Are we salvation cult?

timewerx said:

It all goes down to this - saving our souls. The bait of converting people to Christianity.

But I don't think this isn't what Christians should be going crazy about. They quickly jump into action out of extreme fear their loved ones might go to hell tomorrow if they die or they go to hell or lose their heavenly mansions if they die without leading a single soul to Christ.

The panic to jump into action to try to save souls from hell is what makes them miss the more important things - the Truth, the knowledge that sets free. And if they have no truth, doesn't it make them a false teacher, spreading false teachings and not even knowing it.

How Jesus said it simply, the Truth will set you free. The knowledge of it, the words of God.

On the other hands, He gave us a stern warning - whoever tries to save their life will lose it - Luke 17:33 and I don't think this message only encompass our life here on Earth (flesh) but our desire to have eternal lives.

Because both the desire of keeping ourselves alive or the senseless fear of losing our lives, including forfeiting eternal salvation can blind us to the truth. This senseless fear, the lack of courage, cowardice, will make us open to false teachings.

Does anyone realize how very corruptible even the most devout Christian if their lives and the lives of loved ones are threatened? That we are prepared to accept any solution without checking or testing it as long as it saves us from death?

I think this is what Christianity has become. Too afraid to look back to see what we have missed too paralyzed by fear to even check if the path is leading to a cliff. Or too blinded by the reward of eternal life, it has become a false god.

I fear we are still no different from the Pharisees. They try to gain salvation with works while we try to gain salvation by accepting God's Grace. They're both salvation-centric delusions. No care for the truth. Which is the irony because if you have no truth, you have no salvation as well.

Thus, if you seek to save your life (both this life and your soul), you lose it - Luke 17:33. Because you're setting your priorities wrong, very wrong.

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Luke_ 17:33 Id speaking in regards to the Day of the Lord period.

Salvation by GRACE is one of the greatest miracles brought about by God through the accomplishments of Jesus Christ…. .
How the new birth is represented by Christians, varies… but I don’t want to diminish that in any way.

timewerx said:

Yet, I don't think most Christians believe it.

If they have accepted this *precious* *free* gift, then why can't they freely help a brother or sister in need? They might if it's only convenient or if they may get something in return.

Thus they cannot give something truly precious away for free as Christ did for us.

Jesus gave parables in this regard and it's not good news to many who call themselves "Christian".

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I agree ....that is why I included the words "how the new birth is represented"
Any new person I witness to ....I am committed to under-shepherding them for as long as it takes ....or as long as they want.
It should never be a numbers game, it's always and individual commitment.

timewerx said:

If they have accepted this *precious* *free* gift, then why can't they freely help a brother or sister in need? They might if it's only convenient or if they may get something in return.

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Perhaps they don't understand that this free gift is entry to a new world based upon rejection of this one. It seems many want it both ways, a world that runs contrary to this one while living life to the fullest based on the self serving ways of mankind. We can't have it both ways claiming to love all as self while living for self.

timewerx said:

It all goes down to this - saving our souls. The bait of converting people to Christianity.

But I don't think this isn't what Christians should be going crazy about. They quickly jump into action out of extreme fear their loved ones might go to hell tomorrow if they die or they go to hell or lose their heavenly mansions if they die without leading a single soul to Christ.

The panic to jump into action to try to save souls from hell is what makes them miss the more important things - the Truth, the knowledge that sets free. And if they have no truth, doesn't it make them a false teacher, spreading false teachings and not even knowing it.

How Jesus said it simply, the Truth will set you free. The knowledge of it, the words of God.

On the other hands, He gave us a stern warning - whoever tries to save their life will lose it - Luke 17:33 and I don't think this message only encompass our life here on Earth (flesh) but our desire to have eternal lives.

Because both the desire of keeping ourselves alive or the senseless fear of losing our lives, including forfeiting eternal salvation can blind us to the truth. This senseless fear, the lack of courage, cowardice, will make us open to false teachings.

Does anyone realize how very corruptible even the most devout Christian if their lives and the lives of loved ones are threatened? That we are prepared to accept any solution without checking or testing it as long as it saves us from death?

