Joseph Ephraim is Christianity

Just The Facts

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 26, 2003
4,939
109
63
Visit site
✟80,681.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Hello All

This is another long one but it is mostly verses to back up the Point being made.

Dispensationalist Theology is not wrong they just do not see how God fulfilled his promise.

Covenant theologist are not wrong they just do not understand how God fulfilled his Promise.

What did Jesus mean by this

[24] He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Jesus did not say this by accident he did not say the House of Israel by accident. Covenant Theologist would have us believe this just means Jesus was sent to Jewish sinners. That is ridiculous, Jesus knew exactly what he was saying. He knew full well the House of Israel is not The House of Judah. The House of Israel had been lost for over 700 years at this point scattered among the nations. Jesus is saying he has not come for the House of Judah because he knows they will reject him. He is coming for the (by Jesus' time) millions of descendants of the House of Israel.

Here again he confirms this the other Nation is the House of Israel.

Mt:21:43: Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

So it will be taken away from the nation of Judea. Who is the only other Nation God has a covenant with and promised salvation to? The nation of Israel which disappeared in 715 BC and which Jesus’ brother James tells us are scattered abroad.

1: James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

First let us look at How God says he will save the House of Jacob / Joseph / Israel.

Isaiah 27: 6: He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit. ……………….8: In measure, when it shooteth forth, thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind. 9: By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin;.

So they TAKE ROOT and Fill The World with Fruit and are saved by Fruit that takes away sins….does that sound a bit familiar.

So who is the ROOT they take?

Rv:5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, "Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals."

Isa:11:10 In that day the root of Jesse shall stand as an ensign to the peoples; him shall the nations seek, and his dwellings shall be glorious.

Now look at how Christians are saved 99% of the statements are about a tree(root) bringing forth fruit. I have posted every verse I could find to show the sheer magnitude of scriptural evidence to this point.

Mt:3:8: Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Mt:3:10: And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mt:7:16: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Mt:7:17: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mt:7:18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mt:7:19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mt:7:20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Mt:12:33: Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Mt:13:8: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Mt:13:22: He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Mt:13:23: But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Mt:13:26: But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

Mt:21:34: And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

Mt:21:41: They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Mt:21:43: Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Mt:26:29: But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mk:4:7: And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

Mk:4:8: And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

Mk:4:19: And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Mk:4:20: And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Mk:4:28: For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

Mk:4:29: But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.

Rom:1:13: Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Rom:6:21: What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Rom:6:22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom:7:4: Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom:8:23: And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Rom:11:16: For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Rom:16:5: Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Cor:14:14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Cor:15:20: But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Cor:15:23: But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Cor:16:15: I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

2Cor:9:10: Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

Gal:5:22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph:5:9: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

Phil:1:11: Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Phil:4:17: Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

Col:1:6: Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Col:1:10: That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

2Tm:2:6: The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

Ti:3:14: And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Heb:12:11: Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Heb:13:15: By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Jms:1:18: Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Jms:3:17: But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Jms:3:18: And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Jms:5:7: Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

Jms:5:18: And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

2Pt:1:8: For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rv:14:4: These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Mk:12:2: And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.

Lk:3:8: Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Lk:3:9: And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Lk:6:43: For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Lk:6:44: For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

Lk:8:8: And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Lk:8:14: And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Lk:8:15: But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Lk:12:17: And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

Lk:12:18: And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.

Lk:13:6: He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

Lk:13:7: Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
 
Last edited:

Just The Facts

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 26, 2003
4,939
109
63
Visit site
✟80,681.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Part 2 told you there were a lot of verses


Lk:13:9: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Lk:20:10: And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.

Jn:4:36: And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

Jn:12:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn:15:2: Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Jn:15:4: Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Jn:15:5: I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jn:15:8: Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Jn:15:16: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Or how about how he saves the House of Judah

Isa:37:31: And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:

I think I have broken by 100 verses. Do you really believe Jesus the Apostles and the Saints continuously referring to a root/tree and fruit to save is an accident.................. it is a direct reference to Isaiah.

