform us if we are struggling to obey. John 14:15-18

GDL · Sep 27, 2023

HIM said:
Subjective fluff full of I,I,I,I,I and flaming Unsubstantiated remarks about the people and their post and views that don't align with yours. Not needed really.

And there we have it, well-reasoned argumentation. Then "l,l,l,l,l" while alleging flaming by another. I suppose the "l' stands for love.

HIM said:
Below is one of several text that show Moses making a distinction between God's covenant and what he received to teach which is called in the verse you quoted the book OF the covenant not the covenant. Moses wasn't confused no reason we should be.

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deut 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

FWIW, this is another example of cherry-picking a couple verses out of their greater context (which BTW is at least 4 biblical books long) which @Doran showed to refute you in sufficient length & detail in a timeline fashion as that historical record is actually written. Even then, these verses you quote taken together show the opposite of what you interpret them to say.

As also shown to you, the Tablets are called the Tablets of the Testimony. The Tablets are a record in stone that witness to the Mosaic Covenant secured in an Ark of the Testimony, housed in the Tabernacle of the Testimony. And it's all vanished.

Any answer to this yet from post #150? Are these the same Book or different ones?

The Book of the Law 2Kings22:11; Deut28:61
The Book of the Covenant 2Kings23:2; Ex24:7
The Book of the Law of YHWH 2Chron17:9
The Law in the Book of Moses 2Chron25:4

GDL · Sep 27, 2023

HIM said:
I could understand if you quoted Galatians. But we both know Paul is not saying "the law of Christ" here in Corinthians. All this banter in the past of cherry picking yet the phrase "law of Christ" is only used once.

Actually, it's used twice in Scripture in that phrase and both times by Paul. In 1Cor9 Paul informs that he is in the Law of Christ (not under it) where there is freedom to deal with all people without the constraints of the Mosaic Covenant Law and without being in opposition to God, and in Gal6 he informs that the mature Christian can fulfill the Law of Christ by helping fellow Christians out of any sin they may be caught up in.

So, we have a walk in the Law of Christ and a fulfillment of the Law of Christ. What more is needed for a studious disciple of the Word/Gospel of Jesus Christ? Your answer could be using the Mosaic Law lawfully as instruction in righteousness in order to be able to identify any sin so you can help a brother in need to get back on the path of growing in righteousness, which BTW is James coordinated with Paul. But you'd have to rightly divide the Word of Truth and see that not observing Sabbath is not sin.

GDL · Sep 27, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
The Ten Commandments is not the law of Moses, it is the law of God i.e. the commandments of God. Moses did not write the commandments of God, God did, engraved with His own finger, these are God's works, not Moses. Exo 32:16, Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13, Exo 34:28

OK, my ears are open SB. But you'll have to put up with my million questions because you, like all of us can be using Scripture wrongly.

First, will you answer what I asked @HIM since He's ignoring the question? Please bear with me if you've already answered this. Are these Books the same Book or different ones:
1. The Book of the Law 2Kings22:11; Deut28:61
2. The Book of the Covenant 2Kings23:2; Ex24:7
3. The Book of the Law of YHWH 2Chron17:9
4. The Law in the Book of Moses 2Chron25:4
Will you look at the @Doran Timeline point by point and explain where you disagree with it?
Will you take me through Rom7 verse by verse and identify which Law Paul is speaking of each time he mentions "law", and anything contained in law?

Thanks a million, in advance for these and the remaining questions I have. Inquiring minds...

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
OK, my ears are open SB. But you'll have to put up with my million questions because you, like all of us can be using Scripture wrongly.

First, will you answer what I asked @HIM since He's ignoring the question? Please bear with me if you've already answered this. Are these Books the same Book or different ones:

The Book of the Law 2Kings22:11; Deut28:61

The Book of the Covenant 2Kings23:2; Ex24:7

The Book of the Law of YHWH 2Chron17:9

The Law in the Book of Moses 2Chron25:4

Will you look at the @Doran Timeline point by point and explain where you disagree with it?

Will you take me through Rom7 verse by verse and identify which Law Paul is speaking of each time he mentions "law", and anything contained in law?

