The Revelation of the Mystery.The working service of the saints for the restoration of the cosmos

Antonio39 · Apr 2, 2023

The Revelation of the Mystery.

The working service of the saints for the restoration of the cosmos

8c in all wisdom and insight 9 making know to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in himself 10 as a plan (dispensation) for the fullness of the appointed seasons, to head up all things in Christ the, things in heaven and things on earth (Eph.1:8-10).

The mystery of God’s will concerns the establishment of His Kingdom by the Christ; and how He purposes to do this through the redemption of the church into its inheritance; this will be accomplished through the working service of the members of Christ’s Body; which are called to build up one another in love, for the glorious manifestation of Christ with His body in the heavenly realm (Eph.1:5-7;14; 4:30 4:12-16; Col.1:4-5,23,25-29; Tit.1:1-3). Once the church enters its inheritance with Christ, as God’s glorious, enthroned image; the fullness of God’s glory (preeminent presence) will then begin to pervade out to all creation during the appointed seasons; where all the divinely assigned offices of authority that rule the cosmos and the earth ( that are ruled by the forces of darkness, Eph.6:12), will then be made subjugated under the preeminent headship of Christ (Isa.24:21), thus being filled with the glory of God, where He is all in all (Eph.1:18-23; 3:9-11; Col.1:14-21;cp.1Cor.15:24-28).

Here we have God’s secret plan in bringing order to the cosmos (i.e., the establishment of God’s Kingdom), through the redemption of the Church into its inheritance in the heavenly realm. This realm is currently occupied by the hostile spiritual forces of darkness (Eph.6:12; cp.Eph.1:3), thus, they have present control over the worlds system (the kingdom of darkness, Eph.2:1-3). Here lies the cosmic conflict, and the spiritual warfare that the church is called to engage in, in order to obtain possession of the inheritance (Eph.6:12-18), that God may establish order to the cosmos through the rein of Christ (cp. Heb.2:8). This will be accomplished by our being energized by God’s Spirit that dwells within us, by the same power that raised Christ from the dead (Eph. 1:18-20). For by our spiritual union with Christ in His heavenly enthronement at the right hand of God (Eph.2:5-6), we are to exercise His spiritual authority by faith in corporate practice over the powers of darkness; with the one hope of the appearing with Christ in glory (Eph.1:18; 4:1; 6:12; 1 Tim1:1). This is done by imaging the character of the father, learned through the knowledge of the Son of God (Eph.4:13b, 20-32). By the power of His spirit, we are all to be made mature in Christ (Col1:28-29; 4:13c); and when the members of the body are corporately grown in righteousness, and selflessness love (Phil.1:1-4), being built up in the truth and love of God, bearing the fruits of righteousness (Eph.4:15; 5:9), we will be well pleasing to the father by our works, and by the faithful, joyful enduring witness (Col.1:10-12), its members will have filled up the sufferings of Christ through their selfless sacrificial love (Col.1:24; Eph.5:1-2;Phil.1:27-30). By this, the church will be the holy and without blemish offering to God for the restoration of the cosmos; then entering its inheritance in the heavenlies at the epiphany of Christ, partaking in the glory of His priestly intercession for the restoration of the cosmic order (Eph.1:4; Col.1:22; cp. 2 Tim.2:10,12; Tit. 2:13; cp. Phil.2:9-10; Eph.1:20-23).

The hope of the glory of the kingdom that would come from the inherence that was to be received by Christ from God, was made known unto the sons of men in the past ages (Ps.2:7-8; 110:1). But their understand was not according to the knowledge “as” was given to the Apostle Paul, this is because this mystery concerning Christ was hidden in God from the ages and generations of men, but was revealed exclusively to Paul (while in prison after Israels historical judgment Acts.28:25-28), and then revealed to the apostles-prophets that helped Paul in laying the foundational truths of this new revelation to the different assembles (Eph.2:20; 4:11), and this mystery concerns a called-out company that is composed of members from among the nations; this Church has been allotted an inheritance with Christ as the corporate New Man (Eph.2:15; 4:24; Col.3:10), as joint-heirs over the government of the Cosmos and joint-members (in a mystical union with Christ by the spirt) of the body of His flesh (Eph.5:30), and co-sharers of the royal priestly glory, that God promised to the image (Eph. 3:1-6; Ps.8; cp. Eph1:20-23); when this company enters its inheritance, they will share in the glory of the theophany of God with Christ, being made manifest with Him as the body of His glory at the right hand of God (Tit.2:13; Phil.3:21-22; Col.3:1-4).

Here we have the mystery of the gospel, the mystery of Christ, the gospel of the glory of God, where Gods glorious power is manifested through Christ’s body by their mystical union with Him in His heavenly enthronement, it is the gospel of our salvation (from the powers of death, and the prince of the power of this age, Eph.2:1-8; 6:19; Col.4:3;1 Tim1:11); it is deliverance unto our inheritance in Gods heavenly kingdom (2 Tim.4:18), as co-sharers of the glory rewarded to Christ and His Body for fulfilling the commission given to the image, to interceded on behalf of the human condition; for the restoration of the cosmos as God’s house, where He will have fellowship with mankind (Rev.21:3).

The body of Christ is built up to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ (Eph.4:13), when the gift of his headship to the church (His preeminent authority) is being harmoniously manifested through each member (spiritually) that they have become perfect in Christ; all the members of the body having grown up into him through the love and knowledge of the truth; which its members are to corporately manifest towards to one to another (Eph.4:7,12-16,cp. 1:20-23). When this is accomplished, Christ who is currently hid in the glory of God, will then be made manifest at the right hand of God, and we with him, as the body of his glory (Col.3:3-4; 1 Tim.4:16; Phil.3:21-22).