Now there is a mountain of evidence to show that the lost 10 tribes migrated and became the settlers of Europe. There is archaeological evidence and scriptural evidence but that is for another thread.

I want to be clear I am not prompting British Israelism in any way shape or form. I am simply stating that the Lost Tribes migrated and settled areas that go from Greece to Scandinavia and Russia to Ireland

Not every Christian is of the House of Joseph / Israel / Ephraim but many, many are.

Now we all know that Paul went to the Gentles yet look at what he says to the Gentiles at Corinth

1Cor:10:1: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

Paul is clearly telling the Corinthians they are of the Lost Tribes. He says that their Fathers were under the cloud of Exodus and passed through the sea. I bet you never clued into that verse before did you

Paul is making a very strong point here DON"T BE IGNORANT God has and is saving the lost Tribes through Christianity.

Look at James:

1: James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

This letter was written to the Roman provinces.

This was an amazing fulfilment of Gods promise To the House of Israel The reality is that while not every Christian is of the House of Israel many many, many are. And every single descendant of the House of Israel/ Joseph has been exposed to and even taught the Gospel.

Great and amazing are the ways of God.

Now let us look at what God says this material Birth right fulfilment is.

4: then I will give you your rains in their season, and the land shall yield its increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. 5And your threshing shall last to the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last to the time for sowing; and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land securely. 6And I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid; and I will remove evil beasts from the land, and the sword shall not go through your land. 7And you shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. 8Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall chase ten thousand; and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword. 9And I will have regard for you and make you fruitful and multiply you, and will confirm my covenant with you. 10And you shall eat old store long kept, and you shall clear out the old to make way for the new.

11: And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

God renames Jacob Israel. . When Jacob arrives in Egypt he finds not only Joseph alive but that he has two sons Ephraim and Manasseh we pick up the material Promise of the Birth Right in chapter 48:

5And now your two sons, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine, as Reuben and Simeon are.

11And Israel said to Joseph, "I had not thought to see your face; and lo, God has let me see your children also."

[16] the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and in them let my name be perpetuated, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."


Now notice how detailed this passing of the birthright is God renames the House of Joseph the House of Israel.

13: And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.14: And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn. 15: And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,16: The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Here the promise is defined. Not only will they be a great Company of Nations all born of the promise they will be all over the earth. They shall have the richest soil (fatness of the Earth) all the water (dew of the Earth) all the riches (gold, silver, etc.) an abundance of grain they will rule over the other nations of the Earth and will possess the Gate of their enemies. They also will have to throw out last year's grain to make way for this year's grain. In war they will over power their enemies even when out numbered. I will say it again this is Christianity, especially core Christianity That is Europe and all of its colonies in North America, Australia etc. Asia minor The Balkans Ukraine, Scandinavia and much of Russia.

Once Again let me be very, very clear, I am not prompting British Israelism in any way shape or form. I am simply stating that the Lost Tribes migrated and settled areas that go from Greece to Scandinavia and Russia to Ireland and that these peoples were the other nation Jesus spoke of. The Lost Sheep of the Nation of Israel

Now what have we, Christianity, done with this great covenant promise of God. We have turned his name into an abomination in ways the Jewish people never even thought of. We make their betrayal of the covenant look like kiddie play we make them look like amateurs. Do I really have to spell it out for you. We have become a harlot and her many Harlot daughters. We pile excess luxury upon excess luxury we destroy food crops to keep the price high so we have good profit while the children of the creation of God die of starvation all over the world. We are responsible for all most all the major wars since Christ. The wars for control of Doctrine, The Crusades, the subjugation of the Americas, the burning of Heretics and Witches. WW I, WWII, all carried out by so called Christians……………… Need I go on.

