Salvation by faith alone is NOT the gospel.

Neostarwcc · Jul 9, 2023

This may come as a shock since I'm a Reformed Evangelical Christian (A member of the PCA) and most Evangelicals will condemn the Catholic Church or other historical churches that reject the Biblical claim of salvation by faith alone but yet, I don't agree with this analogy.

Like all Protestants I do agree that Salvation is by faith alone, by God's grace alone, to the glory of God alone.

However I do reject Evangelical Protestants (especially Evangelical and Reformed Baptists believe this) who claim that denominations that claim that the gospel is by faith alone and ANY other church that denies this denies the gospel and is therefore cursed. When Paul said that those who preach a different gospel are cursed what gospel did the Apostles teach? It wasn't that salvation was by faith alone. It was that Jesus was fully man and fully God. It was that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again on the 3rd day according to the scriptures. It was that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were all God. Basically the gospel can be found in the Nicene creed. Those churches that adhere to the Nicene creed are in fact, true churches. Those who reject the Nicene creed though, are NOT true churches and THOSE are the heretical, accursed, and damned churches. You know, like the Jehovahs witnesses, Mormons, Muslims...etc. NOT the Catholic Church or other historical churches from it.

I mean, think about it. The Protestant idea of faith alone and predestination started with a Catholic Theologian named St. Augustine. In fact, much of Calvinists agree with Augustines work when Augustine was in fact Catholic.

I mean, to those who believe that all churches who don't adhere to the doctrine of faith alone my Reformed Evangelical brothers answer me this. If nobody was saved from after the Apostles died until Luther was born how can God save more people greater than the stars in the sky? That's like the main thing we Calvinist Evagelicals adhere to is that God promised Abraham countless descendants. I mean, we're talking nearly 1,500 years of missed history here from the extinction of the apostles to Martin Luther. What these Evangelical Baptists are saying is that NOBODY during that nearly 1,500 year period was saved. Because, nobody knew about the doctrine of Faith alone back then. Luther was the one that started it and while it is Biblical, it's NOT the gospel.

HTacianas · Jul 9, 2023

Neostarwcc said:
This may come as a shock since I'm a Reformed Evangelical Christian (A member of the PCA) and most Evangelicals will condemn the Catholic Church or other historical churches that reject the Biblical claim of salvation by faith alone but yet, I don't agree with this analogy.

Like all Protestants I do agree that Salvation is by faith alone, by God's grace alone, to the glory of God alone.

However I do reject Evangelical Protestants (especially Evangelical and Reformed Baptists believe this) who claim that denominations that claim that the gospel is by faith alone and ANY other church that denies this denies the gospel and is therefore cursed. When Paul said that those who preach a different gospel are cursed what gospel did the Apostles teach? It wasn't that salvation was by faith alone. It was that Jesus was fully man and fully God. It was that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again on the 3rd day according to the scriptures. It was that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were all God. Basically the gospel can be found in the Nicene creed. Those churches that adhere to the Nicene creed are in fact, true churches. Those who reject the Nicene creed though, are NOT true churches and THOSE are the heretical, accursed, and damned churches. You know, like the Jehovahs witnesses, Mormons, Muslims...etc. NOT the Catholic Church or other historical churches from it.

I mean, think about it. The Protestant idea of faith alone and predestination started with a Catholic Theologian named St. Augustine. In fact, much of Calvinists agree with Augustines work when Augustine was in fact Catholic.

I mean, to those who believe that all churches who don't adhere to the doctrine of faith alone my Reformed Evangelical brothers answer me this. If nobody was saved from after the Apostles died until Luther was born how can God save more people greater than the stars in the sky? That's like the main thing we Calvinist Evagelicals adhere to is that God promised Abraham countless descendants. I mean, we're talking nearly 1,500 years of missed history here from the extinction of the apostles to Martin Luther. What these Evangelical Baptists are saying is that NOBODY during that nearly 1,500 year period was saved. Because, nobody knew about the doctrine of Faith alone back then. Luther was the one that started it and while it is Biblical, it's NOT the gospel.