This is the mystery of our devotion, for He was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, and believed on in the world, and taken up in glory (1 Tim.3:16). Here we have the mystical union with Christ and his body in our working service to proclaim the truth, and through our belief in expressing the truth of the heavenly kingship of Christ over our lives, the body shall be taken up in glory; where the appointed seasons will have arrived for hm to reveal that He is the king of Kings and lord of lords (1Tim.6:13-16), in the establishment of Gods Kingdom, this is why the church is said to be the fullness of all the offices of government that are to be filled with the glory of God (Eph.1:22-23). Because it is by the redemption of the church to its inheritance at the manifestation of Christ in glory. From which Gods glory will then pervade the cosmos subjugating all under the authoritative headship of Christ.

By the victorious enthronement of those that were low and trusted in God, over the high rebellious spiritual forces of darkness; the church that is Christ’s body will forever be a testimony in the ages to come to all creation of God’s grace, glory, power, and kindness toward us who trusted and believed, we will forever be the praise of His glory who first hoped in Christ (Eph.1:6,12,18, 21-22; 2:7,21-22). BY our performing this work that we may appear with Him in heaven, partaking in the sufferings of His intercession for the rescue of the human condition, for the fulness of the seasons, that God may head up all under Christ, and be all in all, dwelling amongst mankind forever. Amen!

eleos1954 · Apr 3, 2023

Antonio39 said:
The Revelation of the Mystery.

The working service of the saints for the restoration of the cosmos

8c in all wisdom and insight 9 making know to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in himself 10 as a plan (dispensation) for the fullness of the appointed seasons, to head up all things in Christ the, things in heaven and things on earth (Eph.1:8-10).

The mystery of God’s will concerns the establishment of His Kingdom by the Christ; and how He purposes to do this through the redemption of the church into its inheritance; this will be accomplished through the working service of the members of Christ’s Body; which are called to build up one another in love, for the glorious manifestation of Christ with His body in the heavenly realm (Eph.1:5-7;14; 4:30 4:12-16; Col.1:4-5,23,25-29; Tit.1:1-3). Once the church enters its inheritance with Christ, as God’s glorious, enthroned image; the fullness of God’s glory (preeminent presence) will then begin to pervade out to all creation during the appointed seasons; where all the divinely assigned offices of authority that rule the cosmos and the earth ( that are ruled by the forces of darkness, Eph.6:12), will then be made subjugated under the preeminent headship of Christ (Isa.24:21), thus being filled with the glory of God, where He is all in all (Eph.1:18-23; 3:9-11; Col.1:14-21;cp.1Cor.15:24-28).

Here we have God’s secret plan in bringing order to the cosmos (i.e., the establishment of God’s Kingdom), through the redemption of the Church into its inheritance in the heavenly realm. This realm is currently occupied by the hostile spiritual forces of darkness (Eph.6:12; cp.Eph.1:3), thus, they have present control over the worlds system (the kingdom of darkness, Eph.2:1-3). Here lies the cosmic conflict, and the spiritual warfare that the church is called to engage in, in order to obtain possession of the inheritance (Eph.6:12-18), that God may establish order to the cosmos through the rein of Christ (cp. Heb.2:8). This will be accomplished by our being energized by God’s Spirit that dwells within us, by the same power that raised Christ from the dead (Eph. 1:18-20). For by our spiritual union with Christ in His heavenly enthronement at the right hand of God (Eph.2:5-6), we are to exercise His spiritual authority by faith in corporate practice over the powers of darkness; with the one hope of the appearing with Christ in glory (Eph.1:18; 4:1; 6:12; 1 Tim1:1). This is done by imaging the character of the father, learned through the knowledge of the Son of God (Eph.4:13b, 20-32). By the power of His spirit, we are all to be made mature in Christ (Col1:28-29; 4:13c); and when the members of the body are corporately grown in righteousness, and selflessness love (Phil.1:1-4), being built up in the truth and love of God, bearing the fruits of righteousness (Eph.4:15; 5:9), we will be well pleasing to the father by our works, and by the faithful, joyful enduring witness (Col.1:10-12), its members will have filled up the sufferings of Christ through their selfless sacrificial love (Col.1:24; Eph.5:1-2;Phil.1:27-30). By this, the church will be the holy and without blemish offering to God for the restoration of the cosmos; then entering its inheritance in the heavenlies at the epiphany of Christ, partaking in the glory of His priestly intercession for the restoration of the cosmic order (Eph.1:4; Col.1:22; cp. 2 Tim.2:10,12; Tit. 2:13; cp. Phil.2:9-10; Eph.1:20-23).

The hope of the glory of the kingdom that would come from the inherence that was to be received by Christ from God, was made known unto the sons of men in the past ages (Ps.2:7-8; 110:1). But their understand was not according to the knowledge “as” was given to the Apostle Paul, this is because this mystery concerning Christ was hidden in God from the ages and generations of men, but was revealed exclusively to Paul (while in prison after Israels historical judgment Acts.28:25-28), and then revealed to the apostles-prophets that helped Paul in laying the foundational truths of this new revelation to the different assembles (Eph.2:20; 4:11), and this mystery concerns a called-out company that is composed of members from among the nations; this Church has been allotted an inheritance with Christ as the corporate New Man (Eph.2:15; 4:24; Col.3:10), as joint-heirs over the government of the Cosmos and joint-members (in a mystical union with Christ by the spirt) of the body of His flesh (Eph.5:30), and co-sharers of the royal priestly glory, that God promised to the image (Eph. 3:1-6; Ps.8; cp. Eph1:20-23); when this company enters its inheritance, they will share in the glory of the theophany of God with Christ, being made manifest with Him as the body of His glory at the right hand of God (Tit.2:13; Phil.3:21-22; Col.3:1-4).