Here is the message of REV to the Churches to Christianity REPENT OR RECEIVE THE PLAGUES.

ALL PROMISES TO THE HEBREWS WERE FULFLLED IN JESUS. Any Jewish person who wants to be saved can be saved and as Jesus and the Saints tell us EVERYONE GETS SAVED the Exact same way.

There is no promise left to fulfil the birth Right was filled in Christianity both the Material Birthright to the House of Israel and the Promise to the House of Judah that Jesus would be born of the Tribe of Judah.

3: Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4: And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

All 144,000 are Christians just because 12,000 are of the Tribe of Judah does not mean they are not Christian. Is anyone really saying there are not 12,000 Jews who have accepted Jesus. The reality is there are more descendants of the tribe of Judah that are Christians then there are Jewish people in modern Israel

The 144,000 are Christians they are not literal virgins they are redeemed from Earth the same way Everyone gets redeemed the same way everyone else gets SEALED by

REPENTANCE AND FAITH UNTO WORKS.

Jn:6:27: Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

2Cor:1:22: Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph:4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Yes Christianity is the House of Joseph and along with those saved from the House of Judah these Two Houses these Two Olive Trees these Two Lampstands (two churches of Christianity) shall be Gods Two Witnesses against the Beast from the Pit that he alone is God.

[10] "You are my witnesses," says the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

[1] "But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen! [2] Thus says the LORD who made you, who formed you from the womb and will help you: Fear not, O Jacob my servant, Jeshu'run whom I have chosen. [3] For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour my Spirit upon your descendants, and my blessing on your offspring.[6] Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. [7] Who is like me? Let him proclaim it, let him declare and set it forth before me. Who has announced from of old the things to come? Let them tell us what is yet to be. [8] Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me?

Please I beg all who read ................here the Word of the Lamb to the Churches
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

christian1724

Active Member
Oct 8, 2021
32
31
64
Texas
✟21,630.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It's not often that I find people online with this knowledge/awareness of the difference between the Jews and the house of Israel. I can see that you've been on this forum for quite a while. Are there many others on here, in your estimation, that have this awareness?

I read the book "Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright" many years ago. I won't say that I agree with the authors final analysis (British Ephraim/Israel), but it did open up much of the Old Testament for me.

I don't know how anyone can understand the Old Testament without having a solid understanding of who Israel really is as opposed to who we are taught that they are here in modern times.

For example how can anyone understand the riddle Ezekiel 17 without this foundational understanding of who Israel is?

Thank you for your post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zao is life
Upvote 0

christian1724

Active Member
Oct 8, 2021
32
31
64
Texas
✟21,630.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
In case anyone might be interested in the book that I mentioned above - "Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright" by J. H. Allen - it's is free online.

If you don't firmly grasp who Israel is and the relationship that God has with them and for example, how the house of Israel differs from the house of Judah, (and if you're open to help from others) this book will fix that quickly. It also includes a reasonable tracking of the house of Israel through history. A word of warning, it is not the easiest read but it is extremely well documented/backed up with biblical references.
 
Upvote 0

Just The Facts

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 26, 2003
4,939
109
63
Visit site
✟80,681.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Hi 1724

Welcome to our little community. I have been here for over 20 years now I think.

It's not often that I find people online with this knowledge/awareness of the difference between the Jews and the house of Israel. I can see that you've been on this forum for quite a while. Are there many others on here, in your estimation, that have this awareness?

Some not many. This forum has many different people with many different views. I know there are some who understand the difference between the two houses. Most disagree and think it is all about the Church Covenant Theology or all about The Church Age and the Dispensationalism and the coming saving of the Hebrews and fulfillment of the material Birthright. I see both being correct just that both were fulfilled in Jesus and the Root and the Fruit. Abrahams Descendants do indeed Control the World and have for hundreds if not thousands of Years as Christianity controls that vast majority of the Worlds territory and wealth and resources. And Christianity is indeed Israel.