I think this is what Christianity has become. Too afraid to look back to see what we have missed too paralyzed by fear to even check if the path is leading to a cliff. Or too blinded by the reward of eternal life, it has become a false god.

I fear we are still no different from the Pharisees. They try to gain salvation with works while we try to gain salvation by accepting God's Grace. They're both salvation-centric delusions. No care for the truth. Which is the irony because if you have no truth, you have no salvation as well.

Thus, if you seek to save your life (both this life and your soul), you lose it - Luke 17:33. Because you're setting your priorities wrong, very wrong.

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Go into all the world. What was the point? To save them. What did Christ say? He came to call the sinner to repent that has not every changed. It is always was about saving man. What did Christ say? I didn't come to condemn the world but to save it. So the simple fact that we pass by people every day and do we share Christ or nothing? Do we care? For God so loved the world. Think God left heaven became His own creation took all the punishment when the world hated Him yet He died.

Christianity is for me means "Christ like". The fact we were not promised tomorrow so talking to someone and not sharing Christ.. they could be gone the next min after and we didn't share Christ? Fear.. God has not given us the spirit of fear yes its a spirit and fear is not of God.

Now no offense but its not about what you think. Christ told us to take His word to the world.. this is what Israel was to do even before Christ came.. its always about saving. Sin pulls us away from Him....so we are here to call the sinner to repent..

Blade said:

He came to call the sinner to repent that has not every changed. It is always was about saving man. What did Christ say?

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And Jesus did not say save ourselves. We could not for we were incapable of freeing the world of adversarial ways. He came with simple good news that no man could build a religion around without perverting it. That good news was that the war between God and the powers of the fallen and adversarial mankind was coming to an end and God would reign over Heaven and in earth. What did man do? Turned around and made it about ourselves and what was in it for us, in true self centered fashion which had made us adversarial to the will of God all along. Man even built a religion with a new gospel based on a man who went independent after seeing no future for himself in the Sanhedrin. Man built yet another institution modeled on the world and all its rituals and human introspect rather than the truth Jesus said would be the foundation His church would be built upon, but which man found of no use in it's original form to create yet another government over the masses.

timewerx said:

Obviously. Like what's the point of all these if nobody gets saved in the end?

The problem I mention is that many Christian are unable to see beyond the salvation message. They are stuck there and unable to move beyond it.

They let obsession with self-preservation corrupt their understanding of scriptures.

This is probably why Jesus said, those who seek to save their lives will lose it because they will fail to see / know the truth. The truth will set you free. If you have no truth then you will not be set free (from being slave to this world and to Satan).

Yes Jesus said, those who repent will be saved but those who seek to save their lives will lose it (salvation). It may sound confusing but it should become obvious what it means - don't let the rewards become your obsessions or else it becomes your god and you cannot be saved if you practice idolatry. You simply can't see / know the truth as an idolater.

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I think you're on to something. We Christians are not Amway salesmen. We aren't rewarded based on how many souls we bring to Jesus, nor are we punished if we don't meet some quota.

Our relationship with God is our own individual responsibility. Their relationship with God is their individual responsibility.

A saving faith in Jesus Christ is only the beginning. Church assemblies that preach how to be saved every Sunday but go no further are not moving past Kindergarten level Christianity. How are you developing your Faith, or learning how to put it into practice?

ZephBonkerer said:

How are you developing your Faith, or learning how to put it into practice?

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Jesus said all we need do was put the will of God ahead of our own and love all as self. That's It. Meanwhile He and the Father would set creation straight and overcome rebellious elohim and man.

timewerx said:

It all goes down to this - saving our souls. The bait of converting people to Christianity.

But I don't think this isn't what Christians should be going crazy about. They quickly jump into action out of extreme fear their loved ones might go to hell tomorrow if they die or they go to hell or lose their heavenly mansions if they die without leading a single soul to Christ.

