U.S. Grant
Active Member
- Jun 7, 2021
- 230
- 54
- 63
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
True. I don't know why you speak as if I disagreed with this somewhere. Certainly the blood/death in the form of a propitiation is necessary to fulfill the righteous requirement under the law, but that doesn't make the cruelty of the cross God's righteousness on display.
Well we're having some semantical confusion here. So let me show you some scriptures indicating what I mean by two different "forms of righteousness".
Hebrews 10:16, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Matthew 23:26,
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Romans 10
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
I think we may have some disconnect here. Allow me to rephrase. As we become conformed to Christ the justice of an eye for an eye is replaced with turn the other cheek, return good for evil, and pray for our enemies. This sentiment is reiterated in "forgive us our trespasses even as we forgive those who trespass against us".
The righteousness revealed in the Christ is the righteousness of God's Holy Character even because Jesus is the true Light. This same righteousness of Character is what we are believing in when we confess Jesus as Lord, the son of God. It is this Truth that sets us free from sin and the bondage of the law which is the power of sin. So it is I believe that when we pick up our cross and follow Jesus, we also become living sacrifices, and that we are the seed spoken of here: …when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Wherefore scripture says this: For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. This is a higher standard than what we understood righteousness to be before seeing Christ's self sacrificing Love on a cross. A scripture that comes to mind is, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled. And also, For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Yes this is true, but the only point I originally was making is that there is a higher standard of righteousness in Christ that we grow into, even because we are conforming/transforming into Christ out of a carnal mindset.
It says receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet KJV. Respectfully, this to me means the same as they punished themselves.
We 're arguing semantics. I'm not contesting that in Jesus there is redemption. I'm saying that the cruelty of the crucifixion wasn't the wrath of God.
Respectfully, I don't see how the law was preventing God from having mercy because it would violate His justice. It's as if your saying that showing mercy is not a just act or that there was a law against mercy/compassion. Likewise, now that there are no more sacrifices for sin, then if we do sin, and God knows I have, how is His justice satisfied? Wouldn't it be better to say that it was God's mercy that sent His son to be sacrificed so that sins could be forgiven? (And we can forgive sin).
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Who is the god of this world into which Jesus was sent? Have you not considered that it was the devil and his angels that was the administrator of the Old Covenant, the wicked husbandman who turns the temple into a marketplace and who crucified the Christ,.. and the Christ was the means to take away his power?
Hebrews 10:
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Matthew 21
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Don't get me wrong, I know that justice is necessary because of injustices. But there is no sound law where the just and innocent should be punished for the injustices of others. So when I forgive others their injustices done to me, then I am carrying my cross to follow after Christ, and in my mind I am a living sacrifice because I truly believe those who would sin against me, don't know what they're doing at the time.
I have never seen animal sacrifices as God's wrath being appeased. As if the death of the innocent and blameless pleased God. I saw such sacrifices as a means of cleansing one's own conscience. Animals were used like money to trade in those times, and people could assuage their guilt by sacrificing something of value to them as a payback of sorts.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
I believe that changing from a carnal mind to a spiritual mind is what is necessary to become perfected in Christ. So that only the lamb of God can take away sins, and actually transform the sinner, because conforming to his Character will make one perfect. The god of this world is the enemy of the Gospel. I therefore don't preach a god that is merciless, but a God that is merciful.
Yes this is true, but the only point I originally was making is that there is a higher standard of righteousness in Christ that we grow into.
The beginning of the righteousness of God, that Jesus brought into the world and gives to the heart is faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God, and only by faith can we fulfill His royal law to love our neighbors:
I.e. we do it because we believe it is the good and right thing to do.
All other 'righteousness' without faith of Jesus is forced or self-righteousness. It's not the love of God from a pure heart.
Once we begin that road of God's righteousness, we then learn to add to it knowledge and wisdom and patience:
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
...as well as cleansing the sins of the spirit:
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice. And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Last edited:
Upvote
0