Assisted Suicide ~ Should be OUTLAWED

The Narrow Way · Feb 12, 2022

Now I better understand what is BEHIND it...wouldn't you know it! $$$$$!! Isn't that what is behind EVERYTHING EVIL????

The insurance companies want Assisted Suicide to be legal so sick people will kill themselves so they don't have to keep paying their medical bills....

SkyWriting · Feb 12, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
Now I better understand what is BEHIND it...wouldn't you know it! $$$$$!! Isn't that what is behind EVERYTHING EVIL?

Go figure$:

Adultery—Matthew 5:27-28, 32; 19:9, 18; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; Hebrews 13:4; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Mark 7:21; John 8:1-11

Anger—Galatians 5:20; Ephesians 4:26, 31; 6:4; Colossians 3:8; James 1:19-20

Anger with one’s brother—Matthew 5:22

Arrogance—2 Timothy 3:2; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Corinthians 5:2; 8:1; 13:4

Bitterness—Ephesians 4:31; Hebrews 12:15; Romans 2:24; 3:14; Acts 8:23; James 2:7

Blasphemy—Mark 8:38; Acts 18:6

Boasting—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Galatians 5:26

Brutality—2 Timothy 3:3

Brother going to Law against brother—1 Corinthians 6:1-7

Carousing—Romans 13:13; Galatians 5:21; 1 Peter 4:3

Clamor—Ephesians 4:31

Complaining—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9

Conceit—2 Timothy 3:4

Coveting—Mark 7:22; Ephesians 5:5; Acts 20:33; Romans 13:9

Cowardice—Revelation 21:8

Deceit—Mark 7:22; Acts 13:10; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:10

Defrauding—1 Corinthians 6:7

Denying Christ—Matthew 10:33; Luke 12:9; 1 John 2:22-23

Desiring praise of men—John 12:43

Disobedience to parents—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Titus 3:3

Divisions—1 Corinthians 1:10

Divorce—Matthew 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18

Drinking parties—1 Peter 4:3

Drunkenness—Romans 13:13; 15: 13; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:10; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:3

Eating the Bread or drinking the Cup unworthily—1 Corinthians 11:27

Effeminacy—1 Corinthians 6:9

Enmities—Galatians 5:20

Envy—Mark 7:22; Galatians 5:26; Titus 3:3

Evil thoughts—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19

False witnessing—Matthew 15:19

Fathers, provoking children to wrath—Colossians 3:21

Fearfulness—Matthew 10:26, 28

Filthiness—Ephesians 4:3

Foolishness—Mark 7:22; Titus 3:3

Foolish talking—Ephesians 5:4

Fornication (or sexual immorality)—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 5:19

Greed—Ephesians 4:19; 5:3; 2 Peter 2:14

Lust, lusting—1 Peter 4:3; Titus 3:3

Haters of God—Romans 1:30

Hatred—2 Timothy 3:3; Titus 3:3

Homosexuality—1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10; Romans 1:26-27

Hypocrisy—Matthew 23:13,23, 25; 23, 27,28, 29; Mark 12:15; Luke 12:1; Romans 12:9

Idolatry—1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 5:20; Revelations 21:8; Ephesians 5:5

Immorality (see also Fornication)—Galatians 5:19; Revelation 21:8; Ephesians 5:3

Impurity—Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5: 3, 5

Jealousy—Galatians 5:20; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; James 3:16

Jesting—Ephesians 5:4

Judging—Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 2:1; 14:13; Luke 6:37 James 4:11

Knowing to do good but not doing it—James 4:17

Laying up treasures on earth—Matthew 6:19-21; 19:21; 1 Timothy 6:9-10; Luke 12:21, 33; 18:22

Living for pleasure—2 Timothy 3:4

Lovers of self—2 Timothy 3:2

Loving another person more than Jesus—Matthew 10:37; Luke 14:26

Lusting after a woman—Matthew 5:27-28; 1 Peter 4:3; Matthew 18:9

Lying—Revelation 21:8, 27; 22:15; Ephesians 4:25; Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:20; 2 Timothy 2:7

Malice—Romans 1:29; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; Titus 3:3; 2 Peter 2:1