Actually it's not "biblical". If it was it would have been taught by the apostles to all of the Churches they founded. But none of the Apostolic Churches hold to that idea.

d taylor · Jul 9, 2023

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If you want God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a born again child of God. The only way to receive Eternal Life is by belief in Jesus. So the one condition God has set is faith in Jesus, if someone thinks there are other conditions. List the verses stating the other conditions to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

BobRyan · Jul 9, 2023

Neostarwcc said:
I mean, think about it. The Protestant idea of faith alone and predestination started with a Catholic Theologian

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law."

Was Paul a Catholic Theologian in Rom 3:27??

HTacianas · Jul 10, 2023

BobRyan said:
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law."

Was Paul a Catholic Theologian in Rom 3:27??

Actually you might say that he was. Christianity has never taught that we have to fulfill the works of the law.

Maria Billingsley · Jul 10, 2023

Neostarwcc said:
This may come as a shock since I'm a Reformed Evangelical Christian (A member of the PCA) and most Evangelicals will condemn the Catholic Church or other historical churches that reject the Biblical claim of salvation by faith alone but yet, I don't agree with this analogy.

Like all Protestants I do agree that Salvation is by faith alone, by God's grace alone, to the glory of God alone.

However I do reject Evangelical Protestants (especially Evangelical and Reformed Baptists believe this) who claim that denominations that claim that the gospel is by faith alone and ANY other church that denies this denies the gospel and is therefore cursed. When Paul said that those who preach a different gospel are cursed what gospel did the Apostles teach? It wasn't that salvation was by faith alone. It was that Jesus was fully man and fully God. It was that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again on the 3rd day according to the scriptures. It was that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were all God. Basically the gospel can be found in the Nicene creed. Those churches that adhere to the Nicene creed are in fact, true churches. Those who reject the Nicene creed though, are NOT true churches and THOSE are the heretical, accursed, and damned churches. You know, like the Jehovahs witnesses, Mormons, Muslims...etc. NOT the Catholic Church or other historical churches from it.

I mean, think about it. The Protestant idea of faith alone and predestination started with a Catholic Theologian named St. Augustine. In fact, much of Calvinists agree with Augustines work when Augustine was in fact Catholic.

I mean, to those who believe that all churches who don't adhere to the doctrine of faith alone my Reformed Evangelical brothers answer me this. If nobody was saved from after the Apostles died until Luther was born how can God save more people greater than the stars in the sky? That's like the main thing we Calvinist Evagelicals adhere to is that God promised Abraham countless descendants. I mean, we're talking nearly 1,500 years of missed history here from the extinction of the apostles to Martin Luther. What these Evangelical Baptists are saying is that NOBODY during that nearly 1,500 year period was saved. Because, nobody knew about the doctrine of Faith alone back then. Luther was the one that started it and while it is Biblical, it's NOT the gospel.

God's grace existed from the very beginning. The path to His grace is through faith. Grace is the Gift and Faith is the way to attain the Gift. The Gift is Salvation. The deliverer of this Gift is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The outcome of this Gift is His Holy Spirit dwelling( making His Home in us) in the believer. No Holy Spirit, no salvation. No faith, no Holy Spirit. No mystery.
Unrelated to grace and faith is Predestination. This is a man made doctrine, Augustine, rooted in Calvinism and continues to cause a stumbling block to Christians. Blessings.

BobRyan · Jul 10, 2023

HTacianas said:
Actually you might say that he was. Christianity has never taught that we have to fulfill the works of the law.

Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.

James 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators. 10 For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do murder, you have become a violator of the Law. 12 So speak, and so act, as those who are to be judged by the law of freedom.

"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? on the contrary we establish the Law" Rom 3:31

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Where "The first commandment with a promise - is Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2 in that still-valid unit of TEN that is included in the Law of God "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-12

HTacianas · Jul 11, 2023

BobRyan said:
Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.

James 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators. 10 For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do murder, you have become a violator of the Law. 12 So speak, and so act, as those who are to be judged by the law of freedom.

"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? on the contrary we establish the Law" Rom 3:31

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Where "The first commandment with a promise - is Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2 in that still-valid unit of TEN that is included in the Law of God "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-12

Those are not the works of the law. If you go back and read Leviticus you'll find what the works of the law are. It's the same as asking what is the difference between the requirements of Christianity and Judaism. Judaism requires works such as epaphs of flour donated to the temple, washing clothing in water if it becomes defiled, standing on the street corner until sundown if a person has become ritually defiled. None of those works of the law are any part of Christianity.

