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What a mess. I cannot even imagine what things are like right now for those clergy.
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Russian priests may be defrocked.
- Thread starter Lukaris
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gurneyhalleck1
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That is unacceptable. Whether the Church and State are one or not, the Church must have the freedom to criticize and condemn, even if it’s one’s own government.
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gurneyhalleck1
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Is there an English alternate source elsewhere to this news story? Anything out there backing this up?Three hundred Russian Orthodox priests who originally opposed the Ukraine war now face probable defrockment.
THERE ARE THREE HUNDRED PRIESTS ON THE LIST FOR DEVOTIONATION
The editors of the Holy Fire website yesterday, February 8, took the initiative to defrock all the priests who signed in March 2022 an appeal calling for reconciliation and an end to the war.
The editors refer to the fact that "in the history of our Church there was a canonical ban against the clergy who supported the Nazi occupation of our Motherland during the Great Patriotic War."
“We ask the hierarchies of the Russian Orthodox Church to consider the issue of defrocking all the signatories of the vile and treacherous appeal of liberal clergy towards our Motherland and the Russian army, for this appeal is a knife in the back of the Russian soldier who is liberating the world from Nazism, as our fathers heroically did, grandfathers and great-grandfathers during the Great Patriotic War. In essence, this appeal is a call for Russia's surrender to the West."
I found myself in the list at 77th place. Curiously, I always considered seven my lucky number (there are three of them in my date of birth).
Another observation: approximately three hundred priests serve in the Kostroma Metropolis. An interesting idea: with one stroke of the pen to deprive the priesthood of two dioceses at once - Kostroma and Galich. Very deep!
However, nothing tragic: seminaries are "still giving birth"
Lord, have mercy.
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- Aug 3, 2007
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I can’t seem to find anything and taking his word on it. I took notice of Fr Ioann early on in this debacle and have basically trusted his integrity. He was reported on early as being opposed to the invasion of Ukraine. For ex.
www.lemonde.fr
www.newsweek.com
The mystery denunciation of a Russian priest
Father Ioann worked in the parish of Karabanovo in Russia, 400 km from Moscow. He had to leave his position after speaking in favor of peace in Ukraine because his words were immediately reported to the police.
www.lemonde.fr
Russian Priest Arrested for Delivering Sermon Against Ukraine War
The arrest comes amid a broader crackdown on free speech in Russia, where authorities have prohibited media from calling the invasion of Ukraine a "war."
www.newsweek.com
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- Jan 26, 2007
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indeed, that’s the Church’s ideal role, as the prophetic voice in the face of power.
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gurneyhalleck1
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I looked all over online for the OP info elsewhere. Nothing.I can’t seem to find anything and taking his word on it. I took notice of Fr Ioann early on in this debacle and have basically trusted his integrity. He was reported on early as being opposed to the invasion of Ukraine. For ex.
The mystery denunciation of a Russian priest
Father Ioann worked in the parish of Karabanovo in Russia, 400 km from Moscow. He had to leave his position after speaking in favor of peace in Ukraine because his words were immediately reported to the police.
Russian Priest Arrested for Delivering Sermon Against Ukraine War
The arrest comes amid a broader crackdown on free speech in Russia, where authorities have prohibited media from calling the invasion of Ukraine a "war."
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- Nov 16, 2016
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Unless Fr Ioann has been running the almost totally crazy "Holy Fire" site for well over a decade, you can just google translate the link. Should be sufficient?
Обращение редакции сайта «Благодатный Огонь» о лишении сана священнослужителей РПЦ МП, выступивших против спецоперации российской Армии / Православный журнал Благодатный огонь
Православный журнал Благодатный огонь
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Fr Ioann ( Burdin) appears on the list at #77 where his name translates to English as Priest “John“ Burdin.Unless Fr Ioann has been running the almost totally crazy "Holy Fire" site for well over a decade, you can just google translate the link. Should be sufficient?
Обращение редакции сайта «Благодатный Огонь» о лишении сана священнослужителей РПЦ МП, выступивших против спецоперации российской Армии / Православный журнал Благодатный огонь
Православный журнал Благодатный огоньblagogon.ru
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rusmeister
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I would say that there are two slightly different issues: the claim of that article to actually defrock priests, and the punishments that have certainly already taken place that I personally attest to: including, but not limited to demotion, exile (reassignment to an undesirable location with the clear intent to punish, breaking up parishes where people might be dissident minded, ending relationships, placing priests under watchful eyes), and forbidding to serve. The latter has happened and is happening. Actual defrocking is a step from that that is not at all hard to imagine, and for the life of me, may have already happened to some. So I think the article is not at all farfetched. If the priests were themselves trying to engage in politics, to get elected, to adopt a particular earthly ideoplogy, then that would be one thing. But here you are looking at a hierarchy that is willing to engage in secular politics of war at the expense of the Gospel and forbidding priests to beg the governments to end the bloodshed, or even liturgically pray for peace, that serves the state at the expense of the Kingdom. Since 2014, they allowed prayers for ending the bloodshed in the Donbass, but now will not allow them in the Ukraine.
