WHAT IS GOD'S GRACE FOR?
- Thread starter LoveGodsWord
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No one is arguing without grace so who are you arguing with? We all need God's grace because we are all sinners *Matthew 9:12-13; Romans 3:9-23; Ephesians 2:8-9. God's grace however is given to us so that we can be obedient to the faith and live a new life of holiness in believing and following what God's Word says *Titus 2:11-12; Romans 1:5. You seem to be making arguments no one is arguing about.
Take Care
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FredVB
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GenemZ said:
God does give us more to see, we do need to be ready to see more than what we are shown from the Bible. But the Bible is provided from God revealing what God sees we need to be shown, and we will not learn so much of what is needed without really knowing what we can from the Bible. And God shows in other ways what we miss from the Bible that we still need to find in it.
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GenemZ
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That is ambiguous. Could you please show us an example of what you meant?
It can mean anything. And, as it stands, it sounds like an opening to bring in false doctrine.
Please clarify for us all?
grace and peace.......
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GenemZ
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Some take 1 John 3:9 as to meaning they will never sin any more.
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
John was revealing to his congregations that its now possible by God's grace not to sin. To do so, John cited their point of their salvation as an example of the power of God over sinning.
Keep in mind. Many of those in John's congregation came out of the pagan way of life. They had been free to commit sins on a regular basis without any concept of morality as we know it to keep them in check. Now they were being told not to sin. But? "How is that possible?" John cited an example to them as to how they could not sin.
The idea for them of not being able to sin was something they never considered possible before. For the likes of bisexuality, homosexuality, and fornication with temple prostitutes had been a norm to their culture. It was an ingrained part of their culture for Satan had been the ruler of their people.
How was John to give them proof? That when we are filled with the Spirit they can not sin?
To do so John picked their moment of their salvation. For the Greek indicates that he was citing about the moment of them being saved as an example of not being able to sin.
Here is something taken from notes of my pastor who taught us regularly from the Greek text. He took the time to show us when needed, about the importance of the Greek with its tenses. That to have an accurate understanding of God's Word it is vitally important to learn about the Greek tenses which mainstream translation tend to gloss over.
1 John 3:9 with the Greek tense expressed...
Note: At the moment of salvation you are not able to sin because you are in under the control of the Holy Spirit. When from your own volition you decide to sin, you immediately are back in the Cosmic System. That is when you need to catch yourself and recognize sin, and utilize 1 John 1:9 to restore your walking in the Holy Spirit.
That's how its supposed to work.
Anyone who thinks he can no longer sin while on earth is lying to himself. 1 John 1:10 makes that clear and known to us.
grace and peace ..........
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
John was revealing to his congregations that its now possible by God's grace not to sin. To do so, John cited their point of their salvation as an example of the power of God over sinning.
Keep in mind. Many of those in John's congregation came out of the pagan way of life. They had been free to commit sins on a regular basis without any concept of morality as we know it to keep them in check. Now they were being told not to sin. But? "How is that possible?" John cited an example to them as to how they could not sin.
The idea for them of not being able to sin was something they never considered possible before. For the likes of bisexuality, homosexuality, and fornication with temple prostitutes had been a norm to their culture. It was an ingrained part of their culture for Satan had been the ruler of their people.
How was John to give them proof? That when we are filled with the Spirit they can not sin?
To do so John picked their moment of their salvation. For the Greek indicates that he was citing about the moment of them being saved as an example of not being able to sin.
Here is something taken from notes of my pastor who taught us regularly from the Greek text. He took the time to show us when needed, about the importance of the Greek with its tenses. That to have an accurate understanding of God's Word it is vitally important to learn about the Greek tenses which mainstream translation tend to gloss over.
1 John 3:9 with the Greek tense expressed...
And at the moment when anyone is born from God,
he is not sinning because His seed (the Holy Spirit)
keeps residing in it.
Furthermore, he is not able to sin (while walking in the Spirit)
because he has been born from God.
he is not sinning because His seed (the Holy Spirit)
keeps residing in it.
