WHERE DO BELIEVERS GO AFTER THEY DIE ?

Clare73 · Mar 8, 2023

Clare73 said:
The everlasting kingdom (Lk 1:33) is now (Mt 12:28).

timothyu said:
Of course but this world has not yet come to it's end and the age of the gentiles is not yet complete.

There is only one everlasting kingdom of God, set up at the first coming of Christ

timothyu · Mar 8, 2023

Clare73 said:
There is only one everlasting kingdom of God, set up at the first coming of Christ

There is Kingdom/governance and Kingdom/world. Jesus said He was going to prepare a place for us. No mention of it being delivered as of yet unless some lowlife stole it off the front step..

Clare73 · Mar 9, 2023

timothyu said:
There is Kingdom/governance and Kingdom/world. Jesus said He was going to prepare a place for us. No mention of it being delivered as of yet unless some lowlife stole it off the front step..

Not in the NT.

timothyu · Mar 9, 2023

Clare73 said:
Not in the NT.

The king of a kingdom rules, hence governance and of course the kingdom is a place a king rules. God coming to establish His Kingdom and rule overman is governance and the world will be his Kingdom. Meanwhile living now by putting His will ahead of our own is accepting and living by His governance. Not that difficult.

Clare73 · Mar 9, 2023

timothyu said:
The king of a kingdom rules, hence governance and of course the kingdom is a place a king rules. God coming to establish His Kingdom and rule overman is governance and the world will be his Kingdom. Meanwhile living now by putting His will ahead of our own is accepting and living by His governance. Not that difficult.

Not the NT meaning.
It is not of this earth (Jn 18:36), it is invisible, within you. (Lk 17:20-21).

timothyu · Mar 9, 2023

Clare73 said:
it is invisible, within you.

As I said... Meanwhile living now by putting His will ahead of our own is accepting and living by His governance. Tha is our connection to the Kingdom for the moment

Ain't Zwinglian · Mar 9, 2023

Clare73 said:
Jesus said the kingdom of God has come (Mt 12:48),
it is not of this world (Jn 18:36),
but of the spiritual world, invisible and within (Lk 17:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules, and
it is without end (Lk 1:33).

We are in the everlasting kingdom of God now, and will translate with it wherever it is.

As a succinct definition of KoG can get. Very Good.

Dan Perez · Mar 10, 2023

sandman said:
People say a lot of things regarding death because it is a horrible thing and so final in this realm.

Maybe that is why The Bible uses the metaphor of “sleep” at times …it softens the blow.

If you think about it sleep is a great metaphor.
If you have a good nights sleep your next moment of consciousness is waking up… With death, the next moment of consciousness is the trumpet of God for those under this covenant…………… And the angel’s trumpets for those before Pentecost at the day of the Lord resurrection.

The Bible does not teach a wait station or purgatory…or immediately beamed up to heaven.

As for dying at birth ….there is not much …but we do know that children (before the age of accountability, per se’) are sanctified by the believing parents.

How do you ould you say about Rom 9:11 ?

dan p

sandman · Mar 10, 2023

Dan Perez said:
How do you ould you say about Rom 9:11 ?

dan p

Rom 9:11 (For ~~the children~~ being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Here in verse 11 it refers to the act of God choosing Jacob and his descendants, the children of Israel.

Verse 12 Was said to Rebecca regarding God's selection of Jacob over Esau when they were still in the womb it is cited from Gen 25:23

Verse 13 was not cited when they were in the womb… but many years later after Jacob and Esau ….and some of their descendants had an opportunity to practice good or evil…. it is cited from Mal 1:1-3

Dan Perez · Mar 16, 2023

sandman said:
Rom 9:11 (For ~~the children~~ being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Here in verse 11 it refers to the act of God choosing Jacob and his descendants, the children of Israel.

Verse 12 Was said to Rebecca regarding God's selection of Jacob over Esau when they were still in the womb it is cited from Gen 25:23

Verse 13 was not cited when they were in the womb… but many years later after Jacob and Esau ….and some of their descendants had an opportunity to practice good or evil…. it is cited from Mal 1:1-3

But what happens to children that die in the womb OR out of the WOMB , that are saved from Husband and Wife , are , they LOST or SAVED ?

Remember That the B O C was chosen BEFORE / PRO the foundation of the WORLD !!

So when does the bible say when Israel was CHOSEN , it was FROM / APO , the foundation of the WORLD , Matt 13:35

dan p

Daniel Hoseini · Mar 17, 2023

Dan Perez said:
What say you ?

Soul after death, good book to listen

sandman · Mar 17, 2023

Dan Perez said:
But what happens to children that die in the womb OR out of the WOMB , that are saved from Husband and Wife , are , they LOST or SAVED ?

Remember That the B O C was chosen BEFORE / PRO the foundation of the WORLD !!

So when does the bible say when Israel was CHOSEN , it was FROM / APO , the foundation of the WORLD , Matt 13:35

dan p

I have a different take on when life begins….. only shared for the purpose of answering you, I am not debating this, and it does not alter my stance on abortion which I disagree with but not for the same reasons as others.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (nephesh).

