• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Vatican repudiates colonial-era 'doctrine of discovery', used to justify European conquest of colonies and slavery

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
42,801
45,902
Los Angeles Area
✟1,019,643.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
The Vatican on Thursday formally repudiated the colonial-era "doctrine of discovery", used centuries ago to justify European conquests of Africa and the Americas, saying "it is not part of Catholic Church teaching".

The Vatican acknowledged in a statement from its culture and human development departments that papal documents from the 15th century were used by colonial powers to give legitimacy to their actions, which included slavery.

"Historical research clearly demonstrates that the papal documents in question, written in a specific historical period and linked to political questions, have never been considered expressions of the Catholic faith," the departments said.

They said they "were manipulated for political purposes by competing colonial powers in order to justify immoral acts against indigenous peoples that were carried out, at times, without opposition from ecclesiastical authorities".

"It is only just to recognise these errors, acknowledge the terrible effects of the assimilation policies and the pain experienced by indigenous peoples, and ask for pardon," they said.

--

This "Doctrine of Discovery" became the basis of all European claims in the Americas as well as the foundation for the United States’ western expansion. In the US Supreme Court in the 1823 case Johnson v. McIntosh, Chief Justice John Marshall’s opinion in the unanimous decision held "that the principle of discovery gave European nations an absolute right to New World lands."
 
  • Informative
Reactions: wing2000

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,753
19,413
Colorado
✟542,036.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Yes, but in keeping with Vatican timeframes.

1992: exonerates Galileo
2000: apology for the Inquisition
Churches are loath to admit old errors which might open the door to question various contemporary positions they hold.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,511
20,794
Orlando, Florida
✟1,519,138.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
It was more a question of getting the right Pope in office. Francis has done alot to try to repair relationships with indigenous peoples, as he himself comes from a continent where indigenous peoples are salient parts of most of the nations present there.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: USincognito
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,876
9,490
Florida
✟376,699.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The Vatican on Thursday formally repudiated the colonial-era "doctrine of discovery", used centuries ago to justify European conquests of Africa and the Americas, saying "it is not part of Catholic Church teaching".

The Vatican acknowledged in a statement from its culture and human development departments that papal documents from the 15th century were used by colonial powers to give legitimacy to their actions, which included slavery.

"Historical research clearly demonstrates that the papal documents in question, written in a specific historical period and linked to political questions, have never been considered expressions of the Catholic faith," the departments said.

They said they "were manipulated for political purposes by competing colonial powers in order to justify immoral acts against indigenous peoples that were carried out, at times, without opposition from ecclesiastical authorities".

"It is only just to recognise these errors, acknowledge the terrible effects of the assimilation policies and the pain experienced by indigenous peoples, and ask for pardon," they said.

--

This "Doctrine of Discovery" became the basis of all European claims in the Americas as well as the foundation for the United States’ western expansion. In the US Supreme Court in the 1823 case Johnson v. McIntosh, Chief Justice John Marshall’s opinion in the unanimous decision held "that the principle of discovery gave European nations an absolute right to New World lands."

Also know as "right of conquest". It's something that has been practiced by every society in human history.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,511
20,794
Orlando, Florida
✟1,519,138.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Also know as "right of conquest". It's something that has been practiced by every society in human history.

The Doctrine of Discovery was quite novel in human history. Countries like China only conquered peoples that attacked them first, for instance, expanding organically. The Doctrine of Discovery gave a moral mandate to Europeans to establish colonies on the other side of the globe, for the purposes of economic exploitation and enslavement of native peoples.
 
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,876
9,490
Florida
✟376,699.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The Doctrine of Discovery was quite novel in human history. Countries like China only conquered peoples that attacked them first, for instance, expanding organically. The Doctrine of Discovery gave a moral mandate to Europeans to establish colonies on the other side of the globe, for the purposes of economic exploitation and enslavement of native peoples.

Does that also exclude the Huns, Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Qin, Imperial Japan, Alexander the Great, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Muslim conquest of North Africa and invasion of Europe, the Muscogee Creek genocide of the Mississippian Mound Builders of southwest Georgia, the Cherokee genocide of the Mississippian Mound Builders of northeast Georgia, the Lakota conquest of the Cheyenne, etc.

It's a very long list.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,511
20,794
Orlando, Florida
✟1,519,138.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Does that also exclude the Huns, Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Qin, Imperial Japan, Alexander the Great, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Muslim conquest of North Africa and invasion of Europe, the Muscogee Creek genocide of the Mississippian Mound Builders of southwest Georgia, the Cherokee genocide of the Mississippian Mound Builders of northeast Georgia, the Lakota conquest of the Cheyenne, etc.

It's a very long list.

Those people didn't claim to speak for Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,876
9,490
Florida
✟376,699.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Those people didn't claim to speak for Jesus Christ.

