(Serious Question) Since Holy Angels can appear as men, Fallen Angels can also appear as men ?

No they cannot ....they an oppress and possess but cannot take the form of man.

They did in Genesis 6

sandman said:

No they cannot ....they an oppress and possess but cannot take the form of man.

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Not here to say they can or can't but.. I need chapter and verse for that. See what you said there is no verse for its like saying fallen angels are demons. There is no scripture for that. What demons can possess and move things around and even appear yet fallen angel can't?

Lets talk about when Christ a human walked this earth. Who took Him to a very high MTN top? Yeah Satan anyway.. greater is He that is in us then he thats in the world. Always focus on Christ

d taylor said:

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They did in Genesis 6

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That is true ...I was going to write " anymore" on my post but I thought it would solicit questions ...But since you made the statement....I will respond with God put a stop to that
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

I bet during the end times / apocalypse we'll see a bunch of them.

The ones that come up out of the bottomless pit in Revelation etc.

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There is one idea i have hear before. That the antichirst may be a product satan having a sexual encounter with a women and she birth this person.

So basically the antichrist may be a nephilim like in Genesis 6.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

Holy Angels can appear as men to help us on earth.

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true

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

I wonder if the bad ones also appear in order to harass us, deceive us and pull us away from God etc.

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true.

In fact Satan can appear as Christ and his fellow fallen angels can appear as angels coming to earth with "Christ" who is in fact a false Christ - Satan "as a being of light" - Satan appearing as Christ.

2 Cor 11:12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness.

2 Thess 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

Matt 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect

The ultimate false Christ - the one that could have a very good chance of deceiving even the very elect - is the one that comes as a bright and shiny Christ appearing in the heavens surrounded by a lot of bright and shining angels.

But as you also say - they can appear as normal humans or as Rev 16 says - they can appear as "frog-like" beings. To be "like frogs" does not mean they appear to BE frogs. Rather they appear to have some feature like a frog's feature in some aspect of their appearance.

Rev 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”) 16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

sandman said:

No they cannot ....they an oppress and possess but cannot take the form of man.

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No text says that.

sandman said:

No they cannot ....they an oppress and possess but cannot take the form of man.

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I believe you are talking about two types of beings. There are fallen Angels and then there are demons and evil spirits. When Jesus walked the earth the text shows that casting out demons was his most prolific activity.

Why were there so many demon possessions back then? Where did the demons come from?

In Genesis 6, when the fallen angels had children with human women, it was their offspring that were nephilim. And there were so many of them that God decided to wipe them all out with the flood. And when the flood killed off all flesh on earth, the Nephilim spirits could not be redeemed or go to heaven so their spirits were doomed to wander earth with no house to live in (body).

Jesus was casting out demons right and left. In their spirit form they cant really do much. But if they are invitied in, and possess a person then it's like they become superhuman. But I don't believe that the nephilim spirits can take the form of a man. The fallen angels probably can take the form of a man or an angel of light, so be careful and test those spirits!

The Book of Enoch has a lot of text about where the demons came from and so forth. It's not canon but shouldn't be treated as such. But it does paint brushstrokes into the bigger picture.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

Holy Angels can appear as men to help us on earth.

I wonder if the bad ones also appear in order to harass us, deceive us and pull us away from God etc.

What do you all think ? Any thoughts ?

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I don't see them as needing to, though I won't say that they can't. They do the most damage through real humans, and the evil can be seen in the multitude of individuals doing the bidding of the evil one.

Divide said:

I believe you are talking about two types of beings. There are fallen Angels and then there are demons and evil spirits.

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They are the same thing.

"The devil" as we see in Rev 12- is "Satan". He is a fallen Angel.

What we call "demons" are fallen angels.

Divide said:

In Genesis 6, when the fallen angels had children with human women, it was their offspring that were nephilim

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Not true.

Genesis 6 says that the Nephilim where there BEFORE the sons of God (Children of Seth) intermarried with the daughters of men (daughters of Cain).

John 1:12 "to as many as received Him - to them He gave the right to be called the Sons of God"

Genesis also says that the Nephilim got off the boat with Noah - they are there AFTER the flood as well. Because Noah himself was Nephilim.

Abraham does not complain at all about the inhabitants of the land of Canaan -- since he himself is of comparable size. So also Isaac and Jacob do not complain at all that their neighbors were of a different size ...; they are all the same size.

But 430 years later when Moses shows up with Israel newly freed from Egypt - they immediately complain about the size difference. The people in Canaan retained that size (to a greater extent) and the people living for 430 years in Egypt lost it to a degree.

Divide said:

The Book of Enoch has a lot of text about where the demons came from and so forth. It's not canon

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Indeed it is not. It is not canon and it is not written by Enoch -- So we take a lot of that with a grain of salt. It was not written by Enoch. It did not exist at the time of the major prophets of the OT.

BobRyan said:

They are the same thing.