Here we have the mystery of the gospel, the mystery of Christ, the gospel of the glory of God, where Gods glorious power is manifested through Christ’s body by their mystical union with Him in His heavenly enthronement, it is the gospel of our salvation (from the powers of death, and the prince of the power of this age, Eph.2:1-8; 6:19; Col.4:3;1 Tim1:11); it is deliverance unto our inheritance in Gods heavenly kingdom (2 Tim.4:18), as co-sharers of the glory rewarded to Christ and His Body for fulfilling the commission given to the image, to interceded on behalf of the human condition; for the restoration of the cosmos as God’s house, where He will have fellowship with mankind (Rev.21:3).

The body of Christ is built up to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ (Eph.4:13), when the gift of his headship to the church (His preeminent authority) is being harmoniously manifested through each member (spiritually) that they have become perfect in Christ; all the members of the body having grown up into him through the love and knowledge of the truth; which its members are to corporately manifest towards to one to another (Eph.4:7,12-16,cp. 1:20-23). When this is accomplished, Christ who is currently hid in the glory of God, will then be made manifest at the right hand of God, and we with him, as the body of his glory (Col.3:3-4; 1 Tim.4:16; Phil.3:21-22).

This is the mystery of our devotion, for He was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, and believed on in the world, and taken up in glory (1 Tim.3:16). Here we have the mystical union with Christ and his body in our working service to proclaim the truth, and through our belief in expressing the truth of the heavenly kingship of Christ over our lives, the body shall be taken up in glory; where the appointed seasons will have arrived for hm to reveal that He is the king of Kings and lord of lords (1Tim.6:13-16), in the establishment of Gods Kingdom, this is why the church is said to be the fullness of all the offices of government that are to be filled with the glory of God (Eph.1:22-23). Because it is by the redemption of the church to its inheritance at the manifestation of Christ in glory. From which Gods glory will then pervade the cosmos subjugating all under the authoritative headship of Christ.

By the victorious enthronement of those that were low and trusted in God, over the high rebellious spiritual forces of darkness; the church that is Christ’s body will forever be a testimony in the ages to come to all creation of God’s grace, glory, power, and kindness toward us who trusted and believed, we will forever be the praise of His glory who first hoped in Christ (Eph.1:6,12,18, 21-22; 2:7,21-22). BY our performing this work that we may appear with Him in heaven, partaking in the sufferings of His intercession for the rescue of the human condition, for the fulness of the seasons, that God may head up all under Christ, and be all in all, dwelling amongst mankind forever. Amen!

Antonio39 said:
Here we have God’s secret plan in bringing order to the cosmos

It's not a secret .... God is going to one day totally end sin (for eternity) and re-create everything physical (order of the cosmos) ... and he will move His heavenly kingdom to earth for eternity ... sin will never rise again. Right now we have access to His heavenly kingdom spiritually.

Can't wait! Thank you Jesus!

Antonio39 · Apr 3, 2023

eleos1954 said:
It's not a secret .... God is going to one day totally end sin (for eternity) and re-create everything physical (order of the cosmos) ... and he will move His heavenly kingdom to earth for eternity ... sin will never rise again. Right now we have access to His heavenly kingdom spiritually.

Can't wait! Thank you Jesus!

Did you read all I wrote and look at the refences? The redemption of the church will trigger the messianic times, but this can only take place by our fulfilling our working service. Take time to read it again.

Davy · Apr 7, 2023

Antonio39 said:
Did you read all I wrote and look at the refences? The redemption of the church will trigger the messianic times, but this can only take place by our fulfilling our working service. Take time to read it again.

Don't know where you're getting that idea. It's a pop idea that's been running around in certain church denominations. Some who believe it even think by helping to send funds to the orthodox unbelieving Jews in today's Jerusalem in prep for their building a 3rd temple is a way to help usher in Messiah's coming. Back in 1997 I recall a pastor who had a business called Jesus, Inc. in the state of Tennessee, U.S.A. that was sending red heifers to the Jews in Jerusalem for sacrifice. None of that is per God's Word, it's just an idea some man thought up.

Like Lord Jesus said, no man knows the day or the hour of Christ's future coming, not even The Son knows, but The Father only. And people think they can make God hurry up? What vanity! The events God gave His Word about the end of this world MUST take place as written, like He said. THAT... is what Christ's servants are to be 'watching', not some fake holy man that thinks he can hurry up the time.

eleos1954 · Apr 7, 2023

Antonio39 said:
Did you read all I wrote and look at the refences? The redemption of the church will trigger the messianic times, but this can only take place by our fulfilling our working service. Take time to read it again.

It's not about specific "times", it's about the condition of humanity .... it's about sheep and goats .... since Cain and Able the Lord has been interacting with mankind .... some followed His ways (sheep) .... some not (goats) ..... and so it is today ... and will be going forward.

We are to take note of events happening .... all prophecy related to specific time has already happened. When Jesus returns He takes
the saved to heaven (for 1,000 years-first resurrection) ... but this is not the full end. The 2nd resurrection happens after the 1,000 years.

However, His return is near .... we are told .... corruption of mankind will escalate (birth pangs), and that is what we see.

Things that have escalated (and will escalate)....