I don't know how anyone can understand the Old Testament without having a solid understanding of who Israel really is as opposed to who we are taught that they are here in modern times.

So much was lost in the 4th century as Rome Conquered Christianity. Take heart though on the coming day the 144,000 (The Latter rain) will be sealed. Then shall the truth be revealed in power by the Spirit. To each in their time and a Time for each.

For example how can anyone understand the riddle Ezekiel 17 without this foundational understanding of who Israel is?

Thank you for your post.

Thank you for your words and I am happy to have another Friend in Christ join us here. Eventually all eyes will be opened. It amazes me how God brought this all together fulfilling the Covenant to Abraham Isaac and Jacob both the material Birthright and the Spiritual Birthright all fulfilled in Christianity. How the promise that David would rule over the house of Israel and how everyone from the house of Israel says to The Root of David......... Jesus is Lord King of Kings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: christian1724
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,721
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,925.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Eventually all eyes will be opened.
I agree with the truth of the House of Israel now consisting manly of Christians.
Your comment above is correct, as most people have been blinded to God's amazing Plan for His Israelite peoples.

I have many articles on the subject of the 10 lost tribes, free on my website; logostelos.info
 
  • Like
Reactions: christian1724
Upvote 0

Freedm

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2020
740
172
42
Austin TX
✟40,387.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I have many articles on the subject of the 10 lost tribes, free on my website; logostelos.info
I checked out your website where you say this "Few understand the prophetic significance of this statement. Modern Ephraim and Manasseh carry the name Israel. Conversely, other nations of Israelite ancestry—despite definite links to the “lost” ten tribes—were not to bear the name Israel. "

I get that Ephraim and Manasseh were explicitly said to bear the name Israel, but it also seems to me that the lost tribes bear the name Israel by descendent rights alone, and unless that name is taken away from them, would still bear it. Are you saying the name Israel was taken away from the lost ten tribes? If so, please explain, and if not, then on what basis do you say that these "were not to bear the name Israel"?
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,721
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,925.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I checked out your website where you say this "Few understand the prophetic significance of this statement. Modern Ephraim and Manasseh carry the name Israel. Conversely, other nations of Israelite ancestry—despite definite links to the “lost” ten tribes—were not to bear the name Israel. "

I get that Ephraim and Manasseh were explicitly said to bear the name Israel, but it also seems to me that the lost tribes bear the name Israel by descendent rights alone, and unless that name is taken away from them, would still bear it. Are you saying the name Israel was taken away from the lost ten tribes? If so, please explain, and if not, then on what basis do you say that these "were not to bear the name Israel"?
We Christian peoples are the true Israelites of God, but we do not have that name as yet.
The Jews have usurped the word 'Israel' for their State. We are still scattered among the nations, awaiting the Day when the Lord will clear and cleanse the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43

The ten tribes lost their identity and name, as God planned; Deuteronomy 32:26
 
Upvote 0

Freedm

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2020
740
172
42
Austin TX
✟40,387.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
We Christian peoples are the true Israelites of God, but we do not have that name as yet.
The Jews have usurped the word 'Israel' for their State. We are still scattered among the nations, awaiting the Day when the Lord will clear and cleanse the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43

The ten tribes lost their identity and name, as God planned; Deuteronomy 32:26
Is there any other scriptural support for those tribes having lost the name Israel?
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,721
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,925.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH

It’s an unfortunate fact that most people – Christian and secular, believe that the Jews in the land of Israel and abroad have already rejoined with the 10 lost tribes - OR the 10 tribes are lost permanently, absorbed into the nations.

Certainly, at the time of the Assyrian conquest and captivity of the 10 tribes, many escaped to Judah. These people practiced Judaism and became Jews. Note that 200,000 people from Judah were also taken into exile at that time according to Assyrian records.

