Righteousness by faith

Gary K · Apr 5, 2023

Paul says in 1Corinthians 1:31 that Christ is made unto us wisdom, justification, sanctification and redemption. The clear meaning of this is that we have no role to play in our sanctification any more than we do in our justification. It all comes from Christ.

So is this your understanding of our role in our sanctification?

Morris Venden's sermons on sanctification by faith alone make this very clear. Here is the link to the first sermon of Vendon's second series of sermons on the subject.

https://acm-audio-drive.us-southeast-1.linodeobjects.com//media/audio/MV-8L/0_1.+SANCTIFICATION+BY+FAITH+ALONE.mp3

Soyeong · Apr 5, 2023

Gary K said:
Paul says in 1Corinthians 1:31 that Christ is made unto us wisdom, justification, sanctification and redemption. The clear meaning of this is that we have no role to play in our sanctification any more than we do in our justification. It all comes from Christ.

So is this your understanding of our role in our sanctification?

Morris Venden's sermons on sanctification by faith alone make this very clear. Here is the link to the first sermon of Vendon's second series of sermons on the subject.

https://acm-audio-drive.us-southeast-1.linodeobjects.com//media/audio/MV-8L/0_1.+SANCTIFICATION+BY+FAITH+ALONE.mp3

The way to have faith in God alone to correctly divide between right and wrong rather than leaning on our own understanding is by obeying His instructions. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so again the way to have faith in God alone is by obeying His law, while it is incorrect for someone to think that obediently relying on what God has instructed is something other than having faith in God alone. This is also why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to Him, such as Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments.

To say that someone has a character trait is to say that they are someone who takes actions that express it, so to say that someone is courageous is to say that they take action that express courage and to say that God is righteous is to say that he takes actions that express righteousness, so becoming righteous by grace through faith alone is intrinsically connected with becoming someone who takes actions that express righteousness by grace through faith alone, and God's law is His instructions for how to take actions that express righteousness, not for how to result in becoming righteous as if it could be earned as a wage. In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of becoming righteous by grace through faith alone. In Titus 2:11-14, it does not describe our salvation as being the result of our works or our works as being the result of our salvation, but rather it describes the content of our gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do works, which absolutely does involve our participation.

The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where the fact that the gift requires them to do the work of driving it does not detract from the fact that the gift was made completely available to them by someone else. In a similar manner, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3), and God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience through taking actions that express His nature. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life, which does involve our participation (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28, Romans 2:6-7), and which in no way detracts that it all comes from Christ.

BobRyan · Apr 5, 2023

Gary K said:
Paul says in 1Corinthians 1:31 that Christ is made unto us wisdom, justification, sanctification and redemption. The clear meaning of this is that we have no role to play in our sanctification any more than we do in our justification. It all comes from Christ.

In fact in Calvinism one does not even choose. So not even that role either.

We are not at all infinitely wise - yet Christ is "our wisdom" not just our Sanctification.

Justification involves the choice to accept the Gospel.

Sanctification looks like this according to Paul -
1 Cor 9:
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. So they do it to obtain a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way as not to run aimlessly; I box in such a way, as to avoid hitting air; 27 but I strictly discipline my body and make it my slave, lest after I have preached the gospel to others, I myself will not be disqualified. from it,

Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Gary K · Apr 8, 2023

You have both answered me basically the same way so I will answer you with one post with scripture from both the NT and OT.

(Exo 31:13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

(Eze 20:12) Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. Jeremiah 13:23

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

Gary K · Apr 8, 2023

I will now further back up my position with quotes from Ellen White.

Many are inquiring, “How am I to make the surrender of myself
to God?” You desire to give yourself to Him, but you are weak in
moral power, in slavery to doubt, and controlled by the habits of your
life of sin. Your promises and resolutions are like ropes of sand. You
cannot control your thoughts, your impulses, your affections. The
knowledge of your broken promises and forfeited pledges weakens
your confidence in your own sincerity, and causes you to feel that
God cannot accept you; but you need not despair. What you need to
understand is the true force of the will. This is the governing power
in the nature of man, the power of decision, or of choice. Everything
depends on the right action of the will. The power of choice God
has given to men; it is theirs to exercise. You cannot change your
heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can
choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then
work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. Thus
your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of
Christ; your affections will be centered upon Him, your thoughts
will be in harmony with Him. STC p. 47

All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with
Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our
thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to
His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our
own impulses. The will, refined and sanctified, will find its highest
delight in doing His service. When we know God as it is our privilege
to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience. Through
an appreciation of the character of Christ, through communion with
God, sin will become hateful to us.
As Christ lived the law in humanity, so we may do if we will
take hold of the Strong for strength. DofA p. 668

All who have a sense of their deep soul poverty, who feel that
they have nothing good in themselves, may find righteousness and
strength by looking unto Jesus. He says, “Come unto Me, all ye that
labor and are heavy-laden.” Matthew 11:28. He bids you exchange
your poverty for the riches of His grace. We are not worthy of God’s [9]
love, but Christ, our surety, is worthy, and is abundantly able to save
all who shall come unto Him. Whatever may have been your past
experience, however discouraging your present circumstances, if you
will come to Jesus just as you are, weak, helpless, and despairing,
our compassionate Saviour will meet you a great way off, and will
throw about you His arms of love and His robe of righteousness. He
presents us to the Father clothed in the white raiment of His own
character. He pleads before God in our behalf, saying: I have taken
the sinner’s place. Look not upon this wayward child, but look on
Me. Does Satan plead loudly against our souls, accusing of sin,
and claiming us as his prey, the blood of Christ pleads with greater
power. TMB p. 9

Soyeong · Apr 9, 2023

Gary K said:
You have both answered me basically the same way so I will answer you with one post with scripture from both the NT and OT.

