Very clear

rambot · Dec 7, 2022

Hammster said:
Your first question presupposed that it could be argued against by a verse. So that’s what I led with. So I’ll ask you this, based on the above. What’s the Hebrew word for fetus?

I didn't know it so I did a quick bit of research and this little ditty:

The Fetus in Jewish Law | My Jewish Learning

An unborn fetus in Jewish law is not considered a person (Heb. nefesh, lit. “soul”) until it has been born. The fetus is regarded as a part of the mother’s body and not a separate being until it begins to egress from the womb during parturition (childbirth). In fact, until forty days after conception, the fertilized egg is considered as “mere fluid.” These facts form the basis for the Jewish legal view on abortion. Biblical, talmudic, and rabbinic support for these statements will now be presented.

I won't bother quoting the whole page but that may be an interesting read.

I mean the word fetus isn't found in the Bible anywhere...mostly because the word "fetus" didn't exist until the 1300s. But modern? I think it's spelled "Umparh"? Not sure.

Hammster · Dec 7, 2022

rambot said:
I didn't know it so I did a quick bit of research and this little ditty:

The Fetus in Jewish Law | My Jewish Learning

I won't bother quoting the whole page but that may be an interesting read.

I mean the word fetus isn't found in the Bible anywhere...mostly because the word "fetus" didn't exist until the 1300s. But modern? I think it's spelled "Umparh"? Not sure.

Let’s see if this helps.

But the children struggled together within her; and she said, “If it is so, why then am I this way?” So she went to inquire of the Lord.
— Genesis 25:22

The word is ben and it’s the same word used for born and unborn children.

rambot · Dec 7, 2022

Hammster said:
Let’s see if this helps.

But the children struggled together within her; and she said, “If it is so, why then am I this way?” So she went to inquire of the Lord.
— Genesis 25:22

The word is ben and it’s the same word used for born and unborn children.

Sounds really imprecise..... Also means "son" or "boy". So not sure why you'd chose that word and not work closely around the Hebrew word Jewish people use.

Pommer · Dec 8, 2022

Hammster said:
Let’s see if this helps.

But the children struggled together within her; and she said, “If it is so, why then am I this way?” So she went to inquire of the Lord.
— Genesis 25:22

The word is ben and it’s the same word used for born and unborn children.

Our understanding of God’s will is contingent on the limitations of ancient Hebrew?
Wow

Hammster · Dec 8, 2022

rambot said:
Sounds really imprecise..... Also means "son" or "boy". So not sure why you'd chose that word and not work closely around the Hebrew word Jewish people use.

I don’t think the Holy Spirit is imprecise. I chose that word because it’s the word He used to describe two people in the womb. And yes, the fact that it also means son or boy is the point.

rambot · Dec 8, 2022

Hammster said:
I don’t think the Holy Spirit is imprecise. I chose that word because it’s the word He used to describe two people in the womb. And yes, the fact that it also means son or boy is the point.

The Holy Spirit is not.

The language is.
Why wouldn't you go alongside the hermeneutic understanding of the people who, you know, speak the language?

I

Hammster · Dec 8, 2022

rambot said:
The Holy Spirit is not.

The language is.
Why wouldn't you go alongside the hermeneutic understanding of the people who, you know, speak the language?

I

I do. The word for preborn and post born child is the same.

rambot · Dec 8, 2022

Hammster said:
I do. The word for preborn and post born child is the same.

How can it be a child if it's not yet considered a "person" in the womb according to the ancient texts?

Hammster · Dec 8, 2022

rambot said:
How can it be a child if it's not yet considered a "person" in the womb according to the ancient texts?

The ancient text, which I provided, shows that the two in the womb were considered persons.

rambot · Dec 8, 2022

Hammster said:
The ancient text, which I provided, shows that the two in the womb were considered persons.

You didn't provide an "ancient text". You provided a translation. If you don't know the difference.....that may be part of hte problem.

Hammster · Dec 9, 2022

rambot said:
You didn't provide an "ancient text". You provided a translation. If you don't know the difference.....that may be part of hte problem.

What would you accept as evidence?

Pommer · Dec 9, 2022

Hammster said:
What would you accept as evidence?

How’s about going with what Jews of today say about the topic?

Hammster · Dec 10, 2022

Pommer said:
How’s about going with what Jews of today say about the topic?

Why would I trust someone who denies the Messiah?

Pommer · Dec 10, 2022

Hammster said:
Why would I trust someone who denies the Messiah?

The Person who said exactly nothing about the subject?

rambot · Dec 10, 2022

Hammster said:
Why would I trust someone who denies the Messiah?

Because it's their language feom their religious text too?

Why would you not?

Hammster · Dec 10, 2022

rambot said:
Because it's their language feom their religious text too?

Why would you not?

It’s not their text. It is our text. They deny the Messiah.

Hans Blaster · Dec 10, 2022

Hammster said:
It’s not their text. It is our text. They deny the Messiah.

Wow. Just, wow.

Very clear

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