Detransitioners of once minors - A regret too late & a recourse not available

IceJad · Jul 16, 2023

I seriously don't know why certain people think it is okay to allow minors to transition. I lied I know why, I just can't say it out without some people thinking of a phobic label to mark me. God forbid feelings might be hurt. I'm all for when you're a legal adult do unto yourself what you want. Because for most with age comes maturity. You're able to discern the consequences of your actions. You're better suited to adjusting mentally and emotionally to the choices you make.

Minors on the other hand are ill equipped to handle the peer pressure and authority exerted on them. And we all know how low the threshold is in western society to deem a person LGBT. A mention of I don't feel like myself is enough for teachers and medical professionals to think the worst of you. And these are the kind of people that egg the minors into all sort of permanent life altering choices. Affirming them when the minors themselves are not mentally matured to re-evaluate.

Now we are seeing a host of detransitioners. There are more than one of such videos. People who said they were wrong after they reached adulthood. Problem with de-transitioners is that there is no detransitioning. There is no biologically growing back the parts you surgically removed. There is no undoing the effect of hormones you had taken. All you're left is what you're now - sorry to say a monstrosity that you yourself can't live with.

So the question is why are the adults who affirmed the minors not being taken to task. Punished or have their licenses (teaching or medical) revoked? Silly question actually because the answer is obvious - they are protected by the administrations who are pro-lgbt agenda. And speaking up against them is akin to treason. So the detransitioners have little recourse (if any at all). The true victims.

They have my sympathies but what good are that? My feelings undo nothing. They still need to live with the choices made (made for them) till they draw their last breath.

That's why many western parents say "Leave the kids alone".

Maria Billingsley · Jul 17, 2023

IceJad said:
I seriously don't know why certain people think it is okay to allow minors to transition. I lied I know why, I just can't say it out without some people thinking of a phobic label to mark me. God forbid feelings might be hurt. I'm all for when you're a legal adult do unto yourself what you want. Because for most with age comes maturity. You're able to discern the consequences of your actions. You're better suited to adjusting mentally and emotionally to the choices you make.

Minors on the other hand are ill equipped to handle the peer pressure and authority exerted on them. And we all know how low the threshold is in western society to deem a person LGBT. A mention of I don't feel like myself is enough for teachers and medical professionals to think the worst of you. And these are the kind of people that egg the minors into all sort of permanent life altering choices. Affirming them when the minors themselves are not mentally matured to re-evaluate.

Now we are seeing a host of detransitioners. There are more than one of such videos. People who said they were wrong after they reached adulthood. Problem with de-transitioners is that there is no detransitioning. There is no biologically growing back the parts you surgically removed. There is no undoing the effect of hormones you had taken. All you're left is what you're now - sorry to say a monstrosity that you yourself can't live with.

So the question is why are the adults who affirmed the minors not being taken to task. Punished or have their licenses (teaching or medical) revoked? Silly question actually because the answer is obvious - they are protected by the administrations who are pro-lgbt agenda. And speaking up against them is akin to treason. So the detransitioners have little recourse (if any at all). The true victims.

They have my sympathies but what good are that? My feelings undo nothing. They still need to live with the choices made (made for them) till they draw their last breath.

That's why many western parents say "Leave the kids alone".

Hopefully, now with more realistic feedback available, doctors who provide such treatment might be more careful and training institutions more aware of this alarming issue. A 12 month course making one an expert is just not enough to give them a license to destroy lives. My two cents. Blessings.

Belk · Jul 17, 2023

IceJad said:
I seriously don't know why certain people think it is okay to allow minors to transition. I lied I know why, I just can't say it out without some people thinking of a phobic label to mark me. God forbid feelings might be hurt. I'm all for when you're a legal adult do unto yourself what you want. Because for most with age comes maturity. You're able to discern the consequences of your actions. You're better suited to adjusting mentally and emotionally to the choices you make.

Minors on the other hand are ill equipped to handle the peer pressure and authority exerted on them. And we all know how low the threshold is in western society to deem a person LGBT. A mention of I don't feel like myself is enough for teachers and medical professionals to think the worst of you. And these are the kind of people that egg the minors into all sort of permanent life altering choices. Affirming them when the minors themselves are not mentally matured to re-evaluate.

