- Aug 6, 2022
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Hey guys!
Preface, yes, I believe in the perpetual virginity, but tired from discussions with a protestant who's rewriting some of Christian history just to be anti-Catholic. I want to prevent him from misunderstanding history and being ridiculed.
So, I've been speaking to a protestant who contends that several "faulty" Roman doctrines, including the perpetual virginity of Mary, are the fault of St. Augustine. I told him that while two of the problems he listed were legitimate concerns about Augustinian theology and subsequent Catholic theology, that the perpetual virginity of Mary significantly predates Augustine, who was also not influential in the East. He countered with it being a faulty belief in both East and West because of St. Jerome. Now, given given the history of St. Jerome and his views on the holy family and the "brothers of Christ", this is again faulty.
So, I told him I needed time to write up an explanation of the history until its dogmatization at the 5th Ecumenical Council.
He responded with nothing could change his mind on the doctrine other than Scripture but that he was interested in the history. I responded that that wasn't interested in changing his mind on the dogma, but I wanted to help him create a position that was historically accurate and wouldn't leave him open to ridicule. And, that's all there is in it for me. It's just that while there are honest concerns with Roman Catholic theology as stems from St. Augustine, the dogma of the perpetual virginity isn't one of them and will leave him open to not being taken particularly seriously. He has a genuine interested in having his history corrected.
I've started by outlining the three parts of perpetual virginity (at Christ's conception, at His birth, for the rest of Mary's life). After that, I plan on explaining the Protoevangelium of James and its reception in East and West. Am going to add quotes from Clement of Alexandria (support of protoevangelium and perpetual virginity), Origen (support of perpetual virginity but disagreement with protoevangelium), and Tertullian (his disregard for both the perpetual virginity and the protoevangelium) to show how widespread this belief may have been. Also going to outline how while St. Jerome agreed with the perpetual virginity, he disagreed with the protoevangelium because it disagreed with his views on the holy family and the "brothers of Christ". Also plan on pointing out that Pope Innocent I condemned the protoevangelium because it contradicted St. Jerome's readings, but that it continued to be widely read and influential in eastern Patriarchates.
Plan on quoting Hilary of Poitiers on his reading of Jesus giving Mary to John at the foot of the cross in the Gospel of John. Plan on quoting Ezekial 44:2, and I know there's Patristic commentary on that reading, but can't recall from whom; have it somewhere. Honestly very tired tonight while typing this up, and in essence, I'm asking for help doing my homework.
Who else should I quote or what else should I reference to point out that it was a widespread early belief that had little to do with either St. Jerome or St. Augustine.
Thanks in advance,
Catie
Preface, yes, I believe in the perpetual virginity, but tired from discussions with a protestant who's rewriting some of Christian history just to be anti-Catholic. I want to prevent him from misunderstanding history and being ridiculed.
So, I've been speaking to a protestant who contends that several "faulty" Roman doctrines, including the perpetual virginity of Mary, are the fault of St. Augustine. I told him that while two of the problems he listed were legitimate concerns about Augustinian theology and subsequent Catholic theology, that the perpetual virginity of Mary significantly predates Augustine, who was also not influential in the East. He countered with it being a faulty belief in both East and West because of St. Jerome. Now, given given the history of St. Jerome and his views on the holy family and the "brothers of Christ", this is again faulty.
So, I told him I needed time to write up an explanation of the history until its dogmatization at the 5th Ecumenical Council.
He responded with nothing could change his mind on the doctrine other than Scripture but that he was interested in the history. I responded that that wasn't interested in changing his mind on the dogma, but I wanted to help him create a position that was historically accurate and wouldn't leave him open to ridicule. And, that's all there is in it for me. It's just that while there are honest concerns with Roman Catholic theology as stems from St. Augustine, the dogma of the perpetual virginity isn't one of them and will leave him open to not being taken particularly seriously. He has a genuine interested in having his history corrected.
I've started by outlining the three parts of perpetual virginity (at Christ's conception, at His birth, for the rest of Mary's life). After that, I plan on explaining the Protoevangelium of James and its reception in East and West. Am going to add quotes from Clement of Alexandria (support of protoevangelium and perpetual virginity), Origen (support of perpetual virginity but disagreement with protoevangelium), and Tertullian (his disregard for both the perpetual virginity and the protoevangelium) to show how widespread this belief may have been. Also going to outline how while St. Jerome agreed with the perpetual virginity, he disagreed with the protoevangelium because it disagreed with his views on the holy family and the "brothers of Christ". Also plan on pointing out that Pope Innocent I condemned the protoevangelium because it contradicted St. Jerome's readings, but that it continued to be widely read and influential in eastern Patriarchates.
Plan on quoting Hilary of Poitiers on his reading of Jesus giving Mary to John at the foot of the cross in the Gospel of John. Plan on quoting Ezekial 44:2, and I know there's Patristic commentary on that reading, but can't recall from whom; have it somewhere. Honestly very tired tonight while typing this up, and in essence, I'm asking for help doing my homework.
Who else should I quote or what else should I reference to point out that it was a widespread early belief that had little to do with either St. Jerome or St. Augustine.
Thanks in advance,
Catie