Should Joe Biden, Donald Trump, and Mike Pence receive the same punishment?

Jermayn · Jan 25, 2023

This question is about losing control/improperly storing classified material and removing it without proper authorization. Please refrain from adding additional charges such as espionage or treason to list. Also, for the purposes of this discussion, intention has no bearing on the base level punishment. Giving the material back has no bearing on the base level punishment. No matter how much you want to believe that should/could be taken into account, it will not be, so don't bother including it into your debate.

Fantine · Jan 25, 2023

OK. The base level punishment should be a fine in a civil action. If intent, obstruction, mass quantity, etc. Is involved, additional felony charges should be brought.

Maria Billingsley · Jan 25, 2023

Jermayn said:
This question is about losing control/improperly storing classified material and removing it without proper authorization. Please refrain from adding additional charges such as espionage or treason to list. Also, for the purposes of this discussion, intention has no bearing on the base level punishment. Giving the material back has no bearing on the base level punishment. No matter how much you want to believe that should/could be taken into account, it will not be, so don't bother including it into your debate.

Apparently it is a common problem, now comming to light as a failed system, so there needs to be an additional procedure before items get loaded. So, no one should be punished.
Blessings

Always in His Presence · Jan 25, 2023

Follow the letter of the law.

The lady is blindfolded and her scales are balanced.

Fantine · Jan 25, 2023

Of course there is a difference between petit larceny (a misdemeanor) as in a few random documents or grand larceny (a felony) as in nine full boxes, perhaps more.

Of course borrowing library books and forgetting to return them is not "larceny" while taking them out of the library without signing them out is.

Blind Justice is not so blind as to be unable to distinguish the difference between a few random documents and nine boxes. Nor is it blind enough to fail to realize the difference between things that are borrowed and returned when found and things that are stolen, concealed, and not returned.

Blade · Jan 25, 2023

Punishment? As Tray Goudy always said "Justice is blind." Well it use to be it is not any more. So many have been getting away with so much vs others doing the same thing and they get as the op said punished.

Jermayn · Jan 25, 2023

Fantine said:
Of course there is a difference between petit larceny (a misdemeanor) as in a few random documents or grand larceny (a felony) as in nine full boxes, perhaps more.

Of course borrowing library books and forgetting to return them is not "larceny" while taking them out of the library without signing them out is.

Blind Justice is not so blind as to be unable to distinguish the difference between a few random documents and nine boxes. Nor is it blind enough to fail to realize the difference between things that are borrowed and returned when found and things that are stolen, concealed, and not returned.

Are you suggesting they "borrowed" classified material...and that it's OK to do so?

JacksBratt · Jan 25, 2023

Jermayn said:
This question is about losing control/improperly storing classified material and removing it without proper authorization. Please refrain from adding additional charges such as espionage or treason to list. Also, for the purposes of this discussion, intention has no bearing on the base level punishment. Giving the material back has no bearing on the base level punishment. No matter how much you want to believe that should/could be taken into account, it will not be, so don't bother including it into your debate.

Simple answer is "no" due to the fact that DT did nothing wrong.... Biden had no right to have any at all.... Don't know a lot about Pence... The law is the law.....

They have been after DT for six years... fake charges and fake inquests.... fake accusations...nothing found that was real.
Meanwhile Biden has real and actual events... so many that you could close your eyes, throw a stick and hit one.
He's done....

Always in His Presence · Jan 26, 2023

Fantine said:
Of course there is a difference between petit larceny (a misdemeanor) as in a few random documents or grand larceny (a felony) as in nine full boxes, perhaps more.

Of course borrowing library books and forgetting to return them is not "larceny" while taking them out of the library without signing them out is.

Blind Justice is not so blind as to be unable to distinguish the difference between a few random documents and nine boxes. Nor is it blind enough to fail to realize the difference between things that are borrowed and returned when found and things that are stolen, concealed, and not returned.

Justice also recognizes whether it is a 'few random documents' or nine boxes - possessing the documents - even one - is breaking the same law.

How exactly did Senator Biden get classified documents out of the SCIFF? That's one interesting question.

JacksBratt · Jan 26, 2023

A reporter has linked one of the emails on Hunter's computer, to someone in the Ukraine.... and one of the documents.

The email is not written in a fashion that any of Hunter's other emails are written. But, it is written exactly like a government document would be written.

If this turns out to be factual... this would like Joe Biden's illegally held top secret documents to the correspondence of confidential government information to or with a foreign entity..

That, is treason.

Valletta · Jan 29, 2023

JacksBratt said:
A reporter has linked one of the emails on Hunter's computer, to someone in the Ukraine.... and one of the documents.

The email is not written in a fashion that any of Hunter's other emails are written. But, it is written exactly like a government document would be written.

