Rotterdam police open fire as Covid protest turns into ‘orgy of violence’

Landon Caeli

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And that's fine.

You just seemed bothered by white people getting shot at by police in Europe so I assumed you were worried about PEOPLE getting shot by police everywhere.

My mistake!

I was hoping we could do a topic that didn't revolve around the United States for once... Something "new".
 
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Sunshinee777

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"on a number of occasions the police felt it necessary to draw their weapons to defend themselves"..."They shot at protesters. People were injured"

I find it interesting how Aboutaleb can say it so nonchalantly, and everyone's is just like; oh, okay then... o_O

I mean, did they not just shoot at unarmed protesters? Because in American culture, this would spark outrage.

Of course they did, they have been doing this in Australia for a while. Shooting unarmed protesters on their back when they run away.

I mean this is pretty peaceful considering that governments have been breaking humanrights for the past two years. Any normal person would start protesting heavily in situation like this, constant propaganda, forcing quaranteens for healthy people, forcing to take the jabs (or you lose your job, can’t go shopping or restaurant) we are people, not cage animals.
 
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renniks

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Where in the Constitution is the right to throw rocks at anyone or start fires on the property that isn't yours?
It's not, but it's generally it's also frowned upon when the law shoots people for arson. There were lots of hard projectiles thrown at police in 2020 here, like frozen water bottles, which have the potential to injure or kill. But police were not allowed to use deadly force against the ones doing it.
 
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rambot

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I was hoping we could do a topic that didn't revolve around the United States for once... Something "new".
I appreciate that. I'm curious about what my cousin's in amsterdam and around holland htink.....
 
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Nithavela

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That depends whether the shooting is ruled justified or not.
Then I guess we'll have to wait and see how justified these shootings was before claiming that the Netherlands have no human rights.
 
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LightLoveHope

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No, the subject is the police shooting of unarmed civilians. That's the topic of this thread.
Riots are a problem. How do the police calm them down without using lethal force.
The riot act used in the british empire was, clear the streets in 15 minutes or be shot.
Over the years you see water cannon, riot shields and walking lines of people, Kettling where the group are contained for 4 to 8 hours in a small area and not allowed out, rubber bullets, tear gas.

Kettling seems to work when protests go into riots and the groups can be isolated.

If the above does not work, it often comes down to police shooting at people.

I have a lot of sympathy for the police against a group intent on violent damage to property and people and not contained within a small group. Why should a policeman sacrifice their lives for the sake of this group? What right of the group have to avoid the ultimate sanction of lethal force?

Peaceful protest is one thing, or peacefully stopping movement on the roads or transport system. It is annoying and creates attention to the cause, but is passive in terms of threat and harm.

For me the subject which the people are rioting about does matter. There is a line between revolutionary protest, which overthrows the current power structure and complaint against the current power structure.
If it is an attempt at revolution, different tactics will be used rather than just a complaint about injustice and bad response, like the black lives matter protests over police killing suspects on the street.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Riots are a problem. How do the police calm them down without using lethal force.
The riot act used in the british empire was, clear the streets in 15 minutes or be shot.
Over the years you see water cannon, riot shields and walking lines of people, Kettling where the group are contained for 4 to 8 hours in a small area and not allowed out, rubber bullets, tear gas.

Kettling seems to work when protests go into riots and the groups can be isolated.

If the above does not work, it often comes down to police shooting at people.

I have a lot of sympathy for the police against a group intent on violent damage to property and people and not contained within a small group. Why should a policeman sacrifice their lives for the sake of this group? What right of the group have to avoid the ultimate sanction of lethal force?

Peaceful protest is one thing, or peacefully stopping movement on the roads or transport system. It is annoying and creates attention to the cause, but is passive in terms of threat and harm.

For me the subject which the people are rioting about does matter. There is a line between revolutionary protest, which overthrows the current power structure and complaint against the current power structure.
If it is an attempt at revolution, different tactics will be used rather than just a complaint about injustice and bad response, like the black lives matter protests over police killing suspects on the street.

I think it's interesting that citizens living in Monarchies like the Netherlands and the UK seem to have a culture that is far more protective of it's government's actions than what I'm familiar with.

Do you suppose there's any truth in this statement?

...Because in my country, this would have quickly sparked massive outrage, so I'm trying to understand why this protection of government exists in these parts of Europe, and I'm thinking it's related to the historical existence of a monarchial enriched culture, where people still feel compelled to side with royalty, as it remains engrained in the culture or tradition.

Queen Máxima of the Netherlands - Wikipedia
 
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LightLoveHope

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I think it's interesting that citizens living in Monarchies like the Netherlands and the UK seem to have a culture that is far more protective of it's government's actions than what I'm familiar with.

Do you suppose there's any truth in this statement?

...Because in my country, this would have quickly sparked massive outrage, so I'm trying to understand why this protection of government exists in these parts of Europe, and I'm thinking it's related to the historical existence of a monarchial enriched culture, where people still feel compelled to side with royalty, as it remains engrained in the culture or tradition.

Queen Máxima of the Netherlands - Wikipedia

You raise an interesting emotional inheritence issue.
I would say as children we pick up on the emotional balances of our parents and our pier group at school. If over successive generations the governments have been emotionally trusted and delivered, that will be reflected in the cultural sensitivities expressed.

I think this is just an emotional measure of emotional turmoil, nothing more.
The emotional feeling from the US is distrust of government and criticism of any failure real or otherwise.
When you look at the level of medical regulation in the US compared to europe, the US has 1/3 the level of safety checks, areas that must be done than in Europe. Without these safety checks simply things will fail damaging health, which in turn will generate distrust in officials etc.

But I suspect the focus is wrong. It is the lack of safety that is at fault. Which is ironic as to correct this would take more government intervention, which is what the emotional balance is set up to resist.

Brexit in the UK shows the absurdity of these feelings. The economic reality is the UK economy needs large parts of Europe working here. Being integrated into the EU has decision issue problems, except almost zero failures of this process could actually be shown to be true. If anything the UK had benefited and blossomed from being part of the EU though slightly at a distance.

Now after brexit, nothing has got better, rather everything is more difficult and expensive and UK companies have lost market share as a result. It is amazing this whole process was driven by hatred of foreigners and people living in isolated non-integrated communities. Cities and graduates who knew the more modern world reality voted and saw how things have changed and voted likewise.
 
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