There is no good, justifiable or innocent lie!

[cherishedteddies]

So if someone is in a situation where they need to choose between telling a lie or loving their neighbor, then which is the greater command?

A woman says, how do you like my new dress. I think " it's awful". I try to find something nice to say about it.

 

[Soyeong]

Not sure where you get I said that?
I said, "I'm not going to lie to someone to spare them anything?"
Even if it's not something someone wants to hear,
Lying is a SIN and Only Leads to more Lying and MORE SIN.
It is never justifiable to LIE
Also the command against lying is covered by the second greatest commandment,
Which is "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself",
Again I Don't want to be Lied to,
I don't personally know anyone that enjoys being lied to regardless as to the circumstance.

If someone is in a situation where they need to choose between telling a lie or loving their neighbor, and you reply that lying is never excusable, then that implies that you think that disobeying the command to love our neighbor is excusable and that the command against telling a lie is greater than the command to love our neighbor, which is what I was asking you to confirm in my reply to what you said. You replied that you are not going to tell a lie to spare them anything, so if you had the opportunity to obey the command to love your neighbor by sparing them, but you chose instead to instead obey the command against lying, then that again confirms that you consider the command against lying to be greater than the command to love our neighbor.

 

[Lost Witness]

If someone is in a situation where they need to choose between telling a lie or loving their neighbor, and you reply that lying is never excusable, then that implies that you think that disobeying the command to love our neighbor is excusable and that the command against telling a lie is greater than the command to love our neighbor, which is what I was asking you to confirm in my reply to what you said. You replied that you are not going to tell a lie to spare them anything, so if you had the opportunity to obey the command to love your neighbor by sparing them, but you chose instead to instead obey the command against lying, then that again confirms that you consider the command against lying to be greater than the command to love our neighbor.

@Soyeong Do you enjoy being lied to?
Would you prefer someone lie to you to save you hurt instead of being honest and save your soul?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

@Soyeong Do you enjoy being lied to?
Would you prefer someone lie to you to save you hurt than be honest and save your soul?

So you don't want to hurt the murderer's feelings by lying to him, but you don't mind that as a consequence an innocent person is killed. Why are the feelings of the murderer more important than the feelings of the murdered?

 

[Lost Witness]

It doesn't say any of that. James commends her because she "sent them off in a different direction". Different from what? Different from what she had told the guards. There is no other way to make sense of this "different" in James 2:25.

I understand the urge to believe that the commands are absolute, without any exceptions, and that there is only black and white. But that's not what the Bible wants us to do. Even Jesus makes this clear in Matthew 12:1-13. There are exceptions to every law. We can't make up exceptions as we please, but there are real exceptions directly in the Bible that show us what the laws and commandments are about: to show us God's heart and desires. When we understand the intentions behind God's laws with the help of the Holy Spirit we will also understand the rare exceptions.

It's a risk she took with Lying?
A gamble?

 

[Lost Witness]

she trusted in the LORD,
Put her Life on the LINE with Lying?
It doesn't make lying excusable

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

It's a risk she took with Lying?
A gamble?

You are still ignoring that James commends her specifically for sending them off in a different direction than what she had told the guards = the lie. Why does James commend her for lying if lying is always a sin?

 

[Lost Witness]

So you don't want to hurt the murderer's feelings by lying to him, but you don't mind that as a consequence an innocent person is killed. Why are the feelings of the murderer more important than the feelings of the murdered?

Since it's a hypothetical question and I'm not GOD,
LORD willing, I'd bite my tongue off.

Lying is a SIN,
No Point in trying to Justify it

 

[Lost Witness]

You are still ignoring that James commends her specifically for sending them off in a different direction than what she had told the guards = the lie. Why does James commend her for lying if lying is always a sin?

maybe you should meditate on what it means when you lie to someone

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

maybe you should meditate on what it means when you lie to someone

Will do In the meantime you can meditate on what it means to be complicit in murdering innocent people.

 

[Lost Witness]

Will do In the meantime you can meditate on what it means to be complicit in murdering innocent people.

Never said I'd murder innocent people?
I recall saying< "LORD willing, I'd bite my tongue off."

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Lying is a SIN,
No Point in trying to Justify it

Generally, yes. Just like working on Shabbat is a sin, generally. Are you the guy who watches someone getting buried alive in a landslide and not moving a finger because it's Shabbat? Or will you dig him out no matter what?

 

[Lost Witness]

Generally, yes. Just like working on Shabbat is a sin, generally. Are you the guy who watches someone getting buried alive in a landslide and not moving a finger because it's Shabbat? Or will you dig him out no matter what?

Clearly i'm the Guy that would rather LORD willing ,bite his tongue off than tell a lie intentionally or risk endangering other peoples lives?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Never said I'd murder innocent people?
I recall saying< "LORD willing, I'd bite my tongue off."

Please don't be naive. When a Nazi asks you "Are you hiding a Jew?" and you bite your tongue off they know immediately that you are hiding a Jew. Which means the Jew in your house just got murdered by the Nazis and you are complicit because your actions told the Nazis that there is a Jew.

 

[Lost Witness]

Please don't be naive. When a Nazi asks you "Are you hiding a Jew?" and you bite your tongue off they know immediately that you are hiding a Jew. Which means the Jew in your house just got murdered by the Nazis and you are complicit because your actions told the Nazis that there is a Jew.

that's a bit presumptuous thinking i have a Jew Hidden in my house?
knowing where they are isn't the same as having them hiding in your house?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

that's a bit presumptuous thinking i have a Jew Hidden in my house?
knowing where they are isn't the same as having them hiding in your house?

Let's not fight over semantics. We are talking about the situation that happened in real life for people during the Holocaust where they were hiding Jews in their house and the Nazis knocked on the door asking whether they are hiding Jews in their house. I'm sure you are not completely ignorant of history.
According to you, these people shouldn't have lied but rather shown by their actions (biting their tongue off) that they do in fact hide Jews in their house. Which makes them complicit in murder.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

What they did or didn't do isn't for me to Judge?

Then why do you judge them by saying that they sinned by lying?

 

[Lost Witness]

Then why do you judge them by saying that they sinned by lying?

where did I Judge them for lying?

 

[Lost Witness]

Then why do you judge them by saying that they sinned by lying?

What I originally said in response to the NAZI question is quoted below

fact of the matter being i can't tell you what someone else should DO,
I can tell you that lying is a sin regardless as to the scenario.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

where did I Judge them for lying?

I can tell you that lying is a sin regardless as to the scenario.

You said lying is a sin regardless of the scenario. We know for a fact that Christians during the Holocaust lied in order to save the lives of Jews. Therefore you are saying that these Christians were sinning. That is your judgement.