Biden administration issues first veto threat to House legislation

ThatRobGuy · Jan 9, 2023

Biden administration issues first veto threat to House legislation

Republicans passed a House rules package Monday in a vote that was seen as an early test of Speaker Kevin McCarthy's ability to lead following last week's prolonged battle to win the gavel. Follow for the latest live news updates.

www.cnn.com

In a sign of what could be to come for the new Congress, the Biden administration says it strongly opposes the first new economic legislation proposed by House Republicans — which would roll back funding for the Internal Revenue Service provided in the Inflation Reduction Act — and vowed that if it passes, President Joe Biden will veto it.

OMB called the bill “reckless,” alleged it would increase the deficit, and wrote it would enable “wealthy tax cheats to engage in additional tax fraud and avoidance.”

“Far from protecting middle-class families or small businesses, H.R. 23 protects wealthy tax cheats at the expense of honest, middle-class taxpayers,” the statement said. “With their first economic legislation of the new Congress, House Republicans are making clear that their top economic priority is to allow the rich and multi-billion dollar corporations to skip out on their taxes, while making life harder for ordinary, middle-class families that pay the taxes they owe.

Mixed feelings about this one. While on one hand, the accusation is true that this is aimed at making the IRS less effective in tracking down the "wealthy tax cheats" (many of whom are political donors)...on the other hand, I've had serious doubts (based on other proposed provisions) about whether or not the original provision to increase the number of IRS funding/agents was purely tailored to go after wealthy people, or if that's just how it was sold to the American people.

HTacianas · Jan 9, 2023

ThatRobGuy said:
Biden administration issues first veto threat to House legislation

Republicans passed a House rules package Monday in a vote that was seen as an early test of Speaker Kevin McCarthy's ability to lead following last week's prolonged battle to win the gavel. Follow for the latest live news updates.

www.cnn.com

In a sign of what could be to come for the new Congress, the Biden administration says it strongly opposes the first new economic legislation proposed by House Republicans — which would roll back funding for the Internal Revenue Service provided in the Inflation Reduction Act — and vowed that if it passes, President Joe Biden will veto it.

OMB called the bill “reckless,” alleged it would increase the deficit, and wrote it would enable “wealthy tax cheats to engage in additional tax fraud and avoidance.”

“Far from protecting middle-class families or small businesses, H.R. 23 protects wealthy tax cheats at the expense of honest, middle-class taxpayers,” the statement said. “With their first economic legislation of the new Congress, House Republicans are making clear that their top economic priority is to allow the rich and multi-billion dollar corporations to skip out on their taxes, while making life harder for ordinary, middle-class families that pay the taxes they owe.

Mixed feelings about this one. While on one hand, the accusation is true that this is aimed at making the IRS less effective in tracking down the "wealthy tax cheats" (many of whom are political donors)...on the other hand, I've had serious doubts (based on other proposed provisions) about whether or not the original provision to increase the number of IRS funding/agents was purely tailored to go after wealthy people, or if that's just how it was sold to the American people.

It was called The Inflation Reduction Act.

sandman · Jan 9, 2023

I think we can be sure that whatever reason they gave (wealthy tax cheats) that is not the true reason...What it is exactly.... I am not sure ....but I believe there is a more sinister motive behind this. It just doesn't make sense 87k new agents and almost 3/4 of a million in (already purchased) ammo ...what the heck ??..............Are they going to shoot people to recover taxes...? ....it makes no sense.

Pommer · Jan 9, 2023

sandman said:
I think we can be sure that whatever reason they gave (wealthy tax cheats) that is not the true reason...What it is exactly.... I am not sure ....but I believe there is a more sinister motive behind this. It just doesn't make sense 87k new agents and almost a quarter million in (already purchased) ammo ...what the heck ??..............Are they going to shoot people to recover taxes...? ....it makes no sense.

Killing taxpayers rarely pays off, that’s probably why it doesn’t ever happen.
Do you think so little of fellow citizens that you believe they’d shoot tax-scofflaws?

wing2000 · Jan 9, 2023

I don't understand how "conservatives" would be opposed to properly restoring the IRS. Is everyone paying their fair share not a conservative value?

Hans Blaster · Jan 9, 2023

wing2000 said:
I don't understand how "conservatives" would be opposed to properly restoring the IRS. Is everyone paying their fair share not a conservative value?

Probably so about conservatives, but the GOP isn't a "conservative" party. It is a party for billionaires fueled by reactionary, anti-modern social populism.

sandman · Jan 9, 2023

Pommer said:
Do you think so little of fellow citizens that you believe they’d shoot tax-scofflaws?

That is cute…

What I think very little of is…. people who redirect and reposition a disgraceful action in an attempt to reverse the intent. This kind of projection is the designation of things to others that are actually attributable to oneself…. and is a way of avoiding taking ownership for one’s actions…. Or, in this case the Biden administration’s actions.
If you want to carry his water you bear the responsibility of the one you support. He is the one who requested the agents be armed. And he is the one who paid for and stockpiled almost ¾ of a million … so where does the onus belong?

Hans Blaster · Jan 9, 2023

sandman said:
That is cute…

What I think very little of is…. people who redirect and reposition a disgraceful action in an attempt to reverse the intent. This kind of projection is the designation of things to others that are actually attributable to oneself…. and is a way of avoiding taking ownership for one’s actions…. Or, in this case the Biden administration’s actions.
If you want to carry his water you bear the responsibility of the one you support. He is the one who requested the agents be armed. And he is the one who paid for and stockpiled almost ¾ of a million … so where does the onus belong?

As for onus, you could start by telling us how many armed agents it would take to fire 700,000 rounds of ammunition in a single year of firearms proficiency training. You seem hung up on this fact, so let's look into it.