Also note that some modern Jewish scholars admit that the 10 tribes are still in the world. In 1948, David Ben Gurion, was intending to declare the country of the Jews, to be the State of Judah. At the last moment he named the new country “Israel”.

Speculation as to the identity of the House of Israel has used up a lot of paper and ink, but most make the mistake of thinking that because some people groups have certain Jewish traditions, then they must be a lost tribe. It may be that they are Jews, or have been influenced by Judaism, but they are not of the House of Israel.

The Bible says that Israel would lose its language and identity and be scattered to the ends of the earth. But; Judah will be an object of derision and horror in the world. Jeremiah 29:18
This prophecy has certainly come true!

1 Kings 12:24 The Lord says- the split between Israel and Judah is My doing.

Zechariah 11:14 The Brotherhood annulled between Israel and Judah.

2 Chronicles 10:19 From that day to this, Israel is in rebellion against Judah.

Micah 2:3-10 describes the exile of the House of Israel and Micah 2:12-13 is their return.


Ezekiel 11:1-12 Ezekiel is talking to the leaders of Judah, delivering judgement on them for not keeping the laws of the Lord.

Ezekiel 11:13-17…. all the Israelites who are left? They are your brothers and kinsmen, this whole people of Israel, to whom the inhabitants now in Jerusalem have said, “They are separated far from the Lord; the land has been made over to us to possess”. Say, therefore.... When I sent them far away among the nations and dispersed them over the earth... I became their sanctuary.... Say, therefore..... I shall gather you from among the nations..... I shall give the land of Israel to you.

Zephaniah10:6-12 Triumph to Judah, Victory to Joseph... as though I had never cast them off. Ephraim like warriors.... rejoice in the Lord. I shall whistle to call them in. In far off lands, they will remember Me....Their enemies destroyed.... resettled back in Lebanon and Gilead.

This clearly describes the Psalms 83 event, then His people are gathered into the Land.

It is no wonder that so many ignore prophecy, as when they think that Israel and Judah are a single entity, only confusion results.

So, the prophecies to Judah, Jerusalem and the Jews pertain to the House of Judah.

The House of Israel, led by Ephraim (Joseph), has many prophecies telling of their blessings and final rejoining with Judah in the land. Each House has tasks appointed to it for the present days: Judah, the visible entity and Israel the Christian peoples.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Freedm
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟784,067.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH

It’s an unfortunate fact that most people – Christian and secular, believe that the Jews in the land of Israel and abroad have already rejoined with the 10 lost tribes - OR the 10 tribes are lost permanently, absorbed into the nations.

Certainly, at the time of the Assyrian conquest and captivity of the 10 tribes, many escaped to Judah. These people practiced Judaism and became Jews. Note that 200,000 people from Judah were also taken into exile at that time according to Assyrian records.

Also note that some modern Jewish scholars admit that the 10 tribes are still in the world. In 1948, David Ben Gurion, was intending to declare the country of the Jews, to be the State of Judah. At the last moment he named the new country “Israel”.

Speculation as to the identity of the House of Israel has used up a lot of paper and ink, but most make the mistake of thinking that because some people groups have certain Jewish traditions, then they must be a lost tribe. It may be that they are Jews, or have been influenced by Judaism, but they are not of the House of Israel.

The Bible says that Israel would lose its language and identity and be scattered to the ends of the earth. But; Judah will be an object of derision and horror in the world. Jeremiah 29:18
This prophecy has certainly come true!

1 Kings 12:24 The Lord says- the split between Israel and Judah is My doing.

Zechariah 11:14 The Brotherhood annulled between Israel and Judah.

2 Chronicles 10:19 From that day to this, Israel is in rebellion against Judah.

Micah 2:3-10 describes the exile of the House of Israel and Micah 2:12-13 is their return.


Ezekiel 11:1-12 Ezekiel is talking to the leaders of Judah, delivering judgement on them for not keeping the laws of the Lord.