Now we are seeing a host of detransitioners. There are more than one of such videos. People who said they were wrong after they reached adulthood. Problem with de-transitioners is that there is no detransitioning. There is no biologically growing back the parts you surgically removed. There is no undoing the effect of hormones you had taken. All you're left is what you're now - sorry to say a monstrosity that you yourself can't live with.

So the question is why are the adults who affirmed the minors not being taken to task. Punished or have their licenses (teaching or medical) revoked? Silly question actually because the answer is obvious - they are protected by the administrations who are pro-lgbt agenda. And speaking up against them is akin to treason. So the detransitioners have little recourse (if any at all). The true victims.

They have my sympathies but what good are that? My feelings undo nothing. They still need to live with the choices made (made for them) till they draw their last breath.

That's why many western parents say "Leave the kids alone".

My parents indoctrinated me in religion. I had a very painful de-transition later in life. Therefore we should remove the right of parents to make religious choices for their children.

Strikes me as equally poor logic. "Leave the kids alone" indeed.

Hank77 · Jul 17, 2023

There are many stories from these kids. We know it takes a lot of courage to go public, so how many are silently suffering?
As parents, we are supposed to protect our children even from themselves until they are old enough to make lifelong decisions. We think that parents who allow their child to marry an adult is irresponsible. My goodness, how much more a permanent devastating life decision is hormones and surgery? Surgeries that can't be undone, voice changes that are permanent, scars that tell a story and never go away, that are a constant reminder of a bad mistake.

rambot · Jul 17, 2023

It's super easy to make a video and put it up online.

Statistics are more meaningful, aren't they though?

Pray what percent of transitioned folks WANT to detransition and revert?
Sounds like an abysmally small 3%. So suddenly your story is dumb.

You chose that circle to tell the story of reality. And that is dishonest.

I mean I can find dozens and dozens of people very happy with their transitions. It's why anecdotes ALONE should not be thr basis of opinions.

Hank77 · Jul 17, 2023

rambot said:
I mean I can find dozens and dozens of people very happy with their transitions.

You can find dozens and dozens of people who had surgeries as minors and who are very happy with their transitions?

IceJad · Jul 17, 2023

Belk said:
My parents indoctrinated me in religion. I had a very painful de-transition later in life. Therefore we should remove the right of parents to make religious choices for their children.

Strikes me as equally poor logic. "Leave the kids alone" indeed.

Sorry but that is not a permanent thing. You are able to make your own choices after you're a legal adult. Even as a minor you can in your own mind choose not to believe. Transitioning on the other hand involve permanent biological alterations. Hormone blockers, selective hormone injections and removal surgeries. None of these are reversable.

I grew up with a different religion pushed on me, but even as a minor I got a non-permanent choice to change. I was not really into my original religion even as minor. And no permanent changes was made on me. The only religions that might have permanent biological changes I can think of are Judaism & Islam with the need to circumsiced as a rite. Even that the changes are pretty benign.

So it is not apple to apple comparison.

IceJad · Jul 17, 2023

Maria Billingsley said:
Hopefully, now with more realistic feedback available, doctors who provide such treatment might be more careful and training institutions more aware of this alarming issue. A 12 month course making one an expert is just not enough to give them a license to destroy lives. My two cents. Blessings.

One may hope. However in the current social climate, I wouldn't bet on it for a penny

JSRG · Jul 17, 2023

rambot said:
It's super easy to make a video and put it up online.

Statistics are more meaningful, aren't they though?

Pray what percent of transitioned folks WANT to detransition and revert?
Sounds like an abysmally small 3%. So suddenly your story is dumb.

View attachment 333402

You chose that circle to tell the story of reality. And that is dishonest.

I mean I can find dozens and dozens of people very happy with their transitions. It's why anecdotes ALONE should not be thr basis of opinions.

Can you clarify what that chart is supposed to represent (and also where its data comes from)? Because I have no idea. There are numbers on the X- and Y-axes, but no identifier as to what the numbers are supposed to represent. Apparently it relates somehow to transgenderism, but because no context or information is presented, either in the chart or your message, I don't have the foggiest idea what it's supposed to be saying.

Pommer · Jul 17, 2023

IceJad said:
I seriously don't know why certain people think it is okay to allow minors to transition. I lied I know why, I just can't say it out without some people thinking of a phobic label to mark me. God forbid feelings might be hurt. I'm all for when you're a legal adult do unto yourself what you want. Because for most with age comes maturity. You're able to discern the consequences of your actions. You're better suited to adjusting mentally and emotionally to the choices you make.