Wars and rumors of wars
pestilence
famines
earthquakes

Matthew 24
4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Above are the beginning of birth pangs

As far as the churches (His people) go .... this is what is going on now ... and going forward (will escalate).

wickedness (worsening)
People falling away (will get worse) turning away from the faith (grow cold) and hatred
Persecution of His people (will get worse)
[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol]False teachings going on (false prophets) by various [/FONT]religious[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol] systems (Mystery Babylon)[/FONT]
Even so ... the Gospel continues to go out (until He returns)

Witnessing to All Nations
(Mark 13:9–13; Luke 21:10–19)

9Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, 11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.

12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

He is calling His people out of Babylon (false teachings by various church/religious systems)

Revelation 18

Will be like in the days of Noah ....

He will return when mankind has once again reached this point .....

Matthew 24

37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

In the days of Noah .... the majority were swept away (destroyed) by the flood .... when He returns the majority (living at that time) will be swept away (destroyed) by fire.

Genesis 6:5

Berean Standard Bible
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time.

Mankind will once again get to this point (great wickedness on earth) .... and then He will return. (the end of all "ages") The final separation of the sheep from the goats ..... for eternity.

Sheep and goats
Matthew 25 31-46

People need to study His Word for themselves and pray for understanding .... and if the church/religious system they are attending are not teaching what His word says .... they need to come out of Babylon (do not be misled). I pray this will be so.

Davy · Apr 7, 2023

eleos1954 said:
It's not about specific "times", it's about the condition of humanity .... it's about sheep and goats .... since Cain and Able the Lord has been interacting with mankind .... some followed His ways (sheep) .... some not (goats) ..... and so it is today ... and will be going forward.

We are to take note of events happening .... all prophecy related to specific time has already happened. When Jesus returns He takes
the saved to heaven (for 1,000 years-first resurrection) ... but this is not the full end. The 2nd resurrection happens after the 1,000 years.

However, His return is near .... we are told .... corruption of mankind will escalate (birth pangs), and that is what we see.

Things that have escalated (and will escalate)....

Wars and rumors of wars
pestilence
famines
earthquakes

Matthew 24
4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Above are the beginning of birth pangs

As far as the churches (His people) go .... this is what is going on now ... and going forward (will escalate).

wickedness (worsening)
People falling away (will get worse) turning away from the faith (grow cold) and hatred
Persecution of His people (will get worse)
[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol]False teachings going on (false prophets) by various [/FONT]religious[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol] systems (Mystery Babylon)[/FONT]
Even so ... the Gospel continues to go out (until He returns)

Witnessing to All Nations
(Mark 13:9–13; Luke 21:10–19)

9Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, 11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.

12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

He is calling His people out of Babylon (false teachings by various church/religious systems)

Revelation 18

Will be like in the days of Noah ....

He will return when mankind has once again reached this point .....

Matthew 24

37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

In the days of Noah .... the majority were swept away (destroyed) by the flood .... when He returns the majority (living at that time) will be swept away (destroyed) by fire.

Genesis 6:5

Berean Standard Bible
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time.

Mankind will once again get to this point (great wickedness on earth) .... and then He will return. (the end of all "ages") The final separation of the sheep from the goats ..... for eternity.

Sheep and goats
Matthew 25 31-46

People need to study His Word for themselves and pray for understanding .... and if the church/religious system they are attending are not teaching what His word says .... they need to come out of Babylon (do not be misled). I pray this will be so.

I agree with most of that, except the rapture to heaven away from the earth part, which is an idea of Dispensationalism and a pre-trib rapture theory.

Also, the Pre-trib Rapture school has a propensity to preach that the very end (i.e., great tribulation) is going to be like all out chaos and war, when God's Word does not teach that.

When Lord Jesus said there will be 'wars and rumors of wars', He also said to not be worried, because the end is not yet. That means when wars and rumors of war have stopped... then be worried, because that means the 'end' is here, and that means the time of "great tribulation". The times before that, like wars, earthquakes, pestilences, etc., is for the time Jesus called "the beginning of sorrows" that is a precursor to the "great tribulation". The trib is to be a time of "Peace and safety" Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thess.5. And that also is shown per Daniel 8 about the end.

Look for a thread I plan to do on this identifying the "great tribulation" matter.

eleos1954 · Apr 7, 2023

Davy said:
I agree with most of that, except the rapture to heaven away from the earth part, which is an idea of Dispensationalism and a pre-trib rapture theory.

Also, the Pre-trib Rapture school has a propensity to preach that the very end (i.e., great tribulation) is going to be like all out chaos and war, when God's Word does not teach that.

When Lord Jesus said there will be 'wars and rumors of wars', He also said to not be worried, because the end is not yet. That means when wars and rumors of war have stopped... then be worried, because that means the 'end' is here, and that means the time of "great tribulation". The times before that, like wars, earthquakes, pestilences, etc., is for the time Jesus called "the beginning of sorrows" that is a precursor to the "great tribulation". The trib is to be a time of "Peace and safety" Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thess.5. And that also is shown per Daniel 8 about the end.

Look for a thread I plan to do on this identifying the "great tribulation" matter.

There isn't a pre-trib rapture ..... when He returns .... the first resurrection happens and the saved (for all times) are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years .... everything on planet earth is destroyed (not habitable) ... but this is not the full end. The only "rapture" that takes place
is the 1st resurrection (of the saved) and they are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years (not the full end)

John 5:28-29 (judgement has taken place) and all people will be removed from the earth 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. At that time, the Bible plainly teaches that this material planet, and everything in it, will be destroyed by fire.

When He returns ..... there is great destruction (just before that is the great tribulation that everyone goes through that are living at that time).

No one earth can survive what happens at His return.