BobRyan · Jul 11, 2023

HTacianas said:
Those are not the works of the law. If you go back and read Leviticus you'll find what the works of the law are. It's the same as asking what is the difference between the requirements of Christianity and Judaism. Judaism requires works such as epaphs of flour donated to the temple, washing clothing in water if it becomes defiled, standing on the street corner until sundown if a person has become ritually defiled. None of those works of the law are any part of Christianity.

There is only "One Gospel" as we see in Gal 1:6-9, and that one and only Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 which is exactly how it is that we see Moses and Elijah standing with Christ in glory - even BEFORE the cross - in Matt 17

HTacianas · Jul 11, 2023

BobRyan said:
There is only "One Gospel" as we see in Gal 1:6-9, and that one and only Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 which is exactly how it is that we see Moses and Elijah standing with Christ in glory - even BEFORE the cross - in Matt 17

So does that mean we are required to perform the works of the law or that we are not required to perform the works of the law?

Aviel · Jul 11, 2023

Neostarwcc said:
It wasn't that salvation was by faith alone. It was that Jesus was fully man and fully God. It was that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again on the 3rd day according to the scriptures.

Paul teaches "Grace through Faith".

His Gospel is "The Gospel of the GRACE of God".

"Grace through Faith".

Lost Witness · Jul 12, 2023

Being a Child of GOD is his doing
Got nothing to do with any denomination or creed.
Nothing anyone has made.
It's all him

Hawkins · Jul 13, 2023

That ties to the components a covenant is made of. Basically, a covenant is composed of Grace, Law, Commandments and others such as promises. In OT commandments are enforced as Law. In NT, the Law part is minimized while with God's Grace maximized. Love is always on top of the commandments included in a covenants, just as Jesus put,

Matthew 22:37-38:
Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
This is the first and greatest commandment."

The question boils down to, do today's human love God and each other enough, as specified by commandments and even Law?

More practically speaking, NT is about how humans are saved through faith in Jesus, in terms of which element of a covenant actually saves.

On the other hand, we need to strive for holiness as commanded, as a sign of being saved. Holiness basically means how much we are like God and Jesus Christ. God is love, the more we are like God the more we should love God and each other.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 13, 2023

The latest statistics show that only 40% of all Evangelicals who profess Christianity believe they are saved because they repented and received Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

60% of Evangelicals believe they are saved for other reasons, such as living a good life, obeying the Law, loving others, being members of the "correct" church, or holding to the "true" translation of the Bible.

It can be argued that in the United States, the percentage of those who have truly repented and received Christ as Saviour as the basis of their Christian profession is even lower. It is very difficult to find an Evangelical church that actually preaches the true Gospel of Christ - that Jesus suffered and died on the Cross, shed His blood, to pay our debt of sin.

Markie Boy · Jul 15, 2023

I do believe modern evangelicalism has focused on Faith Alone too much. Our initial salvation is by faith. Believe, repent, be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Sure, the thief on the cross probably wasn't baptized. But I hear modern preachers teach you don't have to be baptized. Why on God's green earth would you teach against what God's word says to do? Because it's Faith Alone - gone too far.

Initial salvation is by Faith - and you are saved and enter the Kingdom. But then there is some obedience that has to come, and fruit that should be produced. We have to choose to Abide in Him. In Matthew Jesus says if we forgive others, our Father will forgive us, but if we do not, Our Father will not forgive our sins. None of us are perfect, and being forgiven is essential to salvation. To receive forgiveness, we must forgive - that's doing something - not mental Faith Alone.

I heard a Baptist pastor say someone could "get saved", and never show any fruit their whole life, and still be saved. We are commanded to love one another - that should show.

I am currently without a church home, so I'm not bound by any denominational teaching - but I think Faith Alone has take too much of the spot light, to the point of it not really being Biblical. Where in the New Testament does it say "Have faith, and do nothing else" as a command. Only one time in all Scripture do the words Faith Alone appear in James - and there the Holy Spirit inspired the writer to put the word Not in front of them.

It's time to start to focus on "Faith working, through love" as the Christian motto, not Faith Alone.

Salvation by faith alone is NOT the gospel.

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.

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