Ezekiel 11:13-17…. all the Israelites who are left? They are your brothers and kinsmen, this whole people of Israel, to whom the inhabitants now in Jerusalem have said, “They are separated far from the Lord; the land has been made over to us to possess”. Say, therefore.... When I sent them far away among the nations and dispersed them over the earth... I became their sanctuary.... Say, therefore..... I shall gather you from among the nations..... I shall give the land of Israel to you.

Zephaniah10:6-12 Triumph to Judah, Victory to Joseph... as though I had never cast them off. Ephraim like warriors.... rejoice in the Lord. I shall whistle to call them in. In far off lands, they will remember Me....Their enemies destroyed.... resettled back in Lebanon and Gilead.

This clearly describes the Psalms 83 event, then His people are gathered into the Land.

It is no wonder that so many ignore prophecy, as when they think that Israel and Judah are a single entity, only confusion results.

So, the prophecies to Judah, Jerusalem and the Jews pertain to the House of Judah.

The House of Israel, led by Ephraim (Joseph), has many prophecies telling of their blessings and final rejoining with Judah in the land. Each House has tasks appointed to it for the present days: Judah, the visible entity and Israel the Christian peoples.

You are well aware that the Abrahamic genome is ubiquitous in the entirety of humanity.

So what's with this talk of "10 lost tribes" and other racialized delusions?

They are the antithesis of "lost".

They are found within every member of the human race.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,721
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,925.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
You are well aware that the Abrahamic genome is ubiquitous in the entirety of humanity.

So what's with this talk of "10 lost tribes" and other racialized delusions?

They are the antithesis of "lost".

They are found within every member of the human race.
jgr; this subject has been argued over before by us and by many others.
While I do agree with the ubiquity of Abrahams descendants, there is no doubt in my mind that God does have a secret here.
He is watching His people; the ones who were taken into captivity by Assyria, who migrated across Europe and who now are scattered among the nations. Amos 9:9
God sent Jesus to give them the Gospel of His salvation and WE accepted it. Many from other races also have joined into the true Israel; the branches of the Israel Tree, namely Jesus Christ.
But the majority of Christians are descended from Jacobs 10 sons. People who are now from every race, nation and language.

We have experienced the Blessings that God promised to those sons, we are the peoples who overcome Satan, as Jacob did. We are Israelites by faith and descent.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟784,067.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
jgr; this subject has been argued over before by us and by many others.
While I do agree with the ubiquity of Abrahams descendants, there is no doubt in my mind that God does have a secret here.
He is watching His people; the ones who were taken into captivity by Assyria, who migrated across Europe and who now are scattered among the nations. Amos 9:9
God sent Jesus to give them the Gospel of His salvation and WE accepted it. Many from other races also have joined into the true Israel; the branches of the Israel Tree, namely Jesus Christ.
But the majority of Christians are descended from Jacobs 10 sons. People who are now from every race, nation and language.

We have experienced the Blessings that God promised to those sons, we are the peoples who overcome Satan, as Jacob did. We are Israelites by faith and descent.

God has no secrets in identifying His People, keras.

They are determined by only one criterion, solely and exclusively.

Spiritual, not physical, DNA.

Faith and obedience alone.

Nothing else.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,721
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,925.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
God has no secrets in identifying His People, keras.

They are determined by only one criterion, solely and exclusively.

Spiritual, not physical, DNA.

Faith and obedience alone.

Nothing else.
You are a prime example of how well God does keep His secrets.
The issue of who are all the true Israelites will soon be resolved and it is a waste of effort to fight against God's will in this matter.

Our concern right now should be to prepare; Spiritually and physically for the worldwide disaster of the Sixth Seal event.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟784,067.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You are a prime example of how well God does keep His secrets.
The issue of who are all the true Israelites will soon be resolved and it is a waste of effort to fight against God's will in this matter.

Our concern right now should be to prepare; Spiritually and physically for the worldwide disaster of the Sixth Seal event.