The Scripture teaches that when Christ returns the earth and everything in it will be destroyed. The earth will “pass away” Matthew. 24:35;
2 Peter 3:10, a term that means “to come to an end and so no longer be there; perish.” The earth will have “fled away” Revelation 20:11, a term that means “to cease being visible, vanish, disappear.”

Antonio39 · Apr 7, 2023

Davy said:
Don't know where you're getting that idea. It's a pop idea that's been running around in certain church denominations. Some who believe it even think by helping to send funds to the orthodox unbelieving Jews in today's Jerusalem in prep for their building a 3rd temple is a way to help usher in Messiah's coming. Back in 1997 I recall a pastor who had a business called Jesus, Inc. in the state of Tennessee, U.S.A. that was sending red heifers to the Jews in Jerusalem for sacrifice. None of that is per God's Word, it's just an idea some man thought up.

Like Lord Jesus said, no man knows the day or the hour of Christ's future coming, not even The Son knows, but The Father only. And people think they can make God hurry up? What vanity! The events God gave His Word about the end of this world MUST take place as written, like He said. THAT... is what Christ's servants are to be 'watching', not some fake holy man that thinks he can hurry up the time.

Not understanding the difference of the revelation given to Paul after Acts 28. will not allow you to be enlightened to this this and its purpose because you will compare it with previous hopes and instructions, this is how the devil has blinded us from our present Ministery. So, the first thing I want you to do is a study of what the appointed seasons are in the O.T, and study the word "Purpose" in verse Eph.1:11; 3:11 and how is it used in the rest of the N.T. Also, what was to be holy and without blemish in the OT, and what was its purpose? Do this and I will answer your question. but you will have to be familiar with these subjects first for you to see.

Antonio39 · Apr 7, 2023

eleos1954 said:
There isn't a pre-trib rapture ..... when He returns .... the first resurrection happens and the saved (for all times) are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years .... everything on planet earth is destroyed (not habitable) ... but this is not the full end. The only "rapture" that takes place
is the 1st resurrection (of the saved) and they are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years (not the full end)

John 5:28-29 (judgement has taken place) and all people will be removed from the earth 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. At that time, the Bible plainly teaches that this material planet, and everything in it, will be destroyed by fire.

When He returns ..... there is great destruction (just before that is the great tribulation that everyone goes through that are living at that time).

No one earth can survive what happens at His return.

The Scripture teaches that when Christ returns the earth and everything in it will be destroyed. The earth will “pass away” Matthew. 24:35;
2 Peter 3:10, a term that means “to come to an end and so no longer be there; perish.” The earth will have “fled away” Revelation 20:11, a term that means “to cease being visible, vanish, disappear.”

Many teach that the coming of Christ in Mat. 24 to gather his elect is His descent to the earth to establish God's Kingdom, rather than a descent to the sphere of the clouds to gather the elect and bring them to heaven.

...and they shall gather his elect from (out of Gr.1537) the four winds (the four corners of the earth, the earthy sphere) from (away from Gr.575) one end of the heavens (pl.no art) to (unto Gr.2193) the other.

When we turn to Mark 13:27 we shall get more insight into this passage.

shall gather his elect from (out of Gr.1537) the four winds (earthy sphere) away from (Gr.575) the one end of earth unto (Gr.2193) the end of the Heaven (sing).

The one end of the heavens in Matthew is explained in Mark as being the one end of the earth. The unto the other (end of the heavens) in Matthew is explained in Mark as, "the" Heaven, the abode of GOD, that the great multitude which came out of (Gr.1537) the tribulation were delivered unto (Rev.7:14; Mt.24:13,22,29-31).
After the day of the Lord's judgments, the Lord will indeed return to establish his kingdom, but before this, the elect will be saved from the persecutions of the tribulation and delivered from the wrath of God that is to come upon the earth.

Davy · Apr 8, 2023

eleos1954 said:
There isn't a pre-trib rapture ..... when He returns .... the first resurrection happens and the saved (for all times) are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years .... everything on planet earth is destroyed (not habitable) ... but this is not the full end. The only "rapture" that takes place
is the 1st resurrection (of the saved) and they are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years (not the full end)

I beg to differ on the taken to heaven part. I agree there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture written in God's Word. But when Jesus comes, per Zechariah 14, He gathers His elect and they go with Him to the Mount of Olives here, on earth, east of Jerusalem, as written. That is where Lord Jesus is headed to when He comes, and that is where He reigns from with His elect for that 1,000 years of Rev.20.

The destruction upon the surface of the earth on the "day of the Lord", per Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:10 is going to burn 'man's works' off this earth, not literally destroy the earth. And the testimony of Zechariah 14 about Christ's future reign upon the earth after that "day of the Lord" is proof that God's Works will not be included in that destruction.

And even in Revelation 11 we are told that only a tenth of the city of Jerusalem will be destroyed on that day. And in Revelation 16 we are told the great city is divided into 3 parts on that day, not destroyed, but divided into 3 parts.

eleos1954 said:
John 5:28-29 (judgement has taken place) and all people will be removed from the earth 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. At that time, the Bible plainly teaches that this material planet, and everything in it, will be destroyed by fire.

That is not what John 5:28-29 says; there is nothing there about anyone being removed from the earth. You are listening to some preacher that doesn't know what they're talking about. That Scripture is Jesus declaring on the day of His future coming ALL... in the graves will come forth, those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". That's it, that's all it says.

So by that, it is about the general resurrection of the dead on the day of Christ's return, because the wicked dead are raised on that day too. But that is ONLY about those have died. It not about anyone still alive on that day of Jesus' return. And according to Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4, Jesus brings those saints that had died with Him when He comes, and where is Jesus going to be coming from? FROM HEAVEN.