Whether someone claimed to speak for Jesus Christ or not really doesn't change anything. If you want to condemn what the Conquistadors did you can go right ahead. I condemn it also. And I condemn very specific acts, not just the totality. Just please don't act they were the only ones doing it. And a lot of the others didn't claim to speak for God, they claimed to be god.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Raised by bees
Mar 11, 2017
22,140
16,655
55
USA
✟419,689.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The Vatican on Thursday formally repudiated the colonial-era "doctrine of discovery", used centuries ago to justify European conquests of Africa and the Americas, saying "it is not part of Catholic Church teaching".

The Vatican acknowledged in a statement from its culture and human development departments that papal documents from the 15th century were used by colonial powers to give legitimacy to their actions, which included slavery.

"Historical research clearly demonstrates that the papal documents in question, written in a specific historical period and linked to political questions, have never been considered expressions of the Catholic faith," the departments said.

They said they "were manipulated for political purposes by competing colonial powers in order to justify immoral acts against indigenous peoples that were carried out, at times, without opposition from ecclesiastical authorities".

"It is only just to recognise these errors, acknowledge the terrible effects of the assimilation policies and the pain experienced by indigenous peoples, and ask for pardon," they said.

--

This "Doctrine of Discovery" became the basis of all European claims in the Americas as well as the foundation for the United States’ western expansion. In the US Supreme Court in the 1823 case Johnson v. McIntosh, Chief Justice John Marshall’s opinion in the unanimous decision held "that the principle of discovery gave European nations an absolute right to New World lands."

I'm not really hearing what should be heard. This all seems kind of weaselly.

Try this out Mr. Vatican spokesman:

"Nostra culpa."
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,753
19,413
Colorado
✟542,036.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Whether someone claimed to speak for Jesus Christ or not really doesn't change anything. If you want to condemn what the Conquistadors did you can go right ahead. I condemn it also. And I condemn very specific acts, not just the totality. Just please don't act they were the only ones doing it. And a lot of the others didn't claim to speak for God, they claimed to be god.
The salient issue to me is that the Catholic Church is an ongoing institution. Its existence is justified by claims of continuity back to the apostles.

Wheres the Mongol Kingdom? Its long gone - and good riddance. There is no Mongol Kingdom here to reckon with atrocities and atrocious doctrine. If the Catholic Church wants to claim any moral authority it has to acknowledge its sometimes horrific moral failures.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,511
20,794
Orlando, Florida
✟1,519,138.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The salient issue to me is that the Catholic Church is an ongoing institution. Its existence is justified by claims of continuity back to the apostles.

Where the Mongol Kingdom? Its long gone - and good riddance. There is no Mongol Kingdom here to reckon with atrocities and atrocious doctrine. If the Catholic Church wants to claim any moral authority it has to acknowledge its sometimes horrific moral failures.

If the Catholic church wants to have good relations with native peoples, they have to acknowledge their role in causing alot of the pain and suffering those people endured. And since they claim to represent universal and transcendent truths that are relevant to everyone, apologizing isn't optional.
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
42,801
45,902
Los Angeles Area
✟1,019,643.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Wheres the Mongol Kingdom? Its long gone - and good riddance.

As is the "doctrine of discovery" or "right of conquest" in modern international law.

Whether in Kuwait or Ukraine or the Occupied Territories, international law does not legitimize such conquests.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: durangodawood
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,876
9,490
Florida
✟376,699.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
As is the "doctrine of discovery" or "right of conquest" in modern international law.

Whether in Kuwait or Ukraine or the Occupied Territories, international law does not legitimize such conquests.
International law hasn't acknowledged it since world war II. It's one of the reasons why the UN was founded.
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
22,766
14,055
Earth
✟247,484.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
How is conquest no longer considered a Godly act when the OT is full of it ?

Do we need apologies for Sodom and Jericho?
Maybe basing one’s moral code on Bronze-age history isn’t the way to go?
 
  • Like
Reactions: public hermit
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,618
10,425
79
Auckland
✟442,700.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Maybe basing one’s moral code on Bronze-age history isn’t the way to go?

Yes - I guess the temptation to toss out the bible is always there...
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
22,766
14,055
Earth
✟247,484.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
Yes - I guess the temptation to toss out the bible is always there...
As I recall my John, Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to “lead you into all truth”, but Christianity, (it would seem) settled for the Bible.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: public hermit
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,753
19,413
Colorado
✟542,036.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Yes - I guess the temptation to toss out the bible is always there...
No need to toss it out. We just should acknowledge that various practices and event that were sanctioned in the OT are now considered rather abhorrent. Like the buying and selling of people. Or killing deliberately killing babies in war.

Clearly the whole of the Bible, "old" and "new" is an account of human moral evolution. Believers may believe its a record of God prodding us along the path of moral growth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: public hermit
Upvote 0