What do you think of "The Patriot Act" 22 years later?

rturner76 · Aug 26, 2023

Hastily passed 45 days after 9/11 in the name of national security, the Patriot Act was the first of many changes to surveillance laws that made it easier for the government to spy on ordinary Americans by expanding the authority to monitor phone and email communications, collect bank and credit reporting records, and track the activity of innocent Americans on the Internet. While most Americans think it was created to catch terrorists, the Patriot Act actually turns regular citizens into suspects.

Surveillance Under the Patriot Act

Hastily passed 45 days after 9/11 in the name of national security, the Patriot Act was the first of many changes to surveillance laws that made it easier for the government to spy on ordinary Americans by expanding the authority to monitor phone and email communications, collect bank and credit...

www.aclu.org

By locking people (including American citizens) on foreign soil with no warrant, no due process, and possibly under conditions of torture, Wire tapping, credit card and bank, computer and telephone surveillance (unwarranted), have we safeguarded the tenants of the Constitution/Bill of Rights of the United States?

sandman · Aug 26, 2023

What has become known as Rahm’s rule was definitely the catalyst of the Patriot Act.

I was 10 % for it and 90% against it when it was conceived.... because I knew that it would not stay within the confines of the original intent.
When you give the government an inch laterally it will be expanded vertically with as they deem necessary ………. they have done and continue to do just that.

rturner76 · Aug 26, 2023

sandman said:
What has become known as Rahm’s rule was definitely the catalyst of the Patriot Act.

I was 10 % for it and 90% against it when it was conceived.... because I knew that it would not stay within the confines of the original intent.
When you give the government an inch laterally it will be expanded vertically with as they deem necessary ………. they have done and continue to do just that.

How has this law affected "our" freedom? Is it possible that under the right governmental leadership it could be expanded to some form of totalitarianism? More to the point , has it already done so?

MotoToTheMax · Aug 26, 2023

The rules of this forum do not allow me to accurately reflect my opinion.

SimplyMe · Aug 27, 2023

I seem to recall posting my opposition to it on these forums when it was first passed. My opinion has not changed -- though it does seem like some of those supporting it, disagreeing with me at the time, have now changed their minds.

Fantine · Aug 27, 2023

After 1/6 the FBI said our greatest threat was domestic terrorism. Maybe we really do need to protect ourselves from the enemies of democracy who are growing like weeds around our country.

Diamond72 · Aug 27, 2023

rturner76 said:
track the activity of innocent Americans on the Internet

The innocent have nothing to worry about. The bank sends us a copy of those reports. I thought it was interesting to find out what my wife does with her money. Although it use to be they had to pay someone to spy on us. Now they can get a computer program to do it and it costs them a lot less money. It cannot be that difficult to beat the algorithms. The thief is going to use them to try to get our money. It is not as if we have a choice in this. Should we be more worried about the bad guy or the people trying to catch the bad guy in their dirty deeds? Of course, there are police who think everyone is guilty because they are corrupt. So that could be an issue.

rturner76 · Aug 27, 2023

Fantine said:
After 1/6 the FBI said our greatest threat was domestic terrorism. Maybe we really do need to protect ourselves from the enemies of democracy who are growing like weeds around our country.

Is there a way to do that while still observing due process, rights to privacy, and other rights that have been eliminated in certain circumstances?

rturner76 · Aug 27, 2023

Diamond7 said:
The innocent have nothing to worry about.

How do we determine who is innocent without due process?

Pommer · Aug 27, 2023

Does it actually get used much?

durangodawood · Aug 27, 2023

It has the word "patriot" in it, so how bad could it be?

Pommer · Aug 27, 2023

durangodawood said:
It has the word "patriot" in it, so how bad could it be?

If I recall correctly the “PATRIOT” is actually an acronym for…something.
(Thank you Wikipedia, “Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism”)

Fantine · Aug 27, 2023

rturner76 said:
Is there a way to do that while still observing due process, rights to privacy, and other rights that have been eliminated in certain circumstances?

I believe a warrant is needed for most surveillance, and cause is needed for a warrant.

Diamond72 · Aug 27, 2023

rturner76 said:
How do we determine who is innocent without due process?

There is no due process until you have evidence of a crime. The police think everyone is guilty of something and I just do not believe that.

What do you think of "The Patriot Act" 22 years later?

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