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There is no good, justifiable or innocent lie!

Leonardo von Dolinger

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There is no good, justifiable or innocent lie! Ha-Satan is the father of all lie (John 8:44), regardless its size to our eyes!

• “Lying lips are hateful to Jehovah, but those who deal truly are His delight.” (Pro 12:22)

When we speak in sin, the first thing that we think is on heinous crime. Nevertheless, did you peruse the Holy Scripture in order to see how the lie is seen before the Creator?

1 – He belittle and abhor the liar and promised to destroy them:

• "You shall destroy those who speak lies; Jehovah will despise the bloody and deceitful man.” (Psa_5:6);
• "These six Jehovah hates; yea, seven are hateful to his soul: a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,” (Pro_6:16-17);

2 – The liar are the tail of the Red Dragon:

• " The elder and honorable, he is the head; and the prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail.” (Isa_9:15);
• “And another sign was seen in the heavens. And behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads! And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them onto the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman being about to bear, so that when she bears he might devour her child. ” (Rev 12:3,4)

3 – The liar won’t enter into the Kingdom of Heaven:

• "But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Rev_21:8);
• " But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes a lie.” (Rev_22:15).

And the worst is that most of the people delight in such lies:

• "And will you profane Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to kill the souls that should not die; and to save alive the souls that should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies.” (Eze 13:19);
• “The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so, and what will you do at the end of it?” (Jer 5:31);
• “For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but they will heap up teachers to themselves according to their own lusts, tickling the ear. And they will turn away their ears from the truth and will be turned to myths.” (2Tim 4:3,4)

The lie can look sweet, but only will make many people go astray and cheat on themselves:

• " Because with lies you have saddened the heart of the righteous, whom I have not made sad; and have made the hands of the wicked strong, so that he should not turn from his wicked way, by promising him life;” (Eze_13:22);

So, have a fine day abiding by the commandment given by Paul:

• “Therefore I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is going to judge the living and the dead according to His appearance and His kingdom, preach the Word, be instant in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine.” (2Tim 4:1,2).
 

Soyeong

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There is no good, justifiable or innocent lie! Ha-Satan is the father of all lie (John 8:44), regardless its size to our eyes!

• “Lying lips are hateful to Jehovah, but those who deal truly are His delight.” (Pro 12:22)

When we speak in sin, the first thing that we think is on heinous crime. Nevertheless, did you peruse the Holy Scripture in order to see how the lie is seen before the Creator?

1 – He belittle and abhor the liar and promised to destroy them:

• "You shall destroy those who speak lies; Jehovah will despise the bloody and deceitful man.” (Psa_5:6);
• "These six Jehovah hates; yea, seven are hateful to his soul: a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,” (Pro_6:16-17);

2 – The liar are the tail of the Red Dragon:

• " The elder and honorable, he is the head; and the prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail.” (Isa_9:15);
• “And another sign was seen in the heavens. And behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads! And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them onto the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman being about to bear, so that when she bears he might devour her child. ” (Rev 12:3,4)

3 – The liar won’t enter into the Kingdom of Heaven:

• "But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Rev_21:8);
• " But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes a lie.” (Rev_22:15).

And the worst is that most of the people delight in such lies:

• "And will you profane Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to kill the souls that should not die; and to save alive the souls that should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies.” (Eze 13:19);
• “The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so, and what will you do at the end of it?” (Jer 5:31);
• “For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but they will heap up teachers to themselves according to their own lusts, tickling the ear. And they will turn away their ears from the truth and will be turned to myths.” (2Tim 4:3,4)

The lie can look sweet, but only will make many people go astray and cheat on themselves:

• " Because with lies you have saddened the heart of the righteous, whom I have not made sad; and have made the hands of the wicked strong, so that he should not turn from his wicked way, by promising him life;” (Eze_13:22);

So, have a fine day abiding by the commandment given by Paul:

• “Therefore I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is going to judge the living and the dead according to His appearance and His kingdom, preach the Word, be instant in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine.” (2Tim 4:1,2).
So if someone is in a situation where they need to choose between telling a lie or loving their neighbor, then which is the greater command?
 
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Neostarwcc

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So if someone is in a situation where they need to choose between telling a lie or loving their neighbor, then which is the greater command?

Often you can love your neighbor without telling a lie. Can you give an example of a lie being necessary in order to love your neighbor?
 
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Soyeong

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Often you can love your neighbor without telling a lie. Can you give an example of a lie being necessary in order to love your neighbor?
Take the scenario where someone is hiding Jews, a Nazi comes to their door asking if they are hiding Jews, and they think that they think that the only alternative to telling the truth is to tell a lie, what should they do?

I agree that we can often love our neighbor without telling a lie, though there are some scenarios where some of God's laws appear conflict, when obeying one command means not obeying the other, such as when God commanded priests to rest on the Sabbath, but also commanded priests to do offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10). However, was not the case that the case that priests were forced to sin by transgressing one of the two commands no matter what they choose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed, which is why Jesus said that priests who did their duties on the Sabbat were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why he defended his disciples as being innocent (Matthew 12:5-7).
 
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Soyeong

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lying is never excusable.
So then you think that someone in that situation should choose disobey the command to love our neighbor rather than commit a lie, and that disobeying the command to love our neighbor is excusable? Which command do you think is greater: the command not to lie or the command to love our neighbor?
 
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pgp_protector

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So then you think that someone in that situation should choose disobey the command to love our neighbor rather than commit a lie, and that disobeying the command to love our neighbor is excusable? Which command do you think is greater: the command not to lie or the command to love our neighbor?
I'm not going to lie to someone to spare them anything,
I myself don't expect to be lied to and I treat others the same..
The LORD didn't go around telling people what they wanted to hear.
Nor did he "lie" to comfort them,
He told them the Truth.
 
