Love

Xeno.of.athens said:

What do you think this means: "No man has ever seen God; but if we love one another, then we have God dwelling in us, and the love of God has reached its full growth in our lives."

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"No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."

I don't like your paraphrase. There is no, "we have" in 1 John 4:12 —only, "God abides in us".

Also, there is no mention that the love of God has reached its "full growth" in us —only, that it has been completed, perfected, accomplished.

Listening to John Vervaeke's lectures on Christianity helped me to understand how much of a participatory ontology is implied in Johannine theology, quite different from Protestant scholastic theology.

Xeno.of.athens said:

Is that a matter of taste?

By the way it is not a paraphrase and it is a bit mean-spirited of you to call it such.

It is, The Knox Bible, a well reputed translation from the Latin text of the holy scriptures.

The Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, commented on the new Baronius Press edition that "Ronald Knox's translation of the Bible remains an exceptional achievement both of scholarship and of literary dedication. Again and again it successfully avoids conventional options and gives the scriptural text a fresh flavour, often with a brilliantly idiosyncratic turn of phrase. It most certainly deserves republication, study and use."[3] (wikipedia)​

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The Bible is not Latin.

But that's what paraphrases do: "...gives the scriptural text a fresh flavour, often with a brilliantly idiosyncratic turn of phrase."

Xeno.of.athens said:

We've covered this before, maybe more with @Clare73, but let's stop now and return to the topic.

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Sorry, but the verse as you quoted it —Douay?— implies things the Greek text does not. I don't like to argue by assuming what the opponent assumes. But I will bow out for now.

Xeno.of.athens said:

What do you think this means: "No man has ever seen God; but if we love one another, then we have God dwelling in us, and the love of God has reached its full growth in our lives."

Patience could be a virtue, I tried to post this but CF code said I had to wait 19 seconds; seems I was posting too fast! So, to fill the 19 seconds I typed this little footnote.

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God is a consuming fire (no once has ever seen Him else they be consumed) .... if we have God dwelling in us (Holy Spirit) ... then the evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirt will be displayed in our character .... the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer will help to change one's thinking (this happens continuously over our earthly lives-sanctification) ... we will mess up here and there ... as our thinking is changed our actions will change.

This is one of the reasons Jesus (who is God) appeared in human form ... so He could engage with mankind in person. (He who hath seen me has seen the father) ... when He returns in FULL GLORY .... He will be a consuming fire ... those in Him will be resurrected/translated and
taken to heaven .... and can withstand the fiery presence of God.

Full growth?

The entire fullness (full growth) of believers will not be fully manifested until Jesus returns and believers are resurrected or translated and are in the physical presence of the Lord for eternity. Until then we have a spiritual connection with God and He helps us to overcome and endure hardships in this life (through the work of the Holy Spirit) .... this is on-going.

He will finish HIs work ....

Philippians 1:6
King James Bible
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Thank you Jesus for all that you do! Amen!

Xeno.of.athens said:

What do you think this means: "No man has ever seen God; but if we love one another, then we have God dwelling in us, and the love of God has reached its full growth in our lives."

Patience could be a virtue, I tried to post this but CF code said I had to wait 19 seconds; seems I was posting too fast! So, to fill the 19 seconds I typed this little footnote.

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In Colossians 1:15, the Son is the image of the invisible God, and in Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of God's nature. We can't directly see God, but we can see how God interacts through the embodiment of HIs nature, such as through love. The exact image of God's nature is the way to see and know the Father (John 14:7), which is why those who continue to see in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him (1 John 3:4-6).

Xeno.of.athens said:

What do you think this means: "No man has ever seen God; but if we love one another, then we have God dwelling in us, and the love of God has reached its full growth in our lives."

Patience could be a virtue, I tried to post this but CF code said I had to wait 19 seconds; seems I was posting too fast! So, to fill the 19 seconds I typed this little footnote.

Click to expand...

While I don’t prefer paraphrased versions so much, the translation used here conveys the message of 1 John 4:12 well enough. And the meaning of the verse is pretty much self-evident. Now, actually realizing that love is another story, and an indisputably worthy goal.