Minors on the other hand are ill equipped to handle the peer pressure and authority exerted on them. And we all know how low the threshold is in western society to deem a person LGBT. A mention of I don't feel like myself is enough for teachers and medical professionals to think the worst of you. And these are the kind of people that egg the minors into all sort of permanent life altering choices. Affirming them when the minors themselves are not mentally matured to re-evaluate.

Now we are seeing a host of detransitioners. There are more than one of such videos. People who said they were wrong after they reached adulthood. Problem with de-transitioners is that there is no detransitioning. There is no biologically growing back the parts you surgically removed. There is no undoing the effect of hormones you had taken. All you're left is what you're now - sorry to say a monstrosity that you yourself can't live with.

So the question is why are the adults who affirmed the minors not being taken to task. Punished or have their licenses (teaching or medical) revoked? Silly question actually because the answer is obvious - they are protected by the administrations who are pro-lgbt agenda. And speaking up against them is akin to treason. So the detransitioners have little recourse (if any at all). The true victims.

They have my sympathies but what good are that? My feelings undo nothing. They still need to live with the choices made (made for them) till they draw their last breath.

That's why many western parents say "Leave the kids alone".

A timestamp would have been nice. So, @2:00 The pertinent “story” comes on after a hilarious laugh-fest over these silly gripes that ‘some people’ have, (followed by the OP’s pathos), by what I’m guessing are supposed to be “newsreaders”
“Medicine” is an art and by using science to back-it-up [YMMV], is way ahead of where society is yet ready to allow it to go. But if this art not been allowed to “practice”, we would have never known how to do open heart surgery.
Society must grow to include these folks or it risks ceasing to its ability to be a functioning society.

Belk · Jul 17, 2023

IceJad said:
Sorry but that is not a permanent thing.

So what? It is still a negative thing I regret so no one else should be able to do it.

IceJad said:
You are able to make your own choices after you're a legal adult.

You are able to make them as a kid as well. You just have a parent or guardian that can direct and guide you.

IceJad said:
Even as a minor you can in your own mind choose not to believe. Transitioning on the other hand involve permanent biological alterations. Hormone blockers, selective hormone injections and removal surgeries. None of these are reversable.

Therefore IceJad has determined you should not have the option.

IceJad said:
I grew up with a different religion pushed on me, but even as a minor I got a non-permanent choice to change. I was not really into my original religion even as minor. And no permanent changes was made on me. The only religions that might have permanent biological changes I can think of are Judaism & Islam with the need to circumsiced as a rite. Even that the changes are pretty benign.

Get a circumcision, and then tell me it is benign.

IceJad said:
So it is not apple to apple comparison.

It is an apple to apple comparison because the thing being compared is anecdotal data being used to remove someone else's ability to make a choice.

SeventhFisherofMen · Jul 17, 2023

rambot said:

I too like graphs with no context. How again does a y axis of around 175 and an x axis of around 110 equate to "only 3% of transitioned minors regret their decision?"

Also if we're playing the numbers game what is the 3% of? If we're talking about the number of youth that have transitioned lets look at that. So according to this article by Reuters "Overall, the analysis found that at least 121,882 children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria from 2017 through 2021...Over the last five years, there were at least 4,780 adolescents who started on puberty blockers and had a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis."

So let's play the numbers game and be generous that somehow since 2021 the number of transitioned youth has somehow just stayed at 4,780 (highly doubt the number just stayed there for 2 whole years, especially with such a push for said transitions by school staff). Let's do some math, 3% of 4,780 kids equals 143 kids. These are kids that regret what they've done. How would you like to be unable to go back to being your biologically assigned gender? How would you like it if when regretting this decision someone said "well it's only 143 kids who cares" kinda sad to be honest. At what percent do we decide to care?

Now take into account that it's not that small number and the stats have increased since 2021, how long before we realize "dang maybe this is something that like smoking and alchohol should be reserved for the age of adult hood like idk 21 (or never imo).

IceJad · Jul 17, 2023

SeventhFisherofMen said:
Now take into account that it's not that small number and the stats have increased since 2021, how long before we realize "dang maybe this is something that like smoking and alchohol should be reserved for the age of adult hood like idk 21 (or never imo).