"The devil" as we see in Rev 12- is "Satan". He is a fallen Angel.

What we call "demons" are fallen angels.

Not true.

Genesis 6 says that the Nephilim where there BEFORE the sons of God (Children of Seth) intermarried with the daughters of men (daughters of Cain).

John 1:12 "to as many as received Him - to them He gave the right to be called the Sons of God"

Genesis also says that the Nephilim got off the boat with Noah - they are there AFTER the flood as well. Because Noah himself was Nephilim.

Abraham does not complain at all about the inhabitants of the land of Canaan -- since he himself is of comparable size. So also Isaac and Jacob do not complain at all that their neighbors were of a different size ...; they are all the same size.

But 430 years later when Moses shows up with Israel newly freed from Egypt - they immediately complain about the size difference. The people in Canaan retained that size (to a greater extent) and the people living for 430 years in Egypt lost it to a degree.


Indeed it is not. It is not canon and it is not written by Enoch -- So we take a lot of that with a grain of salt. It was not written by Enoch. It did not exist at the time of the major prophets of the OT.

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So you don't read or study the Bible at all then? Because you have several errors very plain to see. You can believe what you want to believe, but rabbit trails away from the issue isn't going to edify anyone, lol.

I wont argue this stuff with you. Not why I'm here. But I promise you that if you use a online Concordance like the Blueletterbible.com site that your study would progress much faster.

BobRyan said:

Genesis 6 says that the Nephilim where there BEFORE the sons of God (Children of Seth) intermarried with the daughters of men (daughters of Cain).

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Oh Please.

The command to not marry thr Caananite women didn't even get handed down until 5 chapters later!!!

Your study has been very shallow.

Divide said:

Oh Please.

The command to not marry thr Caananite women didn't even get handed down until 5 chapters later!!!

.

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Clean and unclean animals are held in distinction to each other in Gen 7 and 8 - yet Moses does not tell the reader what that distinction is until (some other book --- so then not even IN the book of Genesis) -- not until Lev 11 does the reader find out what that is.

Your idea that God can't possibly know about moral imperatives in Genesis but has to wait until later to find them out - is a remarkably shallow argument.

Both OT and NT command against mixed marriages composed of faith and non-faith partners. This was no secret in either OT or NT.

And in Matt 22 Jesus tells us that Angels do not even form family groups with THEMSELVES let alone the wildly imaginative fictional stories about angels forming family units with other species.

Divide said:

So you don't read or study the Bible at all then?

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Quite the opposite - in fact I prefer the sola scriptura method. Not the sola-fiction one.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

Satan himself can possess people (Judas) and he is a fallen angel so fallen angels Can possess people.

That makes me think that demons are in fact fallen angels.

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True.

And the DEVIL - is SATAN in Rev 12. So then DEMONS are angels since in Rev 12 "Satan and his angels" are at war with God.

BobRyan said:

Clean and unclean animals are held in distinction to each other in Gen 7 and 8 - yet Moses does not tell the reader what that distinction is until (some other book --- so then not even IN the book of Genesis) -- not until Lev 11 does the reader find out what that is.

Your idea that God can't possibly know about moral imperatives in Genesis but has to wait until later to find them out - is a remarkably shallow argument.

Both OT and NT command against mixed marriages composed of faith and non-faith partners. This was no secret in either OT or NT.

And in Matt 22 Jesus tells us that Angels do not even form family groups with THEMSELVES let alone the wildly imaginative fictional stories about angels forming family units with other species.



Quite the opposite - in fact I prefer the sola scriptura method. Not the sola-fiction one.

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You sound like you have never seriously studied any of that.

BobRyan said:

True.

And the DEVIL - is SATAN in Rev 12. So then DEMONS are angels since in Rev 12 "Satan and his angels" are at war with God.

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Satan is a fallen angel. The fallen angels are also fallen angels.

So in the NT, why is that Jesus didn't go around casting out fallen angels?
Jesus casted out demons and evil spirits. They are distinctly different from fallen angels in that they are a hybrid being of half fallen angel and ha;f white girl (Lol).

So they called their offspring, Nephilim and the were bound to the earth as unredeemable. They can never go to heaven. SO when God caused a flood to kill all flesh on earth, this included the Nephilim who were living at the time (A lot from what I hear).

So thier spirits could not go to heaven when they died in their flesh body in the flood. So their spirits had to wander the earth. These same became the very demons and evil spirits that everyone was having so much problem with in those days.

Jesus did more casting out eveil spirits than any other miracle he did. And this is where the different from fallen angels beings came from.

If those Nephilim spirits are not in possession of a body to possess then they are fairly benign, though still very evil. But when they possess someone then it's like they become superhuman in abilities so do be careful to not open any doors which would invite them to possess you.

Uh-Oh, I forgot. Talking about people being possessed by demons is not politically correct, and could be even rude! But what can a man do? Would you that I offend with the truth or comfort with lies?