Thanks a million, in advance for these and the remaining questions I have. Inquiring minds...

I’m confused how these scriptures changes any of the teachings of Jesus.

How many commandments did God write and speak? What commandments are placed inside the ark compared to all other statues, ordinances and other laws? What was the earthy temple patterned after? Where is the original ark that the earthy temple was a copy of.

The answers to your questions changes nothing about God’s eternal commandments kept by His faithful until He comes Rev 22:14 Rev Rev 14:12

I believe the book of the law and book of the covenant are different books and only the Ten Commandments are inside the ark, only the Ten Commandments are personally written by God as they define sin and what we will be judged by. Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 May 5:19-30 The timeline for these are eternity. Rev 22:14-15 May 5:19-30

Moses repeated the Ten Commandments 40 years later telling the Israelites to diligently keep.prior to entering Canaan. I assume Moses also recorded the Ten Commandments.

GDL · Sep 27, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
If we have any doubt the Ten are called the commandments of God, Jesus should clear up any misunderstanding one might have about these divine commandments of God.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did

I have no doubt that the 10C are the commandments of God given to Moses and to Israel and are part of the Law of Moses which is a part of the old Mosaic Covenant. I think Jesus shows us this truth in these verses.

I must ask you:

If "He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death" is in the 10C?
If "He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death" is also a commandment of God?
If the tradition of men Jesus was addressing was making ineffectual:
- The 10C commandment of God?
- The penalty commandment of God?
- Both of the above?
Why did Jesus state the 10C commandment of God and the additional commandment of God from Ex21:17; Lev20:9 to make this argument? What is He saying to these hypocrites?

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
I have no doubt that the 10C are the commandments of God given to Moses and to Israel and are part of the Law of Moses which is a part of the old Mosaic Covenant. I think Jesus shows us this truth in these verses.

I must ask you:

If "He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death" is in the 10C?

If "He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death" is also a commandment of God?

If the tradition of men Jesus was addressing was making ineffectual:

The 10C commandment of God?

The penalty commandment of God?

Both of the above?

Why did Jesus state the 10C commandment of God and the additional commandment of God from Ex21:17; Lev20:9 to make this argument? What is He saying to these hypocrites?

I’ll have to run will update with the texts later but this goes back to what Paul also says, the curse to breaking God’s commandments is death Rom 6:23. The curses are outside the ark held as a witness against for not keeping the blessings that are inside the ark. Deut 31:26 Deut 29:20-21 Gal 3:10 Deut 28:1-2

We are blessed by doing His commandments Rev 22:14 Isa 48:18

This is the whole controversy in scripture. Sin separated us from God that curse is reversed for His faithful Rev 22:14-15. The Word of God shows us how to reverse that curse through Jesus. John 14:15-18. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 not in sin. Heb 10:26-30 Jesus does not want us to sin 1 John 2:1-6

GDL · Sep 27, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I’m confused how these scriptures changes any of the teachings of Jesus.

You have a truly well-formed ability to twist what is said.

They don't change Jesus' teaching. Actually, they are Jesus' teaching. So your confusion is that you don't understand Jesus' teaching.

Either Jesus is teaching us that these people were confused, or Jesus is teaching us that these phrases all speak interchangeably of the same Book, in which case they change your teaching, because the Book of the Law is the same as the Book of the Covenant is the same as the Book of the Law of YHWH is the Book of Moses containing the Law. So, if we do some reduction the ~~Book of the~~ Law is the same as the ~~Book of the~~ Covenant is the same as the ~~Book of the~~ Law of YHWH is the Book of Moses containing the Law [which is the Covenant].

So, are the 10C in the Law which is the Covenant or are the 10C the Covenant which is the Law. If it's neither, then Jesus is teaching us these people and or the inspired writers were confused and did not understand the unity of Exodus through Deuteronomy.

GDL · Sep 27, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
How many commandments did God write and speak?

In your example from Matt15, God gave 2 commandments; one in the 10C and another related to but not in the 10C.

Jewish students of the Text centuries ago counted 613 commandments including the 10. The above is an example of how they are structured. The 10 are headings and the rest define, elaborate, detail and penalize, etc., the 10.