Man praying or prophesying with head covered—1 Corinthians 11:4-16

Murder—Revelation 21:8; Mark 7:21; 5:21; 10: 19; 19:18; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:15; Matthew 15:19

Murmuring, complaining—Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9

Pride—Mark 7:22; 1 Peter 5:5, 6; James 4:6; Matthew 23:12; Luke 14:11; 18;14

Quarrels—James 4:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:11; 2 Timothy 2:23

Reviling—1 Corinthians 6:10; 5:11; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Peter 2:23; 1 Corinthians 4:17

Sensuality—Galatians 5:19; Mark 7:22; Romans 13:13; 2 Corinthians 12:21; 1 Peter 4:3; Ephesians 4:19; 2 Peter 2:2

Slander—Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:22; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 Corinthians 4:13; Romans 1:30

Sorcery—Galatians 5:20; Revelation 21:8, 15; 9:21; 18:23

Speaking against the Holy Spirit—Matthew 12:32; Luke 12:10

Stealing—Ephesians 4:28; 13:9; Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 2:21; 13:9

Strife, quarreling—Galatians 5:20; Romans 1:29; 13:13; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 1 Timothy 6:4

Swearing an oath—Matthew 6:34-37; James 5:12

Swindling—1 Corinthians 5:10; 6:10

Thievery, theft—1 Corinthians 6:10; Mark 7:21; John 10:1, 8; 1 Peter 4:15; Matthew 15:19

Treachery—2 Timothy 3:4

Unbelief, lack of faith—James 1:6; Mark 9:24; Hebrews 3:12, 19; 1 Timothy 5:8; 2 Corinthians 6:14-15; 7:13; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Titus 1:15; Revelation 21:8

Unforgiveness—Matthew 6:14-15; Mark 11:25-26

Ungodliness—Romans 1:18; 4:5; 5:6; 1 Timothy 1:9; 2 Timothy 2:16; Titus 2:12; 2 Peter 2:5, 6, 7

Ungratefulness—2 Tmothy 3:2; Romans 1:21; Luke 6:35; 2 Timothy 3:2

Unholiness—2 Timothy 3:2; Hebrews 12:14

Unrighteousness—Romans 1:18, 29; 2:8; 6:13; 1 John 1:9; 5:17

Wickedness—Mark 7:22; Luke 11:39; Acts 8:22; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:8; Ephesians 6:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 12; 2 Timothy 2:19

Woman cutting her hair short—1 Corinthians 1:14-15

Woman with her Head uncovered—1 Corinthians 11:5-16

Woman speaking or teaching in public—1 Timothy 2:11-15; 1 Corinthians 11:33-37

Wrath—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 1 Timothy 2:8

Sketcher · Feb 12, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
Now I better understand what is BEHIND it...wouldn't you know it! $$$$$!! Isn't that what is behind EVERYTHING EVIL????

The insurance companies want Assisted Suicide to be legal so sick people will kill themselves so they don't have to keep paying their medical bills....

It's illegal in my state, and in yours.
Assisted suicide in the United States - Wikipedia

The Narrow Way · Feb 12, 2022

Sketcher said:
It's illegal in my state, and in yours.
Assisted suicide in the United States - Wikipedia

Yes, I think it's legal in 10 States and DC

disciple Clint · Feb 13, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
Now I better understand what is BEHIND it...wouldn't you know it! $$$$$!! Isn't that what is behind EVERYTHING EVIL????

The insurance companies want Assisted Suicide to be legal so sick people will kill themselves so they don't have to keep paying their medical bills....

It appears that there have been abuses in other nations to the extent that people who do not desire to die are killed.

Sophrosyne · Feb 13, 2022

I'm sort of on the fence when it comes to this as a lot of us put animals to sleep if they are suffering and we cannot help them otherwise without ruining our lives by shelling out unaffordable amounts to pay for expensive medical procedures or drugs to prolong their suffering and/or marginally increase their life. I think the main issue is if you are "assisting" a suicide are you actually participating in murder even though it is a "self murder". I recall Dr Kavorkian and all his "assistance" in suicides and his prosecution etc.... very controversial indeed.