Furthermore, he is not able to sin (while walking in the Spirit)
because he has been born from God.
Note: At the moment of salvation you are not able to sin because you are in under the control of the Holy Spirit. When from your own volition you decide to sin, you immediately are back in the Cosmic System. That is when you need to catch yourself and recognize sin, and utilize 1 John 1:9 to restore your walking in the Holy Spirit.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins
and purify us from all unrighteousness."
and purify us from all unrighteousness."
That's how its supposed to work.
Anyone who thinks he can no longer sin while on earth is lying to himself. 1 John 1:10 makes that clear and known to us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins
and purify us from all unrighteousness.
If we contend/assert that we have not sinned, we make him out to
be a liar and his word is not in us..
and purify us from all unrighteousness.
If we contend/assert that we have not sinned, we make him out to
be a liar and his word is not in us..
grace and peace ..........
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FredVB
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No, it is not really ambiguous. It can be said by those who would bring in a false doctrine. But it is presumptuous to just assume that would likely be it. It is the truth. There is more to reality. And God knows it all. What the Bible has for us are essential things for the walk of his people with salvation made available. But there are more things that can help in the lives of each, and God cares for us to have the help we can have. And the reality is that there is more in the Bible than what we have already seen and learned, we are not done with it. God would have ways to show us more, that we didn't learn from yet. Like with stopping our sinning. If you know all that you should stop, you would not have to learn more of anything to not do. We all in this world need growth still.
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sawdust
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We might agree it is the truth if we understood what you mean. An actual example might better clarify your thoughts.
How can there be "more" to reality? Reality is what is. If it's not a part of reality how can it be real?
What "more things" are you talking about? This is where an example would be helpful.
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FredVB
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sawdust said:
It is funny that what I say is questioned with suspicion, and GenemZ agrees with this response, when my post was actually agreeing with some of what GenemZ was saying which I quoted there:
"We can study and read the Bible all we want. I've done that when first starting out. It left me with plenty of questions, and no answers. Questions are good! They make you appreciate finding a good teacher who can teach.
Reading for myself enabled me to comprehend a few things. I was able to get those for myself. But, I later found out I made too many errors out of ignorance and presumption. Unless someone who has the gift to truly study and teach others, to teach you? You will never be able to grow beyond your own natural limitations. For you must grow beyond your own abilities in order to become transformed in your thinking.
Grace makes otherwise stupid people to become wise when they find for themselves a gifted pastor teacher. Many pastors today (not all) are very rudimental and cause no significant growth in their hearers. Over time many churches have become stagnant ... Come back in three years and it will be the same things all over again. But Peter told us to be continuously growing IN GRACE and knowledge. Unless the one teaching you is constantly growing? We will remain spiritually retarded.
You must have your own walk with God to begin with... You must find yourself being led into answers in order to grow. Too many think church is traditional and set in its ways. They never grow up and mature in Christ. Nice people.. but never can grow up in wisdom and knowledge."
Let us ask what teacher he found that is better than what can yet be found in the Bible, with trusting God to help with learning from it.
I have no hidden agenda. God's will is shown in the Bible, from the start, with what is meant for us. And trust in God means trusting God in things we deal with in reality around us. And there is more to reality than we knew, or what we know, that can yet be shown, and there will still be more to reality that we still won't know.
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sawdust
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Now that clarifies what you were trying to say. But what's with the paranoia? There was no suspicion only a lack of understanding what you were saying. It may have been clear in your mind but it was not clear in ours. I had no idea what you were trying to say.
I agree with what you have said here.
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FredVB
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Now that clarifies what you were trying to say. But what's with the paranoia? There was no suspicion only a lack of understanding what you were saying. It may have been clear in your mind but it was not clear in ours. I had no idea what you were trying to say.
I agree with what you have said here.
Thank you. There was no paranoia from me. There shouldn't be. We can have reservation about something new shown to us. But there will be more things always that God will still show us.
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