Some are stuck on the 10. What's Thou Shall Not without a definition and blessings or sanctions? What's a Law Covenant without Law? Thou shall not smoke! You mean meats or tobacco or no fires or something else? What happens if I do?

GDL · Sep 27, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I’ll have to run will update with the texts later

And I'll be ignoring you if you don't answer the questions in simple fashion. No offense intended, but IMO you also have a well-developed ability to use Scripture wrongly to answer simple questions non-simply. The failure in your logic will be shown both in your answering simply and in your answering wrongly with Scripture. But, answering non-simply with Scripture provides you with the path to simply accuse others of not understanding Scripture and put us on a merry-go-round with no getting off. As they say, the jig is up.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
In your example from Matt15, God gave 2 commandments; one in the 10C and another related to but not in the 10C.

Jewish students of the Text centuries ago counted 613 commandments including the 10. The above is an example of how they are structured. The 10 are headings and the rest define, elaborate, detail and penalize, etc., the 10.

Some are stuck on the 10. What's Thou Shall Not without a definition and blessings or sanctions? What's a Law Covenant without Law? Thou shall not smoke! You mean meats or tobacco or no fires or something else? What happens if I do?

Jesus was quoting directly from the Ten when He condemned those for keeping their traditions over obeying the commandments of God. When even quoting one of these commandments it means them all Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 as God placed these commandments in a unit of Ten Exo 32:16, Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 Exo 32:16 and He wrote no more to them. Deut 5:22 and no man is above God to change them, although there is someone who tries to exalt himself above God 1 John 3:8 and what better way to try and do that is to deceive the world that we do not have to obey God's holy commandments written by the finger of God same ones he broke in heaven Rev 11:19 and doing so is not sin despite clear scripture Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

Jesus is establishing a very important principle in this teaching. When we obey our rules over the commandments of God, Jesus calls that false worship. Mat 15:9 and we are told we are to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and this same principles plays out at the end of time- false worship Rev 14:11 true worship Rev 14:12- our decisions affect which side we will be on.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (Exo 20:12) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death (romans 6:23).’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
Some are stuck on the 10. What's Thou Shall Not without a definition and blessings or sanctions? What's a Law Covenant without Law? Thou shall not smoke! You mean meats or tobacco or no fires or something else? What happens if I do?

The wages of sin is death Romans 6:23, there is no condemnation if in Christ and those in Christ are not hostile to the law of God Romans 8:1-8 and blessed are those who do His commandments Rev 22:14 compared to those who do their own thing instead Rev 22:15

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
And I'll be ignoring you if you don't answer the questions in simple fashion. No offense intended, but IMO you also have a well-developed ability to use Scripture wrongly to answer simple questions non-simply. The failure in your logic will be shown both in your answering simply and in your answering wrongly with Scripture. But, answering non-simply with Scripture provides you with the path to simply accuse others of not understanding Scripture and put us on a merry-go-round with no getting off. As they say, the jig is up.

We have free will, but the baseless accusation is not a response to the scriptures I posted. There is no offensive taken, because it's hard to take seriously someone who makes a whole doctrine that essentially deletes scriptures, what we are warned about Pro 30:5-6 but says there is no scripture to support this doctrine and does not reconcile with the very Words of Jesus Mat 5:19-30, or when Jesus is quoting from the Ten Commandments only, you're talking about tassels. Jesus says to live by every Word that proceed out of the mouth of God, you say no. God says Remember, you say forget. My faith is only in Jesus in all of His Word so if you want to move on I understand, I will continue to pray for you and wish you nothing but the best.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
You have a truly well-formed ability to twist what is said.

They don't change Jesus' teaching. Actually, they are Jesus' teaching. So your confusion is that you don't understand Jesus' teaching.

Either Jesus is teaching us that these people were confused, or Jesus is teaching us that these phrases all speak interchangeably of the same Book, in which case they change your teaching, because the Book of the Law is the same as the Book of the Covenant is the same as the Book of the Law of YHWH is the Book of Moses containing the Law. So, if we do some reduction the ~~Book of the~~ Law is the same as the ~~Book of the~~ Covenant is the same as the ~~Book of the~~ Law of YHWH is the Book of Moses containing the Law [which is the Covenant].