While I'm not a fan of suicide and don't blindly agree that it is unforgiveable and sends anyone to hell because of that decision and success, I do agree that it is a sin but as all sins are forgiven through faith in Jesus this one is, to me less agregious than murdering someone else as suicide terminates one decisions regarding life and if one is not saved then one does fall under the idea of hell while murder that isn't of oneself essentially cancels the ability of a person to choose Jesus if they haven't already.

I cannot read God's mind when it comes to assisting suicide at what level are we responsible (if any) of someone's death that doesn't hold us against them being dead? Is a sin of omission, that is being able to prevent someone from killing themself a sin? Is it as great a sin as helping them? Is one sin forgiveable and others forgiveable?

These are questions I think that only God knows. In many war movies people are assisted in suicide and for good reasons as they are severely wounded and unable to escape an enemy that will torture them to reveal information that would assist in many people being killed. There are also situations where people are guaranteed to die in a short time period that are under incredible pain and there are many who do things to kill enemies that are almost guaranteed to kill them like slamming a plane into the enemy to save their friends from death.

In other words it isn't a cut and dried thing as it is hard to discern how much others are suffering as some tolerate things better than others do and mental vs physical suffering also greatly differs per the individual.

disciple Clint · Feb 13, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
Now I better understand what is BEHIND it...wouldn't you know it! $$$$$!! Isn't that what is behind EVERYTHING EVIL????

The insurance companies want Assisted Suicide to be legal so sick people will kill themselves so they don't have to keep paying their medical bills....

"a study conducted in Flanders in 1996 found that 3.3% of cases of euthanasia had occurred without the prior request of the patient. In other words, they were involuntary euthanasias. Another study (also in Flanders) found that there had been 1796 cases of involuntary euthanasias (3.2%). A more recent study from 2007 found that the percentage of involuntary euthanasia was 1.8%, while another in 2013 found 1.7%.However — and we believe this is important — the percentage of involuntary euthanasia in patients who were 80-years-old or over rose to 52.7%, while in those with diseases other than cancer, this figure reached 67.5%. The decision was not discussed with the patient in 77.9% of cases"
Involuntary Euthanasia, without consent by patients | Bioethics Research Library

The Narrow Way · Feb 13, 2022

disciple Clint said:
It appears that there have been abuses in other nations to the extent that people who do not desire to die are killed.

So terrible! I cannot imagine!

The Narrow Way · Feb 13, 2022

Sophrosyne said:
I'm sort of on the fence when it comes to this as a lot of us put animals to sleep if they are suffering and we cannot help them otherwise without ruining our lives by shelling out unaffordable amounts to pay for expensive medical procedures or drugs to prolong their suffering and/or marginally increase their life. I think the main issue is if you are "assisting" a suicide are you actually participating in murder even though it is a "self murder". I recall Dr Kavorkian and all his "assistance" in suicides and his prosecution etc.... very controversial indeed.

While I'm not a fan of suicide and don't blindly agree that it is unforgiveable and sends anyone to hell because of that decision and success, I do agree that it is a sin but as all sins are forgiven through faith in Jesus this one is, to me less agregious than murdering someone else as suicide terminates one decisions regarding life and if one is not saved then one does fall under the idea of hell while murder that isn't of oneself essentially cancels the ability of a person to choose Jesus if they haven't already.

I cannot read God's mind when it comes to assisting suicide at what level are we responsible (if any) of someone's death that doesn't hold us against them being dead? Is a sin of omission, that is being able to prevent someone from killing themself a sin? Is it as great a sin as helping them? Is one sin forgiveable and others forgiveable?

These are questions I think that only God knows. In many war movies people are assisted in suicide and for good reasons as they are severely wounded and unable to escape an enemy that will torture them to reveal information that would assist in many people being killed. There are also situations where people are guaranteed to die in a short time period that are under incredible pain and there are many who do things to kill enemies that are almost guaranteed to kill them like slamming a plane into the enemy to save their friends from death.

In other words it isn't a cut and dried thing as it is hard to discern how much others are suffering as some tolerate things better than others do and mental vs physical suffering also greatly differs per the individual.