Arcangl86 · Jan 9, 2023

sandman said:
I think we can be sure that whatever reason they gave (wealthy tax cheats) that is not the true reason...What it is exactly.... I am not sure ....but I believe there is a more sinister motive behind this. It just doesn't make sense 87k new agents and almost a quarter million in (already purchased) ammo ...what the heck ??..............Are they going to shoot people to recover taxes...? ....it makes no sense.

It's not 87k new agents, or even 87k more enforcement personnel, but 87k new employees total. Over the course of the next 10 years. And in those same 10 years about 50k are expected to retire. So that's a net increase of about 27k new personnel, over 10 years, for a total of about 106k employees total. 10 years ago the IRS was at 91kish employees, so this will bring us to about a 15% increase in size over were the agency was 20 years before the staffing increase is done. As of the last census the US population has grown around 7% according to the census. But that was a low count, and assuming the population increases about 10%, which would be lower then most years, by the time the hiring authority expires the population of the united states would be roughly 15% over that of 10 years ago. So it's actually not a meaningful expansion at all.

And as for the ammo, the IRS has, and has had for over 100 years, a criminal investigative branch that is responsible for investigating tax crimes. They famously brought down Al Capone and to this day still do a large amount of organized crime work. But because they do criminal investigations and are law enforcement, they are armed. There's about 2200 of them, which works out to be about 100 rounds per agent. That's not that much, especially since they are required to qualify on their service weapon twice a year. So there is no reason to suspect anything sinister here.

Aryeh Jay · Jan 10, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
Probably so about conservatives, but the GOP isn't a "conservative" party. It is a party for billionaires fueled by reactionary, anti-modern social populism.

I had no idea that so many billionaires lived in the trailer parks of west Michigan.

Desk trauma · Jan 10, 2023

Aryeh Jay said:
I had no idea that so many billionaires lived in the trailer parks of west Michigan.

The temporarily inconvenienced ones live there.

RDKirk · Jan 10, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
As for onus, you could start by telling us how many armed agents it would take to fire 700,000 rounds of ammunition in a single year of firearms proficiency training. You seem hung up on this fact, so let's look into it.

If I could get the government to pay for it, I'd train weekly, shooting 200 rounds each session. I'd skip a couple of weeks for vacation.

So, 10,000 rounds annually just for me.

ThatRobGuy · Jan 10, 2023

wing2000 said:
I don't understand how "conservatives" would be opposed to properly restoring the IRS. Is everyone paying their fair share not a conservative value?

Properly restoring it to what time period's version of the IRS?

While I think some people sincerely view it as a noble goal (even those advocating for the policies), a pinch of pragmatism shows that the IRS typically ends up going for the lowest hanging fruit.

Looking at past auditing behaviors:
Among families that benefited from the earned income tax credit, a rebate on income and payroll taxes made available to the nation's poorest families, 1.27 percent were audited. The IRS in 2022 audited just 0.19 percent of the vast majority of taxpayers, meaning the poorest families were at least 550 percent more likely to have the IRS knock on their door than the average filer.

Auditing rich people is a difficult time consuming task, auditing lower income people is easier since they don't have a team of lawyers representing them like a wealthy CEO would.

spiritfilledjm · Jan 10, 2023

Pommer said:
Killing taxpayers rarely pays off, that’s probably why it doesn’t ever happen.
Do you think so little of fellow citizens that you believe they’d shoot tax-scofflaws?

If they're paid well enough

RDKirk · Jan 10, 2023

spiritfilledjm said:
If they're paid well enough

The government doesn't pay enough for government employees to shoot people just for the money.

Hans Blaster · Jan 10, 2023

Aryeh Jay said:
I had no idea that so many billionaires lived in the trailer parks of west Michigan.

There the ones that get the "reactionary, anti-modern social populism". (Plus west Michigan has been run over for decades by the DeVos/VanArundel/Amway Dutch reformed machine.)

Aryeh Jay · Jan 10, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
There the ones that get the "reactionary, anti-modern social populism". (Plus west Michigan has been run over for decades by the DeVos/VanArundel/Amway Dutch reformed machine.)

As they say, "If you're not Dutch, you're not much"

rambot · Jan 10, 2023

My understanding has always been that rich folk get their cases all tied up in courts and stuff and the IRS can't spend as much money going after them. I'm wondering if more agents increases that?

rambot · Jan 10, 2023

sandman said:
I think we can be sure that whatever reason they gave (wealthy tax cheats) that is not the true reason...What it is exactly.... I am not sure ....but I believe there is a more sinister motive behind this. It just doesn't make sense 87k new agents and almost 3/4 of a million in (already purchased) ammo ...what the heck ??..............Are they going to shoot people to recover taxes...? ....it makes no sense.

Up in Canada, I've heard of the stories of IRS agents going to people's home and getting threatenned at gun point.

sandman · Jan 10, 2023

rambot said:
Up in Canada, I've heard of the stories of IRS agents going to people's home and getting threatenned at gun point.

Interesting…. When dealing with people… guns are a show of force for intimidating, injury, or death.

Several years ago I had a couple friends (one has since passed) both of these guys rode with the Hells Angels (biker group) They were part of 12 or so from the Angels who were recruited by the IRS to perform collections for a fee or a percentage. And from what they told me it wasn’t just from the Angels…. other biker groups were involved.
As D _ _ _ explained, it wasn’t because we were the salt of the earth that the IRS used us. It was all about being intimidating through nefarious actions. After a few people were shot… this procedure was exposed they supposedly shut it down. I should add that both of my friend did become the salt of the earth and were dynamic believers…” D” is still teaching fellowships today.

Biden administration issues first veto threat to House legislation

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