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
KJV

For those still alive, there will two groups also, those of His that will be "caught up" to Him and those raised saints He brings with Him, and they all go with Him to the Mount of Olives...

Zech 14:3-5
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

Some Churches err in thinking all the Old Testament Books are past history. They are not. I have not found that many Christian brethren that have actually read the Zechariah 14 Chapter of HOW Lord Jesus returns to this earth, which is the same spot where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1, i.e., the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem.

Davy · Apr 8, 2023

Antonio39 said:
Not understanding the difference of the revelation given to Paul after Acts 28. will not allow you to be enlightened to this this and its purpose because you will compare it with previous hopes and instructions, this is how the devil has blinded us from our present Ministery. So, the first thing I want you to do is a study of what the appointed seasons are in the O.T, and study the word "Purpose" in verse Eph.1:11; 3:11 and how is it used in the rest of the N.T. Also, what was to be holy and without blemish in the OT, and what was its purpose? Do this and I will answer your question. but you will have to be familiar with these subjects first for you to see.

Aw... there's those doctrines of men created by false prophets like H.R.Stam and associates, called Hyper-Dispensationalism. Darby's 1830's Dispensationalism was bad enough, as it was designed to support his false teaching of a pre-trib rapture theory. But this Hyper-Dispensationalist stuff that branched off of Darby is even worse.

So it is real... funny when you types say others don't understand the "difference of the revelation given to Paul after Acts 28"! That doctrine is so ignorant and proof of man's secularist thinking of the world it's pathetic, because Apostle Paul would NEVER allow what he taught to be as mixed up and misconstrued as what Hyper-Dispensationalists teach. And that "previous hopes and instructions" is even MORE of a pathetic idea by the group of men's doctrines you follow!

In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, Apostle Paul was teaching about the day of Christ's return and gathering of His saints WHICH LORD JESUS TAUGHT IN HIS OLIVET DISCOURSE...

The following part in 'red' by Paul...

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
KJV

... goes with this below part in red that Jesus taught...

Matt 24:31
31 And He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Those above are the 'asleep' in Christ. Jesus raises those and brings them WITH HIM from Heaven. That's what Paul said, and it is also what Jesus showed in the above, "from one end of heaven to the other". But the saints that are still alive at that time, hang on, for Jesus covered that also in the Mark 13 version of this...

The following part in red by Paul...

1 Thess 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

... goes with the following part in red taught by Lord Jesus...

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

So... Apostle Paul TAUGHT THE SAME THING THAT JESUS DID IN HIS OLIVET DISCOURSE ABOUT THE GATHERING OF HIS CHURCH. We could even say that Apostle Paul GOT THAT TEACHING OF 1 THESSALONIANS 4 DIRECTLY FROM LORD JESUS!

Now then, WHERE is that "heaven" where they are gathered to with Jesus? ANSWER: ON EARTH! How can we know... that? Because to the Mount of Olives at JERUSALEM ON EARTH is where God's Word reveals Jesus returns to WITH ALL HIS SAINTS, PER ZECHARIAH 14!

What you guys on false Dispensationalism aren't being taught is 1 Corinthians 15 BY APOSTLE PAUL. If you had been, you would understand how the Heavenly dimension is going to be manifested HERE, ON EARTH, when Jesus returns!

You instead are too busy playing men's games of men's traditions, and whatever other false doctrines you can dream up that tries to destroy what God's Word as written actually teaches!

Davy · Apr 8, 2023

So one discovers, from STAYING in God's Word as written, is that Apostle Paul taught the SAME doctrine as Lord Jesus did about how He will gather His Church when He comes.

And WHEN did Jesus say is the time of His coming to gather His saints, His Church?

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Oh... but the Dispensationalists don't like for me to SHOW that, because to be a Dispensationalist, including a Hyper-Grace (Hyper-Dispensationalist) means believing Darby's false 1830s Pre-tribulational Rapture doctrine from men! They instead preach the LIE that Jesus comes PRIOR to that tribulation to gather His Church.

Of course then, they also do not like anyone showing how what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 agrees directly with what Jesus taught above (and in Mark 13:24-27), i.e., that He comes "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" to gather His Church!

eleos1954 · Apr 8, 2023

Davy said:
I agree with most of that, except the rapture to heaven away from the earth part, which is an idea of Dispensationalism and a pre-trib rapture theory.

Also, the Pre-trib Rapture school has a propensity to preach that the very end (i.e., great tribulation) is going to be like all out chaos and war, when God's Word does not teach that.

When Lord Jesus said there will be 'wars and rumors of wars', He also said to not be worried, because the end is not yet. That means when wars and rumors of war have stopped... then be worried, because that means the 'end' is here, and that means the time of "great tribulation". The times before that, like wars, earthquakes, pestilences, etc., is for the time Jesus called "the beginning of sorrows" that is a precursor to the "great tribulation". The trib is to be a time of "Peace and safety" Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thess.5. And that also is shown per Daniel 8 about the end.

Look for a thread I plan to do on this identifying the "great tribulation" matter.

The only "rapture" there is ..... is the 1st resurrection and that happens when Jesus returns and takes all the saved to heaven.

Davy · Apr 8, 2023

eleos1954 said:
The only "rapture" there is ..... is the 1st resurrection and that happens when Jesus returns and takes all the saved to heaven.

I agree Jesus comes FROM Heaven when He comes, and per Paul He brings the 'asleep' saints with Him, and Heaven will then be ON EARTH.