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Patriarch Kirill urges priests to help the Russian military more
11:14 am, January 21, 2023Source: Patriarchate of Moscow
Patriarch Kirill of Moscow believes that the Russian Orthodox Church should do more to help the military, calling on congregations to “mobilize all their parishioners” in a speech published by the Moscow Patriarchate.
“If we say that the Church is with our people, then every congregation should help those who are in the line of fire. We need to mobilize our parishioners to collect things and food. Look for opportunities, collect money, send parcels, if possible go yourself, support service members,” he said during a holiday meal.
During the same speech, Patriarch Kirill compared the war in Ukraine to both the Second World War and the Patriotic War of 1812, when “practically all of Europe united to try to conquer Russia.” Today, added the Patriarch “the whole western world has taken up arms against Russia,” because, he said, Russia offers “a very attractive alternative” to globalization and a general rejection of traditional values.
Patriarch Kirill urges priests to help the Russian military more — Meduza
Patriarch Kirill of Moscow believes that the Russian Orthodox Church should do more to help the military, calling on congregations to “mobilize all their parishioners” in a speech published by the Moscow Patriarchate.
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If I am not mistaken, laicization can later be reversed if it is involuntary. Is this not so? Not that I expect the hierarchy of the ROC to backtrack on this anytime soon, but I mean in principle.
On the more general topic of the possibility of laicization of clergy for the "crime" of not doing exactly what a secular regime orders them to do: what we are witnessing (Rus has attested to plenty of it on this very thread) is a purge. To my knowledge it does not yet involve outright murder of clergy, but it is still a purge: undesirable elements are being removed from positions in what the regime thinks of as just another government office for controlling people. Once no "offending" clergyman is in a position to preach a Christian message about the most pressing spiritual (and political, and social) matter today for every single person in the RF, then the purge will be complete and the faithful will have exactly zero chance of hearing a Christian message preached in their churches about this matter. That is the goal.
On the more general topic of the possibility of laicization of clergy for the "crime" of not doing exactly what a secular regime orders them to do: what we are witnessing (Rus has attested to plenty of it on this very thread) is a purge. To my knowledge it does not yet involve outright murder of clergy, but it is still a purge: undesirable elements are being removed from positions in what the regime thinks of as just another government office for controlling people. Once no "offending" clergyman is in a position to preach a Christian message about the most pressing spiritual (and political, and social) matter today for every single person in the RF, then the purge will be complete and the faithful will have exactly zero chance of hearing a Christian message preached in their churches about this matter. That is the goal.
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- Jan 26, 2007
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yes, that has happened to clergy in the past.
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An important initiative for the unity of the Orthodox Churches in Ukraine
In a move that could prove highly significant, representatives of Ukraine’s two Orthodox Churches (the Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU) and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) of the Patriarchate of Moscow), met last week in an attempt to find common ground.
The inter-church dialogue, as it was called, took place in St Sophia in Kyiv, and led to a text condemning the war and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and was co-signed by clergy and laity (representatives of both Ukrainian jurisdictions).
In the text they came up with at the end of the dialogue, they call on the heads of the two Churches to find common ground and a way to unite the two jurisdictions, for the good of Ukraine.
They also propose the active mediation of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, with the creation of an international platform for dialogue.
(more at link)
An important initiative for the unity of the Orthodox Churches in Ukraine
by Efi Efthimiou In a move that could prove highly significant, representatives of Ukraine's two Orthodox Churches (the Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU) and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) of the Patriarchate of Moscow), met last week in an attempt to find common ground. The...
orthodoxtimes.com
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- Jan 26, 2007
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wow, we’ll see where this leads.An important initiative for the unity of the Orthodox Churches in Ukraine
In a move that could prove highly significant, representatives of Ukraine’s two Orthodox Churches (the Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU) and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) of the Patriarchate of Moscow), met last week in an attempt to find common ground.
The inter-church dialogue, as it was called, took place in St Sophia in Kyiv, and led to a text condemning the war and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and was co-signed by clergy and laity (representatives of both Ukrainian jurisdictions).
In the text they came up with at the end of the dialogue, they call on the heads of the two Churches to find common ground and a way to unite the two jurisdictions, for the good of Ukraine.
They also propose the active mediation of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, with the creation of an international platform for dialogue.
(more at link)
An important initiative for the unity of the Orthodox Churches in Ukraine
by Efi Efthimiou In a move that could prove highly significant, representatives of Ukraine's two Orthodox Churches (the Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU) and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) of the Patriarchate of Moscow), met last week in an attempt to find common ground. The...
Lord have mercy.
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Platina
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The UOC has already many times said what needs to happen for there to be dialogue with the OCU, and the OCU is absolutely unwilling. The idea of calling the EP in for mediation is absolutely delusional.
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In Jordanville we pray for the UOC, and they pray for Ukrainian victory. I know Russian priests that keep quiet. They are being persecuted in Russia. Whomever is being persecuted usually is morally in the right.
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