The panic to jump into action to try to save souls from hell is what makes them miss the more important things - the Truth, the knowledge that sets free. And if they have no truth, doesn't it make them a false teacher, spreading false teachings and not even knowing it.

How Jesus said it simply, the Truth will set you free. The knowledge of it, the words of God.

On the other hands, He gave us a stern warning - whoever tries to save their life will lose it - Luke 17:33 and I don't think this message only encompass our life here on Earth (flesh) but our desire to have eternal lives.

Because both the desire of keeping ourselves alive or the senseless fear of losing our lives, including forfeiting eternal salvation can blind us to the truth. This senseless fear, the lack of courage, cowardice, will make us open to false teachings.

Does anyone realize how very corruptible even the most devout Christian if their lives and the lives of loved ones are threatened? That we are prepared to accept any solution without checking or testing it as long as it saves us from death?

I think this is what Christianity has become. Too afraid to look back to see what we have missed too paralyzed by fear to even check if the path is leading to a cliff. Or too blinded by the reward of eternal life, it has become a false god.

I fear we are still no different from the Pharisees. They try to gain salvation with works while we try to gain salvation by accepting God's Grace. They're both salvation-centric delusions. No care for the truth. Which is the irony because if you have no truth, you have no salvation as well.

Thus, if you seek to save your life (both this life and your soul), you lose it - Luke 17:33. Because you're setting your priorities wrong, very wrong.

Click to expand...

Christendom is a large and complex association with many differing view points. I think this post does well in addressing a certain faction of it.

Timewerx,
I totally agree with you. American evangelical Christianity seems to view that the goal of Christian life is to simply preach at people. Missions to former communist countries is probably the most egregious. I remember seeing a mission group with t-shirts that stated "Preaching the Gospel where it's never been heard" stamped over this image. All I could do was shake my head.

Mercy Shown said:

Christendom is a large and complex association with many differing view points.

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Which shows man has added a lot to what Jesus said would be a church of the Father's simple truth.

ZephBonkerer said:

We aren't rewarded based on how many souls we bring to Jesus,

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Yes we are. We are rewarded by God for working for His kingdom while on earth.

timothyu said:

Which shows man has added a lot to what Jesus said would be a church of the Father's simple truth.

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Yes, but that doesn't thwart God. He knows his sheep and His sheep know Him. His word will not return empty on to him but will accomplish that which He sent it to do.

Remembering when I fell into what resembled a “Savation Cult” As a teenager I had fell in with my generation and that was where my walk focused on three things...

Attention
Appreciation
Acceptance

And where I was also very motivated away from anything Christianity. I moved in with my grandmother as a teenager and ended up away from my former cares. I would end up farming and attending revivals at the local Pentecostal Holiness church. At the end of that summer we had a good revival in which the Lord seemed there in a mighty way. On reading the book, Run Baby Run, by Nikki Cruise, I felt a voice telling me to put the book down. I paused, and then continued again to read. The voice said again, Put the book down. I slept in my Grandmothers living room on an old fold away cot by the open living room door. The Katydids seemed to be singing very loud that night. There in my Grandmothers clean linens I heard the Spirit speak again, "Where is all the stress, worry and hatred?" In which, upon examining my heart, there was nothing there but pure beauty. I thought to myself. "Oh my! I got exactly what those people got!" I would spend the rest of the summer rejoicing with the people and in revival. In the words of GC Rankin…

“As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.” - The Life of George Clark Rankin

friend of said:

Yes we are. We are rewarded by God for working for His kingdom while on earth.

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The point of my message was not that there is no reward for bringing someone to Christ, only that gaining converts is not the be-all, end-all, of furthering the interests of the Kingdom.

ZephBonkerer said:

The point of my message was not that there is no reward for bringing someone to Christ, only that gaining converts is not the be-all, end-all, of furthering the interests of the Kingdom.

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To the contrary, bringing others to Christ is the crux of furthering the Kingdom.

friend of said:

To the contrary, bringing others to Christ is the crux of furthering the Kingdom.

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Do they do so by selling their religion or in promoting the message of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which happily proclaims man's reign over man is over