You like many of my Christian brethren, are lacking understanding of what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 and Isaiah 25 on the day when Jesus returns. Not just those in Christ still alive will be 'changed' to the "spiritual body" on the "last trump", but ALL... peoples will be changed to a spiritual body.

It's those on a false pre-trib rapture theory that believe we are raptured off the earth to live up in Heaven, when it is written that Jesus is COMING HERE ON EARTH, where He ascended from as a matter of fact. So if you refuse to accept that Biblical fact, like Acts 1 and Zechariah 14, then I must disregard you as pushing falseness of men's agendas, and not staying in God's Holy Writ.

eleos1954 · Apr 8, 2023

Davy said:
I beg to differ on the taken to heaven part. I agree there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture written in God's Word. But when Jesus comes, per Zechariah 14, He gathers His elect and they go with Him to the Mount of Olives here, on earth, east of Jerusalem, as written. That is where Lord Jesus is headed to when He comes, and that is where He reigns from with His elect for that 1,000 years of Rev.20.

The destruction upon the surface of the earth on the "day of the Lord", per Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:10 is going to burn 'man's works' off this earth, not literally destroy the earth. And the testimony of Zechariah 14 about Christ's future reign upon the earth after that "day of the Lord" is proof that God's Works will not be included in that destruction.

And even in Revelation 11 we are told that only a tenth of the city of Jerusalem will be destroyed on that day. And in Revelation 16 we are told the great city is divided into 3 parts on that day, not destroyed, but divided into 3 parts.

That is not what John 5:28-29 says; there is nothing there about anyone being removed from the earth. You are listening to some preacher that doesn't know what they're talking about. That Scripture is Jesus declaring on the day of His future coming ALL... in the graves will come forth, those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". That's it, that's all it says.

So by that, it is about the general resurrection of the dead on the day of Christ's return, because the wicked dead are raised on that day too. But that is ONLY about those have died. It not about anyone still alive on that day of Jesus' return. And according to Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4, Jesus brings those saints that had died with Him when He comes, and where is Jesus going to be coming from? FROM HEAVEN.

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
KJV

For those still alive, there will two groups also, those of His that will be "caught up" to Him and those raised saints He brings with Him, and they all go with Him to the Mount of Olives...

Zech 14:3-5
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

Some Churches err in thinking all the Old Testament Books are past history. They are not. I have not found that many Christian brethren that have actually read the Zechariah 14 Chapter of HOW Lord Jesus returns to this earth, which is the same spot where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1, i.e., the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem.

You are dismissing the New Jerusalem that descends from heaven.

The New Jerusalem is what Abraham saw by faith. “For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10)

Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband” (Revelation 21:2).

OT contains both historical and.or prophetic elements.

God don't dwell in earthly temples.

Acts 7
48However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: 49‘Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord, or where will My place of repose be?…

eleos1954 · Apr 8, 2023

Antonio39 said:
Many teach that the coming of Christ in Mat. 24 to gather his elect is His descent to the earth to establish God's Kingdom, rather than a descent to the sphere of the clouds to gather the elect and bring them to heaven.

When we turn to Mark 13:27 we shall get more insight into this passage.

The one end of the heavens in Matthew is explained in Mark as being the one end of the earth. The unto the other (end of the heavens) in Matthew is explained in Mark as, "the" Heaven, the abode of GOD, that the great multitude which came out of (Gr.1537) the tribulation were delivered unto (Rev.7:14; Mt.24:13,22,29-31).
After the day of the Lord's judgments, the Lord will indeed return to establish his kingdom, but before this, the elect will be saved from the persecutions of the tribulation and delivered from the wrath of God that is to come upon the earth.

All go through the great tribulation .... but it will be cut short.

Matthew 24

…21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

eleos1954 · Apr 8, 2023

Davy said:
I beg to differ on the taken to heaven part. I agree there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture written in God's Word. But when Jesus comes, per Zechariah 14, He gathers His elect and they go with Him to the Mount of Olives here, on earth, east of Jerusalem, as written. That is where Lord Jesus is headed to when He comes, and that is where He reigns from with His elect for that 1,000 years of Rev.20.

The destruction upon the surface of the earth on the "day of the Lord", per Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:10 is going to burn 'man's works' off this earth, not literally destroy the earth. And the testimony of Zechariah 14 about Christ's future reign upon the earth after that "day of the Lord" is proof that God's Works will not be included in that destruction.

And even in Revelation 11 we are told that only a tenth of the city of Jerusalem will be destroyed on that day. And in Revelation 16 we are told the great city is divided into 3 parts on that day, not destroyed, but divided into 3 parts.

That is not what John 5:28-29 says; there is nothing there about anyone being removed from the earth. You are listening to some preacher that doesn't know what they're talking about. That Scripture is Jesus declaring on the day of His future coming ALL... in the graves will come forth, those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". That's it, that's all it says.

So by that, it is about the general resurrection of the dead on the day of Christ's return, because the wicked dead are raised on that day too. But that is ONLY about those have died. It not about anyone still alive on that day of Jesus' return. And according to Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4, Jesus brings those saints that had died with Him when He comes, and where is Jesus going to be coming from? FROM HEAVEN.

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
KJV

For those still alive, there will two groups also, those of His that will be "caught up" to Him and those raised saints He brings with Him, and they all go with Him to the Mount of Olives...

Zech 14:3-5
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

Some Churches err in thinking all the Old Testament Books are past history. They are not. I have not found that many Christian brethren that have actually read the Zechariah 14 Chapter of HOW Lord Jesus returns to this earth, which is the same spot where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1, i.e., the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem.