My faith and obedience is no secret.

Since we are all Israelites genetically, true Israelites are identified by their faith and obedience.

Nothing else.

That's no secret.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Just The Facts

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 26, 2003
4,939
109
63
Visit site
✟80,681.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Hi keras

We Christian peoples are the true Israelites of God, but we do not have that name as yet.
The Jews have usurped the word 'Israel' for their State. We are still scattered among the nations, awaiting the Day when the Lord will clear and cleanse the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43

The ten tribes lost their identity and name, as God planned; Deuteronomy 32:26

Actually that is not correct. The Jews in Modern Israel wanted to call their Nation Judea but America would only agree to support them if they called it Israel.

The powers that be in America ie: George Bush have been planning the "Rebirth" of the Nation of Israel since 1825.

I know what you are thinking George Bush what is he on about now.

George_Bush1796_retouched.jpg


This is George Bush The Great Great Great Uncle of the President George Bush and in 1848 he published his book "Valley Of Vision The Dry Bones of Israel Revived: In it he states “the thralldom and oppression which has so long ground them (the Jews) to the dust,” and he called for “elevating” the Jews “to a rank of honorable repute among the nations of the earth” by restoring the Jews to the land of Israel where the bulk would be converted to Christianity. He openly stated that it was Americas destiny to do this and that they must control the political process in America to achieve this goal.

So the Jews calling their Nation Israel was the will of the Power elite of America not the Jews. You want to know who Controls Israel take a look and see.

Israelis Supreme.jpg


This is the Israelis Supreme Court Building with is Masonic All seeing Eye Pyramid 33 steps to the entrance.

Yes I know it is all just a conspiracy theory. This whole thing is just ridiculas right!!!! Right!!!!! It is just a coincidence that The messianic Symbols are all over America and Now Israel. I mean it is not like the Knights Templar and their descendants the Masons went to say a Holy War because they wanted to rule the World from Jerusalem.

I want to be clear I do not think this is the kingdom of the Beast or anything of the sort nor do I think that the beast from the Pit is a Mason blah blah blah.

I do think that Modern Israel is a direct result of a Group of People's creation of a doctrine and the fulfillment of that same doctrine. All based on a Covenant Theology that is just plain wrong. They created the doctrine with its claimed crucial event and then created the event.

Here we are almost 75 years after its creation and the Generation that saw it created is all dead and gone. So much for the Generation that sees these things will not pass away. I mean even people that were born the day it was founded are now 73 years old.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟784,067.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
jgr; explain to us Ezekiel 20:30-38
Note that it refers to all of the Israelites... Judah alone is prophesied in Ezekiel 20:45-48 and Ezekiel 21:1-17

keras, explain to us what you think can substitute for faith and obedience.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,721
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,925.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Here we are almost 75 years after its creation and the Generation that saw it created is all dead and gone. So much for the Generation that sees these things will not pass away. I mean even people that were born the day it was founded are now 73 years old.
I do agree with the naming of the Jewish State of Israel. That was a Satanic deception, but also allowed by God because His faithful peoples; the true Israelites of God are kept hidden at this time.

I don't agree that the generation that saw the formation of the Jewish State are dead and gone, because I am one of them! I was 7 years old in 1948. I can't say that I heard about it or would have attached any significance to it if I had.
But I sure do now and I fully expect to live thru all that must happen and see the glorious Return of Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,721
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,925.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
keras, explain to us what you think can substitute for faith and obedience.
A+ for persistence, jgr!
All of Gods people do have faith and obedience. They come from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10
No one can be sure of their ancestry much beyond 10 generations. But be assured that God does. He knows where the 10 Northern Tribes of the House of Israel went to. Also where the genuine people of the House of Judah are; not many, if any are Israelis.
They will all be gathered back into all of the holy Land, as Ezekiel 20:33-38 and many other prophesies tell us.
 
Upvote 0