In my mind, it is cut and dried, at least for Christians. I believe suicide is MURDER....and once you are dead, you cannot be forgiven of committing it....and I don't believe that it's Biblical to ask forgiveness of sin BEFORE you commit it.

disciple Clint · Feb 13, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
So terrible! I cannot imagine!

some additional evidence:
"In 30 years, the Netherlands has moved from euthanasia of people who are terminally ill, to euthanasia of those who are chronically ill; from euthanasia for physical illness, to euthanasia for mental illness; from euthanasia for mental illness, to euthanasia for psychological distress or mental suffering—and now to euthanasia simply if a person is over the age of 70 and “tired of living.” Dutch euthanasia protocols have also moved from conscious patients providing explicit consent, to unconscious patients unable to provide consent. Denying euthanasia or pas in the Netherlands is now considered a form of discrimination against people with chronic illness, whether the illness be physical or psychological, because those people will be forced to “suffer” longer than those who are terminally ill. Non-voluntary euthanasia is now being justified by appealing to the social duty of citizens and the ethical pillar of beneficence. In the Netherlands, euthanasia has moved from being a measure of last resort to being one of early intervention. Belgium has followed suit 37, and troubling evidence is emerging from Oregon specifically with respect to the protection of people with depression and the objectivity of the process.

The United Nations has found that the euthanasia law in the Netherlands is in violation of its Universal Declaration of Human Rights because of the risk it poses to the rights of safety and integrity for every person’s life. The UN has also expressed concern that the system may fail to detect and to prevent situations in which people could be subjected to undue pressure to access or to provide euthanasia and could circumvent the safeguards that are in place.

Autonomy and choice are important values in any society, but they are not without limits. Our democratic societies have many laws that limit individual autonomy and choice so as to protect the larger community. These include, among many others, limits on excessive driving speeds and the obligation to contribute by way of personal and corporate income taxes. Why then should different standards on autonomy and choice apply in the case of euthanasia and pas?

Legislators in several countries and jurisdictions have, in just the last year, voted against legalizing euthanasia and pas in part because of the concerns and evidence described in this paper. Those jurisdictions include France, Scotland, England, South Australia, and New Hampshire. They have opted to improve palliative care services and to educate health professionals and the public."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/

disciple Clint · Feb 13, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
In my mind, it is cut and dried, at least for Christians. I believe suicide is MURDER....and once you are dead, you cannot be forgiven of committing it....and I don't believe that it's Biblical to ask forgiveness of sin BEFORE you commit it.

Which is not to say that suicide is an automatic ticket to hell. Only God decides who goes to hell and who is a victim of mental duress so severe that they do things that they would not otherwise do.

The Narrow Way · Feb 13, 2022

disciple Clint said:
Which is not to say that suicide is an automatic ticket to hell. Only God decides who goes to hell and who is a victim of mental duress so sever that they do things that they would not otherwise do.

Unfortunately, from the cases I've seen, people who end of committing suicide have strayed far from God a long time before they actually take their life (or they never knew God in the first place)...it's not something that good Christians wake up one day and decide to do. I don't believe there is any hope for someone who has committed suicide. That is why it's so important for us to reach people with HELP BEFORE they get that far.

Sophrosyne · Feb 13, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
In my mind, it is cut and dried, at least for Christians. I believe suicide is MURDER....and once you are dead, you cannot be forgiven of committing it....and I don't believe that it's Biblical to ask forgiveness of sin BEFORE you commit it.

Then most Christians cannot be forgiven because almost all of us do something sinful and either forget we did it or don't even realize we did it and those who sinned and then a stray bullet from a drive by shooting takes them out before they can "do the deed" of asking for forgiveness..... sorry bad luck.
Our forgiveness isn't based up our works of repentance but faith in the forgiver. God also is a just God and those who are not in the right state of mind are not held accountable (to him) for actions based upon the right state of mind but for what he considers as just. Let's say that you have a bad diet and get heart disease and die not knowing that your arteries are clogged... you essentially committed suicide because your actions lead to your death. There are infinite examples of people doing things that could lead to death short term and long term and deciding to do something with a risk of death is a form of suicide when it reaches a threshold that is undetermined. a soldier that throws himself on a hand grenade to save others is committing suicide, a police officer that takes a bullet by stepping in front of someone and dies and so on. By the act of willingly putting yourself at risk of death you are essentially doomed because you die and are unforgiven.... God isn't that petty IMO a person that lived their life in faith but at a point of weakness from a debilitating disease with a level of discomfort/pain that they can no longer bear commits suicide and a petty god would toss them in hell for that one act and let some person that accept Jesus on a hospital bed and repents of all sins 30 seconds for he dies that did every sin imaginable gets to go to heaven because..... suicide. ........ blah I say.

