Can you tell me more about the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox denominations?

ArmyMatt said:

sorry, as a rule of thumb I don’t post outside of TAW

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Understood. Hope you're well, brother.

High Fidelity said:

Understood. Hope you're well, brother.

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you too!

Greetings, Vesper Jaye,

We don’t see Holy Orthodoxy as a denomination, but rather Christ’s Original and continual Church. I’ll echo Father Matt that I’d rather stay in TAW but I’d be happy to talk to you in a PM as well!! Glory to God for your post

Reader Joseph

Vesper_Jaye✝️ said:

I’m 16 and until now, I’ve been a baptist. But my church has some views that I’m not sure if I agree with. I was wondering if you could tell me more about Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox and similar denominations? Can you tell me what beliefs they specifically have that other denominations don’t, what church services would be like, and any other information that is important?

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gurneyhalleck1 said:

Greetings, Vesper Jaye,

We don’t see Holy Orthodoxy as a denomination, but rather Christ’s Original and continual Church.

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So we're leaving Vesper Jaye with two different denominations, both of which think they are not denominations but do think they are the particular and only organization that Christ had in mind when he founded his church.

I guess that that IS important information for her to know about the nature of both of the denominations she's considering as a possible new church home!

Did you miss out on 1054, Albion? It’s been this way for a while now, brother. I’m not going to debate it here though. I welcome the OP to TAW where she can start a thread or PM me or Father Matt. @ArmyMatt is definitely knowledgeable and a lot higher on the men in black chain of clergy than yours truly, but I’m happy to help or tell my story.

Albion said:

So we're leaving Vesper Jaye with two different denominations, both of which think they are not denominations but do think they are the particular and only organization that Christ had in mind when he founded his church.

I guess that that IS important information for her to know about the nature of both of the denominations she's considering as a possible new church home!

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Albion said:

So we're leaving Vesper Jaye with two different denominations, both of which think they are not denominations but do think they are the particular and only organization that Christ had in mind when he founded his church.

I guess that that IS important information for her to know about the nature of both of the denominations she's considering as a possible new church home!

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Which makes understanding the unified Church history along with the schism between Rome and the rest of Orthodoxy a worthy subject to explore.

Albion said:

So we're leaving Vesper Jaye with two different denominations, both of which think they are not denominations but do think they are the particular and only organization that Christ had in mind when he founded his church.

I guess that that IS important information for her to know about the nature of both of the denominations she's considering as a possible new church home!

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STM that all that human beings can do is, to set out the alternatives as accurately & impartially as possible, without favouring either. And they should point out the drawbacks with both. For instance, I think it would be very dishonest not to mention the predation scandals when discussing Catholicism; for they show what, in the right circumstances, Catholicism can produce. In certain circumstances, Catholicism can produce pogroms, centuries of anti-Judaism, the genocide against the Serbian Orthodox in WW2 Fascist Croatia, the massacres in Rwanda, the slaughter of Huguenots in France in 1572, the massacre of the Waldensians in Piedmont in 1655, and so on. If one believes that Divine Providence governs all eventualities, then it matters that Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, and other prominent Nazis were baptised Catholics - not Baptists, Lutherans, Mennonites, Calvinists or anything else.

Granted, the violence, cruelty, slaughter, tyranny, murder, torture, oppression, slavery, persecution, & other evils throughout the centuries are by no means the whole story of the CC. But they are certainly part of it, and it would be wrong to conceal them. If people are seriously considering being Catholic, they ought to be warned that there is a seamy side to it, of which many people are keenly aware, even if many Catholics are not. This is much better than being shown the more attractive side of Catholicism, becoming Catholic, and sometime afterwards being confronted later on with the really ugly stuff. If this difficulty cannot be avoided entirely, it should at least be lessened as far as possible. Maybe the Internet makes it easier for potential converts to know what they are getting into, than would have been the case in the past.

Vesper_Jaye✝️ said:

It would make sense that Catholicism and Orthodoxy would think this, since they are very old denominations. They are going to disagree with other denominations, as most denominations do. Catholics have taken that so far that they have persecuted other denominations, but that was a long time ago. I think most Catholics today would find that unacceptable. I’m trying to find articles that say good things about the denominations (which I have found plenty of) and articles that say bad things (I haven’t found a lot of those) so that I can see both sides.

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There's two sides to that story. You need to widen your reading on Church history.

Protestants also persecuted other denominations. The Pilgrim Fathers who first settled in the US were getting a hard time from the Anglicans, not Catholics who by then were persecuted in the UK.

But as you pointed out we're not living 450 years ago in the 17th century - we're in the 21st Century and a lot of water has passed under the bridge in that time.

Both Catholic and Orthodox can trace their lineage back to the original Christians, although they disagree on the role of the Papacy and some other aspects of faith. The Protestants didn't even start till Luther came along a full millennia and a half later.

You've asked a difficult question - there's a lot to learn about both denominations.

I've been Protestant (mainly Presbyterian) and I'm now Catholic. My wife is still Protestant (Baptist) as we were both Protestant when we married.