Soul life is breath life … The Hebrew word is Nephesh. God tells us exactly where/what soul life is.

Lev 17:11 For the life = (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh): for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (nephesh).

The word life is the word soul ….and the verse states “the soul of the flesh is in the blood…”

Soul life was first created in mammals Gen 1:21 (creature) it’s what gives the body life. When we die …the heart which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that individual person. there is nothing immortal about the soul….as 1Corinthians 15:50 makes clear.

Sorry for the long explanation but as the Word states children are sanctified by their parents…. So a living child even if it took 1 breath and dies is sanctified by parents .

As for in the womb I don’t know and I am not going to guess. Also, with a child who is born to unbelieving parents I don’t know that either other than to use the verse of scripture which states at time of ignorance, God winked. (Acts 16 0r 17… I believe)

IoanC · Mar 17, 2023

It's probably what we are when we die, how we perceive God that might make a difference. Heaven is not a place,but a state of being. It's not as if we are physically transferred elsewhere, but God becomes closer to us and happiness a more profound reality.

Daniel Hoseini · Mar 18, 2023

I have heard someone saw in a vision that when someone ( most probably unrepentant sinner) dies, the demons take him to satan, who asks that soul 3 questions:
- Have you accepted Jesus?
- Have you submitted yourself to Jesus?
- Have you served Jesus?
If the answer to one or all of these questions is no, then that person will be in hell.

Dan Perez · Mar 18, 2023

Daniel Hoseini said:
I have heard someone saw in a vision that when someone ( most probably unrepentant sinner) dies, the demons take him to satan, who asks that soul 3 questions:
- Have you accepted Jesus?
- Have you submitted yourself to Jesus?
- Have you served Jesus?
If the answer to one or all of these questions is no, then that person will be in hell.

I would like to see a verse ,that I can study those 3 questions ?

dan p

Dan Perez · Mar 18, 2023

Clare73 said:
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Co 5:8).
Paul places himself with Christ (Php 1:21-23), as does Jesus with the thief on the cross, at death (Lk 23:43),
which is why "to die is gain." (Php 1:21-23)

I believe in 2 Cor 5:8 , BUT that does not mean that DEATH we are in heaven with Christ !

#1 Because , all that die , their bodies are sleep in the ground UNTIL The RESURRECTION , and until then will we be with Christ as written in 2 Thess 2:1 and 1 Thess 4:13--18 .

#2 Then where are those believers go today ?

This is why some believe in an INTERMEDIATE STATE .

# Could 2 Cor 12:1-4 is where many say Grace believers go at death .

What say you ?

Would like to hear other views ?

dan p

Clare73 · Mar 26, 2023

Clare73 said:
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Co 5:8).
Paul places himself with Christ (Php 1:21-23), as does Jesus with the thief on the cross, at death (Lk 23:43),
which is why "to die is gain." (Php 1:21-23)

Dan Perez said:
I believe in 2 Cor 5:8 , BUT that does not mean that DEATH we are in heaven with Christ !

#1 Because , all that die , their bodies are sleep in the ground UNTIL The RESURRECTION , and until then will we be with Christ as written in 2 Thess 2:1 and 1 Thess 4:13--18 .

#2 Then where are those believers go today ?

This is why some believe in an INTERMEDIATE STATE .

#3 Could 2 Cor 12:1-4 is where many say Grace believers go at death .

What say you ?

Would like to hear other views ?

dan p

#1 Death of the body does not preclude the redeemed immortal human spirit from being with Christ in heaven as demonstrated in the other Scriptures above.

#2 Their bodies are in the ground, their spirits are with Christ, and the two will be reunited at the resurrection of their immortal, sinless, glorious bodies.

#3 2 Co 12:1-4 has nothing to do with the death of anyone else but Paul, it was a special and remarkable experience of Paul where he was taken into the presence of God himself, and was given special revelation from God himself, which Paul was not allowed to reveal.

Dan Perez · Mar 30, 2023

sandman said:
I have a different take on when life begins….. only shared for the purpose of answering you, I am not debating this, and it does not alter my stance on abortion which I disagree with but not for the same reasons as others.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (nephesh).

Soul life is breath life … The Hebrew word is Nephesh. God tells us exactly where/what soul life is.

Lev 17:11 For the life = (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh): for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (nephesh).

The word life is the word soul ….and the verse states “the soul of the flesh is in the blood…”

Soul life was first created in mammals Gen 1:21 (creature) it’s what gives the body life. When we die …the heart which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that individual person. there is nothing immortal about the soul….as 1Corinthians 15:50 makes clear.

Sorry for the long explanation but as the Word states children are sanctified by their parents…. So a living child even if it took 1 breath and dies is sanctified by parents .

As for in the womb I don’t know and I am not going to guess. Also, with a child who is born to unbelieving parents I don’t know that either other than to use the verse of scripture which states at time of ignorance, God winked. (Acts 16 0r 17… I believe)

What do you believe about Luke 1:41 where the babe LEAPED in her womb , and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit !

Seems like babies are alive in the womb , UNLESS they believe that they are NOT alive until after being BORN ??

dan p

WHERE DO BELIEVERS GO AFTER THEY DIE ?

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