Jesus teaching on the New Birth, Born Again !

Jesus is YHWH · Aug 21, 2021

John 3:3-10
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely, they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

So let’s go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- nowhere in this passage does it say that a man chooses to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in both cases of birth God is the Active One and the one who is birthed is passive in the process.

Summary: just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so too does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again)

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Regeneration-born again has to do with the wind in the context and parallels the new birth in that process.

This topic is specifically the New Birth, Born Again of the Spirit which is compared to the Wind and how it operates as Jesus the Master Teacher illustrated in John 3 to Nicodemus.

Here are a couple of questions to ponder from the text.

1- Do you control or have any influence over the wind?
2- Can you call the wind?

Neither can a person call Gods Spirit in the new birth as it’s an Act of GOD. See John 1:13. Born again by God.

The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 off the top of my head reading through the passage:

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom

hope this helps !!!

Albion · Aug 21, 2021

Some of that analysis is correct, but not all of it.

Jesus does say that it is essential to be born again of water and the spirit. Your approach is to ignore the "water" part and focus entirely upon the spirit.

The Holy Spirit obviously does NOT administer baptisms using water, and we know from the rest of the conversation that the reference is NOT to the act of giving physical birth (which Nicodemus first asked about). Therefore, Jesus is speaking of the importance of both the commitment AND the sacrament.

Jesus is YHWH · Aug 21, 2021

Albion said:
Some of that analysis is correct, but not all of it.

Jesus does say that it is essential to be born again of water and the spirit. Your approach is to ignore the "water" part and focus entirely upon the spirit.

The Holy Spirit obviously does NOT administer baptisms using water, and we know from the rest of the conversation that the reference is NOT to the act of giving physical birth (which Nicodemus first asked about). Therefore, Jesus is speaking of the importance of both the commitment AND the sacrament.

In John 3, Jesus uses the phrase “born of water” in answer to Nicodemus’s question about how to enter the kingdom of heaven. He told Nicodemus that he “must be born again” (John 3:3). Nicodemus questioned how such a thing could happen when he was a grown man. Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5).

Being “born of the Spirit” is easily interpreted—salvation involves a new life that only the Holy Spirit can produce (cf. 2 Corinthians 3:6). But there are a couple different schools of thought on what Jesus meant when He said, “born of water.” One perspective is that “born of water” refers to physical birth. Unborn babies float in a sack of amniotic fluid for nine months. When the time for birth arrives, that sack of water bursts, and the baby is born in a rush of water, entering the world as a new creature. This birth parallels being “born of the Spirit,” as a similar new birth occurs within our hearts (2 Corinthians 5:17). A person once-born has physical life; a person twice-born has eternal life (John 3:15–18, 36; 17:3; 1 Peter 1:23). Just as a baby contributes no effort to the birth process—the work is done by the mother—so it is with spiritual birth. We are merely the recipients of God’s grace as He gives us new birth through His Spirit (Ephesians 2:8–9). According to this view, Jesus was using a teaching technique He often employed by comparing a spiritual truth with a physical reality. Nicodemus did not understand spiritual birth, but he could understand physical birth so that was where Jesus took him.

The other perspective is that “born of water” refers to spiritual cleansing and that Nicodemus would have naturally understood it that way. According to this view, “born of water” and “born of the Spirit” are different ways of saying the same thing, once metaphorically and once literally. Jesus’ words “born of water and the Spirit” describe different aspects of the same spiritual birth, or of what it means to be “born again.” So, when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must “be born of water,” He was referring to his need for spiritual cleansing. Throughout the Old Testament, water is used figuratively of spiritual cleansing. For example, Ezekiel 36:25 says, “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities” (see also Numbers 19:17–19; and Psalm 51:2, 7). Nicodemus, a teacher of the law, would surely have been familiar with the concept of physical water representing spiritual purification.

The New Testament, too, uses water as a figure of the new birth. Regeneration is called a “washing” brought about by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God at the moment of salvation (Titus 3:5; cf. Ephesians 5:26; John 13:10). Christians are “washed . . . sanctified . . . justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:11). The “washing” Paul speaks of here is a spiritual one.