So, are the 10C in the Law which is the Covenant or are the 10C the Covenant which is the Law. If it's neither, then Jesus is teaching us these people and or the inspired writers were confused and did not understand the unity of Exodus through Deuteronomy.

The Ten Commandments are inside the ark of the covenant- not outside. These commandments are kept until the very end of time by God's faithful Rev 14:12

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exo:20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exo 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exo 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exo 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exo 20:16). The commandments are a unit of Ten Deut 4:13, Exo 34:26 you break one commandment quoting and contrasting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12 which is why there is no truth in those who do not keep the commandments 1 John 2:4 we are only sanctified by the Truth John 17:17 all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and reflect the character of God who we are to be transformed in His image. 1 John 2:6

GDL · Sep 27, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I believe the book of the law and book of the covenant are different books

So, this is your answer to this:

Are these Books the same Book or different ones:

The Book of the Law 2Kings22:11; Deut28:61
The Book of the Covenant 2Kings23:2; Ex24:7
The Book of the Law of YHWH 2Chron17:9
The Law in the Book of Moses 2Chron25:4

Therefore, these people found more than one Book.

8 Then Hilkiah the high priest said to Shaphan the scribe, "I have found the Book of the Law in the house of the LORD." And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it. 9 So Shaphan the scribe went to the king, bringing the king word, saying, "Your servants have gathered the money that was found in the house, and have delivered it into the hand of those who do the work, who oversee the house of the LORD." 10 Then Shaphan the scribe showed the king, saying, "Hilkiah the priest has given me a book." And Shaphan read it before the king. 11 Now it happened, when the king heard the words of the Book of the Law, that he tore his clothes. 12 Then the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam the son of Shaphan, Achbor1 the son of Michaiah, Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king, saying, 13 "Go, inquire of the LORD for me, for the people and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that has been found; for great is the wrath of the LORD that is aroused against us, because our fathers have not obeyed the words of this book, to do according to all that is written concerning us." 14 So Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. (She dwelt in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter.) And they spoke with her. 15 Then she said to them, "Thus says the LORD God of Israel,`Tell the man who sent you to Me, 16 "Thus says the LORD:`Behold, I will bring calamity on this place and on its inhabitants-- all the words of the book which the king of Judah has read--17 `because they have forsaken Me and burned incense to other gods, that they might provoke Me to anger with all the works of their hands. Therefore My wrath shall be aroused against this place and shall not be quenched.'"' 18 "But as for the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the LORD, in this manner you shall speak to him,`Thus says the LORD God of Israel: "Concerning the words which you have heard--19 "because your heart was tender, and you humbled yourself before the LORD when you heard what I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they would become a desolation and a curse, and you tore your clothes and wept before Me, I also have heard you," says the LORD. 20 "Surely, therefore, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace; and your eyes shall not see all the calamity which I will bring on this place."'" So they brought back word to the king. 23:1 Now the king sent them to gather all the elders of Judah and Jerusalem to him. 2 The king went up to the house of the LORD with all the men of Judah, and with him all the inhabitants of Jerusalem-- the priests and the prophets and all the people, both small and great. And he read in their hearing all the words of the Book of the Covenant which had been found in the house of the LORD. 3 Then the king stood by a pillar and made a covenant before the LORD, to follow the LORD and to keep His commandments and His testimonies and His statutes, with all his heart and all his soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people took a stand for the covenant. (2 Ki. 22:8-23:3 NKJ)

There is one Book here as can be seen with all the singular articles and pronouns..
This one Book is called by 2 names:
1. "the Book of the Law"
2. "the Book of the Covenant"
Thus, the word "Law" and the word "Covenant" are used interchangeably in regard to this Book.
Within this Law Covenant Book there were words written that pertained to these people that they had not obeyed.
Thus, they had not obeyed the Law and the Covenant - the Law Covenant.
In this Law Covenant Book were written words of this Law Covenant which are identified as YHWH's commandments and YHWH's testimonies and YHWH's statutes.

