History of the Widespread Belief in Mary's Perpetual Virginity

catie-on-the-way said:

A friend gave me access to a massive trove of articles on the Ever-Virginity of Mary, so I'm also digging through that for more typology.

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good, because there’s a lot (Joseph’s Virgin’s womb, Joseph’s of Arimathea’s Virgin Tomb, etc).

Platina said:

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this also might just be me, but the Ark was fashioned by Aaron (from whom come the priests), Mary was also “fashioned” by Aaron (from his line through Anna, reared in the Temple, etc).

ArmyMatt said:

this also might just be me, but the Ark was fashioned by Aaron (from whom come the priests), Mary was also “fashioned” by Aaron (from his line through Anna, reared in the Temple, etc).

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nice!

Platina said:

nice!

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thanks, if my pea brain could think of that, I am sure someone else did.

catie-on-the-way said:

Delving more into the Marian typologies in the OT right now. This is going to end up being a fairly lengthy writeup.

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as it should be

remember as well, that since the earliest Christians didn’t have a NT, typology was the way they would exegete the OT.

ArmyMatt said:

this also might just be me, but the Ark was fashioned by Aaron (from whom come the priests), Mary was also “fashioned” by Aaron (from his line through Anna, reared in the Temple, etc).

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No, Father, it's not just you. This is one of the most common typologies found across the Coptic hymns, found in, e.g., the communion hymn for the paramone of the Nativity, the seventh and tenth parts of the Midnight Praises for Sunday, the vespers praises for the month of Kiahk ("St. Mary's month"), etc. While it's not nearly as common as the vocative address "O Theotokos" (understandably), it is also not uncommon to have "O rod of Aaron" as a form of address for the Theotokos as well, and that includes hymns as preserved in Greek, Coptic, and Arabic (as well as those that mix all three).

dzheremi said:

No, Father, it's not just you. This is one of the most common typologies found across the Coptic hymns, found in, e.g., the communion hymn for the paramone of the Nativity, the seventh and tenth parts of the Midnight Praises for Sunday, the vespers praises for the month of Kiahk ("St. Mary's month"), etc. While it's not nearly as common as the vocative address "O Theotokos" (understandably), it is also not uncommon to have "O rod of Aaron" as a form of address for the Theotokos as well, and that includes hymns as preserved in Greek, Coptic, and Arabic (as well as those that mix all three).

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thanks, I had a feeling.

catie-on-the-way said:

The main typologies I'm discussing in this outline/paper so far are the Temple, the Ark, Eve, and the burning bush (last in particular to emphasize the second condition of the perpetual virginity.) Any others you could think to include (based on Coptic tradition)?

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Yes, though this really isn't the board for it. I only post that sort of thing here when I can add agreement to something an EO person has already said, since I'm not EO myself.

you could PM each other. although, personally I would be curious of Coptic typology myself

catie-on-the-way said:

Would it be alright if I PM'd you?

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and add me to the PM, if you please

dzheremi said:

Yes, though this really isn't the board for it. I only post that sort of thing here when I can add agreement to something an EO person has already said, since I'm not EO myself.

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technically, you can only not post stuff that is against EO theology. agreeing with us on her ever-virginity but quoting someone like Severus of Antioch wouldn’t violate the rules.

at least that’s how I read it.

catie-on-the-way said:

Would it be alright if I PM'd you?

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Yes, that would be fine. Please be patient with my communication speed, though. I've been in the hospital recently, and I start my onboarding period for a new job on the 6th, so I have a lot on my plate right now. I love talking about this stuff, though, so please don't be shy.

dzheremi said:

I've been in the hospital recently, and I start my onboarding period for a new job on the 6th, so I have a lot on my plate right now.

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prayers!

not sure if anyone added this, but there is also the mountain in Daniel and the three Holy Youths in the Furnace.

I believe the holy woman of Revelation 12:1-17 is the Theotokos and probably also the Church. I also believe there is a relationship between this and expression found in the ancient Odes of Solomon in odes 19 ( the incarnation) and 33 ( a Virgin who proclaims the salvation of the Lord). Some scholars have said that the Odes of Solomon arise from the Christian communities of the Apostle John and I believe it. If the Theotokos was just another ordinary person, then it seems likely she would not have been remembered as ever Virgin ( although still honored in some way).








I would also like to add that I believe there is a relationship between the mother martyr in 2 Maccabees ( along with her 7 sons and Eleazar the priest). The great exhortation of this torturous, drama account in 4th Maccabees is unbelievable.