Can you please explain why you quoted those verses and what they have to do with what I said?

Gary O' · Apr 9, 2023

Gary K said:
So is this your understanding of our role in our sanctification?

I have little understanding of the mechanics of sanctification
I just know it works
By beholding we are changed

2 Corinthians 3:18
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I sure enjoyed hearing Morris Venden again
And Mrs White's writings are always a blessing

Gary K · Apr 9, 2023

Soyeong said:
Can you please explain why you quoted those verses and what they have to do with what I said?

Every one of those texts talk about how it is God who sanctifies us. It is God who works in side us to will and to do of his good pleasure. God gave the Sabbath as a sign that He is the one who sanctifies us. One text I didn't post, Colossians 2:6, says As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:. Meaning we are justified by faith so to remain in Him we are to continue walking in Him by faith.

Gary K · Apr 9, 2023

Gary O' said:
I have little understanding of the mechanics of sanctification
I just know it works
By beholding we are changed

2 Corinthians 3:18
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I sure enjoyed hearing Morris Venden again
And Mrs White's writings are always a blessing

Good text. I will have to remember it. Paul and John spoke, and acted, a lot on righteousness by faith.

I owe you an apology from a while back. I jumped all over your case without reason. I haven't been back for a long time due to hackers wrecking my laptop.

Soyeong · Apr 9, 2023

Gary K said:
Every one of those texts talk about how it is God who sanctifies us. It is God who works in side us to will and to do of his good pleasure. God gave the Sabbath as a sign that He is the one who sanctifies us. One text I didn't post, Colossians 2:6, says As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:. Meaning we are justified by faith so to remain in Him we are to continue walking in Him by faith.

The fact that God sanctifies us by making us to be like Christ does not mean that our sanctification does not involve being like Christ.

Gary K · Apr 12, 2023

Soyeong said:
The fact that God sanctifies us by making us to be like Christ does not mean that our sanctification does not involve being like Christ.

Here is what Paul has to say on the subject in Romans.

Romans 7: 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:1Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 9 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Here is what he says in Collossians.

Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Gary O' · Apr 12, 2023

Gary K said:
I owe you an apology from a while back. I jumped all over your case without reason.

We all go there from time to time
But
We are brothers
We know to pray for each other
So good to see you back
Answered prayer

Keep the fire

Gary K · Apr 14, 2023

BobRyan said:
In fact in Calvinism one does not even choose. So not even that role either.

We are not at all infinitely wise - yet Christ is "our wisdom" not just our Sanctification.

Justification involves the choice to accept the Gospel.

Sanctification looks like this according to Paul -
1 Cor 9:
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. So they do it to obtain a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way as not to run aimlessly; I box in such a way, as to avoid hitting air; 27 but I strictly discipline my body and make it my slave, lest after I have preached the gospel to others, I myself will not be disqualified. from it,

Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

I saw what you had to say on Calvinism and later thought about what Calvin says in his book Commentary on Romans.

BobRyan said:
In fact in Calvinism one does not even choose. So not even that role either.

We are not at all infinitely wise - yet Christ is "our wisdom" not just our Sanctification.

Justification involves the choice to accept the Gospel.

Sanctification looks like this according to Paul -
1 Cor 9:
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. So they do it to obtain a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way as not to run aimlessly; I box in such a way, as to avoid hitting air; 27 but I strictly discipline my body and make it my slave, lest after I have preached the gospel to others, I myself will not be disqualified. from it,

Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of

BobRyan said:
me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Here is what John Calvin actually says about faith in his book Commentary on Romans. He actually says this multiple times on a variety of subjects

22. Hast thou faith? In order to conclude, he shows in what consists the advantage of
Christian liberty: it hence appears, that they boast falsely of liberty who know not how to
make a right use of it. He then says, that liberty really understood, as it is that of faith, has
properly a regard to God; so that he who is endued with a conviction of this kind, ought to
be satisfied with peace of conscience before God; nor is it needful for him to show before
men that he possesses it. It hence follows, that if we offend our weak brethren by eating
meats, it is through a perverse opinion; for there is no necessity to constrain us. chapter 3

BobRyan · Apr 14, 2023

Gary K said:
I saw what you had to say on Calvinism and later thought about what Calvin says in his book Commentary on Romans.

There is something now days called "The New Calvinists" or "the New Calvinism" (Timothy Keller claims to be one of them) - which they say is not "new" it is just going back to what Calvin actually taught vs what Calvinism has become today.

Gary K · Apr 15, 2023

BobRyan said:
There is something now days called "The New Calvinists" or "the New Calvinism" (Timothy Keller claims to be one of them) - which they say is not "new" it is just going back to what Calvin actually taught vs what Calvinism has become today.

I've never heard of it before. It must be a very recent development.

BobRyan · Apr 15, 2023

Gary K said:
I've never heard of it before. It must be a very recent development.

1980's recent?

New Calvinism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gary K · Apr 15, 2023

There is just so much in scripture about this i cant

BobRyan said:
1980's recent?

New Calvinism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I guess it is to me as I live a very sheltered life.

Gary K · Apr 15, 2023

Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gary K · Apr 15, 2023

Here is more from Ellen White.

The gospel message proclaimed by Christ’s disciples was the announcement of His first advent to the world. It bore to men the good tidings of salvation through faith in Him. It pointed forward to His second coming in glory to redeem [227] His people, and it set before men the hope, through faith and obedience, of sharing the inheritance of the saints in light. This message is given to men today, and at this time there is coupled with it the announcement of Christ’s second coming as at hand. The signs which He Himself gave of His coming have been fulfilled, and by the teaching of God’s word we may know that the Lord is at the door. COL page 227

Gary K · Apr 17, 2023

Herer is more from scripture on this subject.

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Righteousness by faith

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