disciple Clint · Feb 13, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
Unfortunately, from the cases I've seen, people who end of committing suicide have strayed far from God a long time before they actually take their life (or they never knew God in the first place)...it's not something that good Christians wake up one day and decide to do. I don't believe there is any hope for someone who has committed suicide. That is why it's so important for us to reach people with HELP BEFORE they get that far.

You can believe that there is no hope for someone who has committed suicide, I will place my faith in God to understand and forgive those who are in so much pain and anguish that the only solution that their troubled minds can conceive is destruction. A sin has to be intentional, people who cannot think objectively have no concept of sin.

Sophrosyne · Feb 13, 2022

Nowhere in the Bible is Suicide mentioned as "unforgivable" we do have an unforgivable sin mentioned though.

The Narrow Way · Feb 13, 2022

Sophrosyne said:
Then most Christians cannot be forgiven because almost all of us do something sinful and either forget we did it or don't even realize we did it and those who sinned and then a stray bullet from a drive by shooting takes them out before they can "do the deed" of asking for forgiveness..... sorry bad luck.
Our forgiveness isn't based up our works of repentance but faith in the forgiver. God also is a just God and those who are not in the right state of mind are not held accountable (to him) for actions based upon the right state of mind but for what he considers as just. Let's say that you have a bad diet and get heart disease and die not knowing that your arteries are clogged... you essentially committed suicide because your actions lead to your death. There are infinite examples of people doing things that could lead to death short term and long term and deciding to do something with a risk of death is a form of suicide when it reaches a threshold that is undetermined. a soldier that throws himself on a hand grenade to save others is committing suicide, a police officer that takes a bullet by stepping in front of someone and dies and so on. By the act of willingly putting yourself at risk of death you are essentially doomed because you die and are unforgiven.... God isn't that petty IMO a person that lived their life in faith but at a point of weakness from a debilitating disease with a level of discomfort/pain that they can no longer bear commits suicide and a petty god would toss them in hell for that one act and let some person that accept Jesus on a hospital bed and repents of all sins 30 seconds for he dies that did every sin imaginable gets to go to heaven because..... suicide. ........ blah I say.

I do believe that if one chooses to eat an unhealthy diet and brings a heart attack or stroke on himself, that is a form of suicide...and he will be held accountable to whatever light he knew. I don't believe that is a works religion at all. The Bible tells us that God can help us overcome all things....so whatever the temptation, evil habit, etc...it's not stronger than God, and THROUGH HIS HELP, we can overcome.

...

The Narrow Way · Feb 13, 2022

Sophrosyne said:
Nowhere in the Bible is Suicide mentioned as "unforgivable" we do have an unforgivable sin mentioned though.

The reason it is "unforgivable" is because we must REPENT to have our sins washed away. A dead man cannot repent. It's too late.

Sophrosyne · Feb 13, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
The reason it is "unforgivable" is because we must REPENT to have our sins washed away. A dead man cannot repent. It's too late.

So in other words your salvation is taken away by sinning and you are again saved by repenting?

trophy33 · Feb 13, 2022

The Narrow Way said:
The reason it is "unforgivable" is because we must REPENT to have our sins washed away. A dead man cannot repent. It's too late.

This is a terrible misunderstanding of repentance.

Nobody of us can repent of all sins we have done. We do not remember them all or we do not even realize we sinned.

Repentance is a mindset. Therefore suicide is not unforgivable. It cannot take away you salvation any more than a heart attack while having an argument with your spouse.

Chrystal-J · Feb 16, 2022

If someone is bed ridden and needs help with suicide, that causes others to commit murder.

Assisted Suicide ~ Should be OUTLAWED

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