Whichever perspective is correct, one thing is certain: Jesus was not teaching that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved. Baptism is nowhere mentioned in the context, nor did Jesus ever imply that we must do anything to inherit eternal life but trust in Him in faith (John 3:16). The emphasis of Jesus' words is on repentance and spiritual renewal—we need the “living water” Jesus later promised the woman at the well (John 4:10). Water baptism is an outward sign that we have given our lives to Jesus, but not a requirement for salvation (Luke 23:40–43).got?

hope this helps !!!

Albion · Aug 21, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
Being “born of the Spirit” is easily interpreted—salvation involves a new life that only the Holy Spirit can produce (cf. 2 Corinthians 3:6). But there are a couple different schools of thought on what Jesus meant when He said, “born of water.” One perspective is that “born of water” refers to physical birth.

No, the passage shows us that Nicodemus was wrong when he suggested that that was the meaning of Christ's words to him.

The other perspective is that “born of water” refers to spiritual cleansing and that Nicodemus would have naturally understood it that way.

That's quite a guess, don't you think? There is nothing in the passage that actually leans in that direction. But, on the other hand, Christ did show a personal example of an actual baptismal ceremony when he allowed John to baptize him in the river Jordan. And, he went on to command his Apostles to convert people and literally baptize them! None of that squares with the strained interpretation you're presenting to us here.

Whichever perspective is correct, one thing is certain: Jesus was not teaching that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved.

"In order to be saved" are the misleading words there. No one is arguing that being doused with water is sufficient for one's salvation.

And you also changed the wording of the Bible passage you referred your readers to. Jesus said that it's by water AND the spirit, not either of them alone.

Dave L · Aug 21, 2021

Albion said:
Some of that analysis is correct, but not all of it.

Jesus does say that it is essential to be born again of water and the spirit. Your approach is to ignore the "water" part and focus entirely upon the spirit.

The Holy Spirit obviously does NOT administer baptisms using water, and we know from the rest of the conversation that the reference is NOT to the act of giving physical birth (which Nicodemus first asked about). Therefore, Jesus is speaking of the importance of both the commitment AND the sacrament.

“For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all countries and bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanness; and from all your idols will I cleanse you. A new heart will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall heed My ordinances and do them. And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you shall be My people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses, and I will call forth the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine on you.” Ezekiel 36:24–29 (AMP)

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;” Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900)

Albion · Aug 21, 2021

Dave L said:
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;” Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900)

Here you have another Bible passage that says just what I was attempting to explain in the previous posts.

com7fy8 · Aug 21, 2021

Jesus is YHWH - you said:
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases

In His allegory, yes Jesus says "it" . . . b-u-t >

This is an allegory. And there seem to be people who believe the Holy Spirit is an "it" . . . not a Person, but some "power" impersonal.

And I do not mean that you are saying this. But I thought I would offer clarification, that the Holy Spirit is a Person of God Himself. And one scripture which possibly can help with this is > Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, the Holy Spirit shares God's own love with us. I do not think an "it" could so deeply share with us, and so personally. And only God can be the Spirit of His own love, I would say.

So, where Jesus calls the Holy Spirit "it" and "wind", that's an allegory, not intended mean the Holy Spirit isn't personal.

But I think there can be a human tendency to make God seem distant and not personal with each of His own children . . . even though our Apostle Paul clearly says the Holy Spirit shares God's own love with His children . . . right "in our hearts".

And so, ones might give "water" an impersonal interpretation, instead of Jesus meaning something like "water" in >

"the washing of water by the word" > in Ephesians 5:26.

And Paul says >

"we who first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12).

So, I see that being born again . . . of God . . . includes "first" trusting in Jesus.

If you come to trust a person, this is very personal and deep and intimate. And being washed by God is very personal and intimate, through and through us. This changes our character, not just our surface.

And I think Jesus means a person needs to be born of God.

Being born of physical water would not be born of God, but of the creature, the created water; so Jesus does not mean that.

But have we come to trust in Jesus, by becoming submissive to Him in His peace, how His Holy Spirit changes us . . . washes and regenerates us so we are submissive to Jesus in His peace with His personal leading?

Jesus is YHWH · Aug 21, 2021

com7fy8 said:
In His allegory, yes Jesus says "it" . . . b-u-t >

This is an allegory. And there seem to be people who believe the Holy Spirit is an "it" . . . not a Person, but some "power" impersonal.