For me I'll say 18 is good of an age for it. 21 seems slightly too long for people who are determined and have accepted all considerations.

IceJad · Jul 17, 2023

Belk said:
So what? It is still a negative thing I regret so no one else should be able to do it.

You are able to make them as a kid as well. You just have a parent or guardian that can direct and guide you.

Therefore IceJad has determined you should not have the option.

Get a circumcision, and then tell me it is benign.

It is an apple to apple comparison because the thing being compared is anecdotal data being used to remove someone else's ability to make a choice.

I think you're missing the points, the magnitude of the consequences of certain things can't be left to a minor nor people who wants the minor to experience them. Every functioning nation on earth have a legal framework to protect minors against things that are legal to adults. It is just that simple. So YES minors can't have all options available to them and NO it is not I who determined it. Crystal I hope.

So let's play a game I call same logic different scenario. In this world there are many child brides. Too many imho. Many of them never grew up to regret the marriage and even have a relatively happy life with their spouse. I said so because there is no substantial numbers reported of child brides coming forward after they reached adulthood. However of the many that did come out, we see the damage done. That's why many nations set a LEGAL age for marriage even if the child consented to it.

And there should be consequences to any adult that persuaded or affirmed the child's decisions. Whether the later outcome is a happy one or horrid one, that shouldn't be a determining factor. There are certain doors that must not be opened.

So YES we limit what options are available to minors. I don't think it is even a contentious stand to make.

Belk · Jul 18, 2023

IceJad said:
I think you're missing the points, the magnitude of the consequences of certain things can't be left to a minor nor people who wants the minor to experience them.

With you so far.

IceJad said:
Every functioning nation on earth have a legal framework to protect minors against things that are legal to adults.

Some things, agreed.

IceJad said:
It is just that simple. So YES minors can't have all options available to them and NO it is not I who determined it. Crystal I hope.

This is where you lose me. Are you claiming it is not you who determined the framework or not you who claims this should be off limit to minors?

Agree with the former. Disagree with the latter.

IceJad said:
So let's play a game I call same logic different scenario. In this world there are many child brides. Too many imho. Many of them never grew up to regret the marriage and even have a relatively happy life with their spouse. I said so because there is no substantial numbers reported of child brides coming forward after they reached adulthood. However of the many that did come out, we see the damage done. That's why many nations set a LEGAL age for marriage even if the child consented to it.

Except in the case where their parent or guardian agree to it.

IceJad said:
And there should be consequences to any adult that persuaded or affirmed the child's decisions. Whether the later outcome is a happy one or horrid one, that shouldn't be a determining factor. There are certain doors that must not be opened.

For the parent as well?

IceJad said:
So YES we limit what options are available to minors. I don't think it is even a contentious stand to make.

You are correct. That is not a contentious stand. The contention comes in when you feel you should make the medical decisions instead of their parents with the consultation of doctors. THAT is where we disagree. That is the piece I keep bringing up that you have not addressed. You use of anecdotes of people having regrets which you go on to say the procedure should be off limits.

FireDragon76 · Jul 18, 2023

You can find people with regrets everywhere. This is really about pushing an anti-trans narrative. The vast majority of people who transition have improved psychosocial functioning and are happier.

Hank77 · Jul 19, 2023

IceJad said:
For me I'll say 18 is good of an age for it. 21 seems slightly too long for people who are determined and have accepted all considerations.

I think 21 is better. From the videos I have watched it's around this age when most of the detransitioners realize their (their parent's) mistake before that they are still young and hopeful. At 18 they are finally on their own when they can make their own choices about how to live. Maybe they are free for the first time from abusive parents, bullying at school, etc. really anything that made them feel bad about themselves. I think it would be helpful to give them a couple of years to grow into their own person to maybe like who they are and then make such a dramatic decision.

It's grotesque and monstrous that we allow and help teenagers to maim their bodies.

Pommer · Jul 19, 2023

SeventhFisherofMen said:
Now take into account that it's not that small number and the stats have increased since 2021, how long before we realize "dang maybe this is something that like smoking and alchohol should be reserved for the age of adult hood like idk 21 (or never imo).

There had been several states that lowered their “drinking age” to 18 (some were even 16yoa for beer); after the insurance folk balked, the feds tied federal Highway funds to regulations that severely limited monies to states that had under 21 drinking laws.

Detransitioners of once minors - A regret too late & a recourse not available

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