My experience of the Catholic and Protestant churches in a nutshell could be summed up as follows (I can't comment on the Orthodox church as I have no experience of it, other than attending a baptism in a Greek Orthodox Church - very strong liturgy, but all Greek to me I'm afraid) -

1. I think the Catholic Church is closest to the Truth.
2. Protestants tend to be a bit more enthusiastic about their faith, and more active in promoting it, but I don't think they're any more sincere (I'm talking about real Christians on both sides - not nominal adherents). They have a stronger emphasis on "missions" for example.
3. Catholics have a strong emphasis on social justice.
4 Catholicism is more liturgical than most Protestant churches, except perhaps for the Anglicans, and maybe Lutherans but I don't have much experience in that denomination.
5. Catholics place more emphasis on the Eucharist (Communion) since we believe the bread and wine becomes the body and blood of Christ in some real form (transubstantiation) whereas most Protestants take a symbolic view.
6. The centre of the Catholic mass is the Eucharist, whereas Protestant churches focus on the sermon. As a consequence Protestants generally have better sermons / homilies, but I think something is missing in their communion.
7. Protestants generally have a stronger music ministry, but there are some very good Catholic musicians and choirs.
8. Protestants generally know their Bible better, although there are 3 Bible readings and one responsive Psalm in almost every Catholic mass. Protestants tend to read and study the Bible - Catholics tend to hear most of the revelant bits over a 3 year period - years A,B &C (there wouldn't be much point in reading aloud the tribal roles and statistics in the book of Numbers for example - it would be impossible to make it sound interesting or relevant to a 21st century Catholic - or Protestant).
9. Catholic priests are usually celibate, ie. not married, with some exceptions, whereas the majority of Protestant pastors are married in my experience.
10. The Catholic Church places more weight on "tradition", which really means those teachings handed down and developed from the time of the Church fathers, and approved worthy of belief.
11. Catholics aren't hung up on whether something is "in the Bible" or not ie. Sola Scriptura. Purgatory is not in the Bible by name, but it's certainly implied. Neither is the Trinity so-named, but it's certainly implied. I believe Purgatory exists, and I think a lot of Protestants are going to get an unpleasant surprise when they find out that they may be forgiven on Christ's behalf, but they've still got some cleaning up to do before they're allowed into the absolute perfection of heaven, like the bloke who turned up at the wedding without being properly dressed, and was thrown out on his ear.

In short, if you went to the average Catholic mass, you'd wonder what all the fuss was about.

Vesper_Jaye✝️ said:

It would make sense that Catholicism and Orthodoxy would think this, since they are very old denominations. They are going to disagree with other denominations, as most denominations do.

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I’m trying to find articles that say good things about the denominations (which I have found plenty of) and articles that say bad things (I haven’t found a lot of those) so that I can see both sides.

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Good. As you can see, asking your question has been taken by loyalists of both the RC and the EO as an invitation to make a pitch for their respective denominations rather than just explaining the differences, etc.

But before the discussion disintegrates, and if you have other doctrinal issues or such on your mind, I hope you'll ask. And as it is with other seekers, it's often the less famous differences rather than the big doctrinal items that finally determine which church--or some other one altogether--they finally join.

Albion said:

Good. As you can see, asking your question has been taken by loyalists of both the RC and the EO as an invitation to make a pitch for their respective denominations rather than just explaining the differences, etc.

But before the discussion disintegrates, and if you have other doctrinal issues or such on your mind, I hope you'll ask. And as it is with other seekers, it's often the less famous differences rather than the big doctrinal items that finally determine which church--or some other one altogether--they finally join.

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Is that a problem, Albion?

Albion said:

Good. As you can see, asking your question has been taken by loyalists of both the RC and the EO as an invitation to make a pitch for their respective denominations rather than just explaining the differences, etc.

But before the discussion disintegrates, and if you have other doctrinal issues or such on your mind, I hope you'll ask. And as it is with other seekers, it's often the less famous differences rather than the big doctrinal items that finally determine which church--or some other one altogether--they finally join.

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I really don’t think the discussion will disintegrate. It’s been pretty respectful thus far. Which is very nice.

Michie said:

I really don’t think the discussion will disintegrate. It’s been pretty respectful thus far. Which is very nice.

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Indeed. I also mentioned the Oriental Orthodox and Assyrians; unfortunately we don’t have any Assyrian members but we do have some Oriental Orthodox like @dzheremi and @ArmenianJohn , and I also mentioned the liturgical Protestant tradition consisting of Anglicanism and especially High Church Anglicanism Anglo-Catholicism, and Lutheranism, particularly the Evangelical Catholic tradition in Lutheranism one sees epitomized historically in the Church of Sweden and in Saxony, and in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and the related Lutheran Church of Canada of which @MarkRohfrietsch is a member. There are also some liturgical Presbyterians, known as Scoto-Catholics, United Methodists, Nazarenes (who identify as Anglican Wesleyans), Reformed churches and Congregationalists, who I did not mention. I did mention Maronites and Chaldeans, but did not go into detail on Eastern Catholics as a whole, such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholics, whose Divine Liturgy is basically the same as the Ukrainian Orthodox, aside from prayers for the Pope in the Litany of Peace and commemoration of him in the Diptychs).

Lastly I have encouraged @Vesper_Jaye✝️ and would encourage Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox members who feel comfortable posting outside of their denominational forums and to take the discussion to Traditional Theology, which is an extremely friendly forum for members of traditional churches to discuss things like Patristics, Liturgics, mystical theology and so on without encountering criticism from people who don’t like our venerable churches or mistakenly think we are idolaters, etc. We have an inquirer there presently discerning between Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism and Roman Catholicism.

Vesper_Jaye✝️ said:

I’m 16 and until now, I’ve been a baptist. But my church has some views that I’m not sure if I agree with. I was wondering if you could tell me more about Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox and similar denominations? Can you tell me what beliefs they specifically have that other denominations don’t, what church services would be like, and any other information that is important?

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On YouTube you can find discussions/debates between the EO and others.
I liked this one ....but others between RCC and EO, etc. All the ones I have watched stay peaceful and respectful.