If this turns out to be factual... this would like Joe Biden's illegally held top secret documents to the correspondence of confidential government information to or with a foreign entity..

That, is treason.

Joe needs to answer how he filched the classified documents when he was a U.S. Senator. Senators go down to a lower level of the Capitol in a secure room to view declassified records, you have to check in with police and leave your cell phone behind. So how did Joe steal the documents? Sandy Berger was caught with classified documents stuffed down his pants. How did Joe do it? What did he first do with the documents? Where were the classified documents kept over the years and who had access to those documents? With Hunter passing specialized detailed foreign policy information, which sounds like it may have been classified, a full investigation is in order.

JacksBratt · Jan 30, 2023

Valletta said:
Joe needs to answer how he filched the classified documents when he was a U.S. Senator. Senators go down to a lower level of the Capitol in a secure room to view declassified records, you have to check in with police and leave your cell phone behind. So how did Joe steal the documents? Sandy Berger was caught with classified documents stuffed down his pants. How did Joe do it? What did he first do with the documents? Where were the classified documents kept over the years and who had access to those documents? With Hunter passing specialized detailed foreign policy information, which sounds like it may have been classified, a full investigation is in order.

Yes, more information is coming out now. Looks like Hunter, and maybe Joe, sold information to the Chinese government.

I will post it when I have a source that people here will accept.

Semper-Fi · Jan 31, 2023

There’s no hiding Biden’s fright over classified document scandal

There’s no hiding Biden’s fright over classified document scandal

An astonishing fifth trove of classified documents was discovered in the president’s Delaware mansion Friday, not by his own lawyers this time, but during a search by the Department of Justice.

nypost.com

chevyontheriver · Jan 31, 2023

Jermayn said:
Are you suggesting they "borrowed" classified material...and that it's OK to do so?

It’s OK for Democrats. For Republicans it’s treason. Got it?

ViaCrucis · Feb 4, 2023

The law needs to be followed irrespective of political affinity and personal sentiment. Which includes proportionality. From what I understand both Biden and Pence have been very cooperative, and I think that should be taken into consideration.

I don't believe Biden should be treated better than Pence or Trump simply because I tend to vote Democrat, that would be a gross violation of my own principles in political accountability. But I do believe that both Pence and Biden have been more cooperative than Trump has. And that has nothing to do with my political proclivities and leanings.

Follow the law, let the cards fall where they fall. People in power need to be held accountable, and nobody is above the law. Presidents, former presidents, vice presidents, it doesn't matter. Democrat, Republican, Independent, third party. It doesn't matter.

But I do believe that proportionality is a part of that. If Biden did worse than either Pence or Trump, then Biden should face the harshest punishments; if Pence, then Pence, if Trump, then Trump. Let the facts be facts, and weigh everything objectively by whatever courts or systems in place to deal with it, and deal with everything accordingly--completely regardless of anyone's political feelings, sentiments, or proclivities. Tribalism and favoritism never have a place in justice.

-CryptoLutheran

Brihaha · Feb 10, 2023

Oh the irony is humorous, but the details are not. Evidently Trump or an aide made digital copies of some classified information and the classified folder and laptop has been turned over to the DOJ. This is breaking news today. Oh, and the feds found more classified information at the Pence home today as well.

Trump Lawyers Turned Over More Classified Materials And A Laptop To DOJ, Reports Say

The handovers happened in December and January, after the FBI searched Trump’s home last summer, according to CNN, though the content of the documents and information on the computer is not clear.

www.forbes.com

JacksBratt · Feb 10, 2023

Brihaha said:
Oh the irony is humorous, but the details are not. Evidently Trump or an aide made digital copies of some classified information and the classified folder and laptop has been turned over to the DOJ. This is breaking news today. Oh, and the feds found more classified information at the Pence home today as well.

Trump Lawyers Turned Over More Classified Materials And A Laptop To DOJ, Reports Say

The handovers happened in December and January, after the FBI searched Trump’s home last summer, according to CNN, though the content of the documents and information on the computer is not clear.

www.forbes.com

Ya, I'll believe it when I see it. After 6 years of "Trumps going to be indicted today" and "Trumps done now, for sure" and "Trumps going to Jail"...

All I can say is "Yawn"... what else is on CNN.

People forget. DT was the President and holding such office... allows him to decertify anything he wants....

After this long you have got to know that one thing DT is not..... is stupid. He doesn't forget documents in his garage... with his corvette.

Should Joe Biden, Donald Trump, and Mike Pence receive the same punishment?

Should Joe Biden, Donald Trump, and Mike Pence receive the same punishment? Read post before voting.

No. Some should receive lighter/harsher treatment. (Please explain in comments)

No. Other. (Please explain in comments)

Yes. All three should be removed from/barred from public office.

Yes. Other. (Please explain in comments)

Yes. All three should be behind bars.

No one should be punished.

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