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IceJad

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Really depends on what your understanding of lying is. A lot of time we become dogmatic and absolutist in certain verses in the Bible and forget the examples of moral lies. One such moral lie is in Exodus 1:15-21. The midwives outright lied to the Pharaoh about Hebrew women being superhuman giving birth without any midwife's assistance. While in reality they helped deliver the babies and spared the boys. And the Lord showed mercy to the midwives. In this case is the Lord Himself sinning by blessing the lying midwives?

15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shifra and Puah, 16 "When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live." 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. 18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, "Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?"

19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive."

20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.
 
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IceJad

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Take the scenario where someone is hiding Jews, a Nazi comes to their door asking if they are hiding Jews, and they think that they think that the only alternative to telling the truth is to tell a lie, what should they do?

I agree that we can often love our neighbor without telling a lie, though there are some scenarios where some of God's laws appear conflict, when obeying one command means not obeying the other, such as when God commanded priests to rest on the Sabbath, but also commanded priests to do offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10). However, was not the case that the case that priests were forced to sin by transgressing one of the two commands no matter what they choose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed, which is why Jesus said that priests who did their duties on the Sabbat were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why he defended his disciples as being innocent (Matthew 12:5-7).

They should lie (and historically many had done so) because the obvious will happen if they told the truth. The Lord looks at the heart and intent of a person. We are given the Holy Spirit to help us in our discernment. There are many teachings of the Lord that cannot be recorded in Scriptures like in John 21:25. So we must read the Bible, understand the core messages & teachings then let the Holy Spirit guide us on applying them in daily life.

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
 
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Soyeong

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I'm not going to lie to someone to spare them anything,
I myself don't expect to be lied to and I treat others the same..
The LORD didn't go around telling people what they wanted to hear.
Nor did he "lie" to comfort them,
He told them the Truth.
So you consider the command against lying to be greater than the greatest two commandments?
 
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So you consider the command against lying to be greater than the greatest two commandments?
Not sure where you get I said that?
I said, "I'm not going to lie to someone to spare them anything?"
Even if it's not something someone wants to hear,
Lying is a SIN and Only Leads to more Lying and MORE SIN.
It is never justifiable to LIE
Also the command against lying is covered by the second greatest commandment,
Which is "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself",
Again I Don't want to be Lied to,
I don't personally know anyone that enjoys being lied to regardless as to the circumstance.
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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Not sure where you get I said that?
I said, "I'm not going to lie to someone to spare them anything?"
Even if it's not something someone wants to hear,
Lying is a SIN and Only Leads to more Lying and MORE SIN.
It is never justifiable to LIE
Also the command against lying is covered by the second greatest commandment,
Which is "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself",
Again I Don't want to be Lied to,
I don't personally know anyone that enjoys being lied to regardless as to the circumstance.
So you would tell the Nazis where the Jews are hiding?
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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Since it's a hypothetical question and I'm not GOD,
LORD willing, I'd bite my tongue off.
For some people in the past this was a very real situation. Saying nothing is a "Yes" to the Nazi's question whether you are hiding a Jew. You either lie or they will turn your entire house upside down to find the Jews you are hiding. You can count yourself lucky that you are not in that situation, but treating this as a "hypothetical question" is incorrect.

So again, was it wrong for the people in Nazi-Germany to lie in order to save Jews?
 
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For some people in the past this was a very real situation. Saying nothing is a "Yes" to the Nazi's question whether you are hiding a Jew. You either lie or they will turn your entire house upside down to find the Jews you are hiding. You can count yourself lucky that you are not in that situation, but treating this as a "hypothetical question" is incorrect.

So again, was it wrong for the people in Nazi-Germany to lie in order to save Jews?
fact of the matter being i can't tell you what someone else should DO,
I can tell you that lying is a sin regardless as to the scenario.
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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fact of the matter being i can't tell you what someone else should DO,
I can tell you that lying is a sin regardless as to the scenario.
Interesting. The Bible says the opposite: Lying can be considered an act of righteousness under very specific circumstances.
You probably know the story of Rahab and how she hid the Israeli spies in Jericho. When the guards came to arrest the Israelites Rahab lied to them and said that they had gone another direction.
James then says this about Rahab:

"Was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?" (James 2:25).

Here Rahab is commended explicitely for lying and considered righteous for it.
 
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Interesting. The Bible says the opposite: Lying can be considered an act of righteousness under very specific circumstances.
You probably know the story of Rahab and how she hid the Israeli spies in Jericho. When the guards came to arrest the Israelites Rahab lied to them and said that they had gone another direction.
James then says this about Rahab:

"Was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?" (James 2:25).

Here Rahab is commended explicitely for lying and considered righteous for it.
She risked dying for Israel and it's LORD?
Which is counted for her because it's the greatest act of love,
and would be indeed an act of righteousness.
because she was willing to die for GOD
it was a Selfless act?
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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Looking at it, She risked dying for Israel and it's GOD,
Which is counted for her because it's the greatest act of love,
and would be indeed an act of righteousness.
because she was willing to die for GOD
it was a Selfless act.
It doesn't say any of that. James commends her because she "sent them off in a different direction". Different from what? Different from what she had told the guards. There is no other way to make sense of this "different" in James 2:25.

I understand the urge to believe that the commands are absolute, without any exceptions, and that there is only black and white. But that's not what the Bible wants us to do. Even Jesus makes this clear in Matthew 12:1-13. There are exceptions to every law. We can't make up exceptions as we please, but there are real exceptions directly in the Bible that show us what the laws and commandments are about: to show us God's heart and desires. When we understand the intentions behind God's laws with the help of the Holy Spirit we will also understand the rare exceptions.
 
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