If you cannot read and acknowledge this and explain and prove it otherwise, then your arguments begin with intellectual dishonesty and cannot proceed differently. Why should anyone listen to you?

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
So, this is your answer to this:

Are these Books the same Book or different ones:

The Book of the Law 2Kings22:11; Deut28:61

The Book of the Covenant 2Kings23:2; Ex24:7

The Book of the Law of YHWH 2Chron17:9

The Law in the Book of Moses 2Chron25:4

Therefore, these people found more than one Book.

8 Then Hilkiah the high priest said to Shaphan the scribe, "I have found the Book of the Law in the house of the LORD." And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it. 9 So Shaphan the scribe went to the king, bringing the king word, saying, "Your servants have gathered the money that was found in the house, and have delivered it into the hand of those who do the work, who oversee the house of the LORD." 10 Then Shaphan the scribe showed the king, saying, "Hilkiah the priest has given me a book." And Shaphan read it before the king. 11 Now it happened, when the king heard the words of the Book of the Law, that he tore his clothes. 12 Then the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam the son of Shaphan, Achbor1 the son of Michaiah, Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king, saying, 13 "Go, inquire of the LORD for me, for the people and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that has been found; for great is the wrath of the LORD that is aroused against us, because our fathers have not obeyed the words of this book, to do according to all that is written concerning us." 14 So Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. (She dwelt in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter.) And they spoke with her. 15 Then she said to them, "Thus says the LORD God of Israel,`Tell the man who sent you to Me, 16 "Thus says the LORD:`Behold, I will bring calamity on this place and on its inhabitants-- all the words of the book which the king of Judah has read--17 `because they have forsaken Me and burned incense to other gods, that they might provoke Me to anger with all the works of their hands. Therefore My wrath shall be aroused against this place and shall not be quenched.'"' 18 "But as for the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the LORD, in this manner you shall speak to him,`Thus says the LORD God of Israel: "Concerning the words which you have heard--19 "because your heart was tender, and you humbled yourself before the LORD when you heard what I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they would become a desolation and a curse, and you tore your clothes and wept before Me, I also have heard you," says the LORD. 20 "Surely, therefore, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace; and your eyes shall not see all the calamity which I will bring on this place."'" So they brought back word to the king. 23:1 Now the king sent them to gather all the elders of Judah and Jerusalem to him. 2 The king went up to the house of the LORD with all the men of Judah, and with him all the inhabitants of Jerusalem-- the priests and the prophets and all the people, both small and great. And he read in their hearing all the words of the Book of the Covenant which had been found in the house of the LORD. 3 Then the king stood by a pillar and made a covenant before the LORD, to follow the LORD and to keep His commandments and His testimonies and His statutes, with all his heart and all his soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people took a stand for the covenant. (2 Ki. 22:8-23:3 NKJ)

There is one Book here as can be seen with all the singular articles and pronouns..

This one Book is called by 2 names:

"the Book of the Law"

"the Book of the Covenant"

Thus, the word "Law" and the word "Covenant" are used interchangeably in regard to this Book.

Within this Law Covenant Book there were words written that pertained to these people that they had not obeyed.

Thus, they had not obeyed the Law and the Covenant - the Law Covenant.

In this Law Covenant Book were written word of this Law Covenant which are identified as YHWH's commandments and YHWH's testimonies and YHWH's statutes.

If you cannot read and acknowledge this and explain and prove it otherwise, then your arguments begin with intellectual dishonesty and cannot proceed differently. Why should anyone listen to you?

It doesn't say its the same book, you're getting hung up on semantics and missing the big picture. Either way it does not change what is inside the ark of the covenant. God's eternal Ten commandments Exo 40:20 that His faithful keep until the very end of time. Rev 14:12, Rev 22:14-15

HIM · Sep 27, 2023

GDL said:
Actually, it's used twice in Scripture and both times by Paul. In 1Cor9 Paul informs that he is in the Law of Christ

This is Sad considering you know that it doesn’t say law of Christ in 1 Corinthians 9. Unless maybe you are not aware.

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