Judgement has to take place before His return .... else the 1st resurrection (of the saved) can not take place.

It's like in the days of Noah .... the Lord judged the earth's inhabitants at that time .... and swept them all away by the flood ... except for a small remnant (Noah and his family) ... if He hadn't mankind would have totally destroyed themselves .... we are going down that same path of self-destruction .... but this time He will return and end it for eternity.

He's returning in FULL glory .... those taken to heaven are glorified with Him and can withstand the fiery presence of the Lord .... the rest will be "toast" until after the 1,000 years and THEN they will be resurrected mortal (subject to the 2nd death (lake of fire) - death for eternity)

“For our ‘God is a consuming fire’” (Hebrews 12:29).

Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are afraid; trembling grips the ungodly: "Who of us can dwell with a consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting flames?"

Psalm 97:3
Fire goes before Him and consumes His foes on every side.

Hebrews 10:27
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Antonio39 · Apr 8, 2023

eleos1954 said:
All go through the great tribulation .... but it will be cut short.

Matthew 24

…21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

soon after the tribulation (the persecutions) the sighs will appear in heaven the days will be cut short for the elects' sake by Christ, who then will deliver them to heaven out of the persecutions by his heavenly descent with his angels Rev 7:14-15;11:19); the great multitude is in heaven, I mean come on if we can't admit that I don't know. "One shall be taken the other left", this is typified with Elijah or Enoch. this is the Parousia (G3952) hope, which is prophetic, and is no longer the hope of Paul's post acts epistles, the hope for today is the appearing (epiphaneia G2015) with Christ at Gods right hand (Col.3:1-4; Tit.2:13; 1 Tim.6:14; 2Tim.4:1,8)

p

eleos1954 said:
All go through the great tribulation .... but it will be cut short

Matthew 24

…21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Antonio39 · Apr 8, 2023

Davy said:
Aw... there's those doctrines of men created by false prophets like H.R.Stam and associates, called Hyper-Dispensationalism. Darby's 1830's Dispensationalism was bad enough, as it was designed to support his false teaching of a pre-trib rapture theory. But this Hyper-Dispensationalist stuff that branched off of Darby is even worse.

So it is real... funny when you types say others don't understand the "difference of the revelation given to Paul after Acts 28"! That doctrine is so ignorant and proof of man's secularist thinking of the world it's pathetic, because Apostle Paul would NEVER allow what he taught to be as mixed up and misconstrued as what Hyper-Dispensationalists teach. And that "previous hopes and instructions" is even MORE of a pathetic idea by the group of men's doctrines you follow!

In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, Apostle Paul was teaching about the day of Christ's return and gathering of His saints WHICH LORD JESUS TAUGHT IN HIS OLIVET DISCOURSE...

The following part in 'red' by Paul...

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
KJV

... goes with this below part in red that Jesus taught...

Matt 24:31
31 And He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Those above are the 'asleep' in Christ. Jesus raises those and brings them WITH HIM from Heaven. That's what Paul said, and it is also what Jesus showed in the above, "from one end of heaven to the other". But the saints that are still alive at that time, hang on, for Jesus covered that also in the Mark 13 version of this...

The following part in red by Paul...

1 Thess 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

... goes with the following part in red taught by Lord Jesus...

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

So... Apostle Paul TAUGHT THE SAME THING THAT JESUS DID IN HIS OLIVET DISCOURSE ABOUT THE GATHERING OF HIS CHURCH. We could even say that Apostle Paul GOT THAT TEACHING OF 1 THESSALONIANS 4 DIRECTLY FROM LORD JESUS!

Now then, WHERE is that "heaven" where they are gathered to with Jesus? ANSWER: ON EARTH! How can we know... that? Because to the Mount of Olives at JERUSALEM ON EARTH is where God's Word reveals Jesus returns to WITH ALL HIS SAINTS, PER ZECHARIAH 14!

What you guys on false Dispensationalism aren't being taught is 1 Corinthians 15 BY APOSTLE PAUL. If you had been, you would understand how the Heavenly dimension is going to be manifested HERE, ON EARTH, when Jesus returns!

You instead are too busy playing men's games of men's traditions, and whatever other false doctrines you can dream up that tries to destroy what God's Word as written actually teaches!

Question how come the hope of the coming Parousia (G3952) is not used in Paul's post acts epistles not even the word coming? how come you can't find the name Abraham, the new Jerusalem, or mention of the new covenant in Paul's prison epistles? How come in only Paul's post acts epistles do you find the phrase New man? and the hope is the appearing with Christ at the right hand in Heaven (Col.3:1-4) how come?
furthermore, who was the new covenant made to? traditions of Men? read it and see if it lines up with your understanding (Jer.31-40) I will enjoy your explanation?

Antonio39 · Apr 8, 2023

Antonio39 said:
Question how come the hope of the coming Parousia (G3952) is not used in Paul's post acts epistles not even the word coming? how come you can't find the name Abraham, the new Jerusalem, or mention of the new covenant in Paul's prison epistles? How come in only Paul's post acts epistles do you find the phrase New man? and the hope is the appearing with Christ at the right hand in Heaven (Col.3:1-4) how come?
furthermore, who was the new covenant made to? traditions of Men? read it and see if it lines up with your understanding (Jer.31:31-40) I will enjoy your explanation? oh, and why where all the apostles still offering animal sacrifices 20 years after Jesus' death (Acts.21:20-27cp. Num.6)

The Revelation of the Mystery.The working service of the saints for the restoration of the cosmos

Active Member

God is Love

Active Member

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Well-Known Member

God is Love

God is Love

God is Love

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Similar threads