And I do not mean that you are saying this. But I thought I would offer clarification, that the Holy Spirit is a Person of God Himself. And one scripture which possibly can help with this is > Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, the Holy Spirit shares God's own love with us. I do not think an "it" could so deeply share with us, and so personally. And only God can be the Spirit of His own love, I would say.

So, where Jesus calls the Holy Spirit "it" and "wind", that's an allegory, not intended mean the Holy Spirit isn't personal.

But I think there can be a human tendency to make God seem distant and not personal with each of His own children . . . even though our Apostle Paul clearly says the Holy Spirit shares God's own love with His children . . . right "in our hearts".

And so, ones might give "water" an impersonal interpretation, instead of Jesus meaning something like "water" in >

"the washing of water by the word" > in Ephesians 5:26.

And Paul says >

"we who first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12).

So, I see that being born again . . . of God . . . includes "first" trusting in Jesus.

If you come to trust a person, this is very personal and deep and intimate. And being washed by God is very personal and intimate, through and through us. This changes our character, not just our surface.

And I think Jesus means a person needs to be born of God.

Being born of physical water would not be born of God, but of the creature, the created water; so Jesus does not mean that.

But have we come to trust in Jesus, by becoming submissive to Him in His peace, how His Holy Spirit changes us . . . washes and regenerates us so we are submissive to Jesus in His peace with His personal leading?

I agree the H.S. is a Person therefor personal.

Mark Quayle · Aug 21, 2021

Albion said:
No, the passage shows us that Nicodemus was wrong when he suggested that that was the meaning of Christ's words to him.

That's quite a guess, don't you think? There is nothing in the passage that actually leans in that direction. But, on the other hand, Christ did show a personal example of an actual baptismal ceremony when he allowed John to baptize him in the river Jordan. And, he went on to command his Apostles to convert people and literally baptize them! None of that squares with the strained interpretation you're presenting to us here.

"In order to be saved" are the misleading words there. No one is arguing that being doused with water is sufficient for one's salvation.

And you also changed the wording of the Bible passage you referred your readers to. Jesus said that it's by water AND the spirit, not either of them alone.

No, the passage is NOT saying Nicodemus is wrong when he suggested that Jesus was saying that by being born of water is not physical, as Jesus hadn't even said 'born of water' at that point in the conversation. Nicodemus was referring to 'born again'. When Jesus reprimanded him, he used that very fact of original (fleshly) birth that Nicodemus had in mind, to compare/contrast with the spiritual birth —rebirth.

You say, '"In order to be saved" are the misleading words there. No one is arguing that being doused with water is sufficient for one's salvation.' "Sufficient"? No, but it seems you ARE arguing it, as you indicate Jesus is saying that neither alone is sufficient for one's salvation. If you claim that neither —and so, particularly, being born of the Spirit— is sufficient for one's salvation, then you are saying that both are necessary for one's salvation; therefore, water baptism is necessary for one's salvation. You seem to think the work of the Spirit of God in regeneration is not (alone) sufficient for one's salvation. So, if, as you seem to think, the work of the Spirit of God is sufficient for part of regeneration, baptism is sufficient for the rest of it. Thus, you are claiming sufficiency of baptism for rebirth.

In the Greek, and in modern (and ancient) English, we use the word, 'and', to mean, 'even', or at times, or, as in this case it could be, 'so also' —i.e. born of water, so also in the Spirit. One use of the passage shows that when Jesus said, "by water and the Spirit", he was introducing the comparison of 'physical' with 'Spirit'. The passage doesn't mention baptism.

Granted, however, that contextually, John, at least, may have meant 'water baptism' to be Jesus' literal meaning, as he does mention it very soon after Jesus discourse with Nicodemus. But notice too, in John 4, (Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan woman), that he speaks of the 'living water' (i.e. "the water that I give them") which would seem to be referring to the Spirit of God. Also, there and in most other places, physical water baptism is not mentioned as necessary for rebirth.

Albion · Aug 21, 2021

Mark Quayle said:
No, the passage is NOT saying Nicodemus is wrong when he suggested that Jesus was saying that by being born of water is not physical....

Nicodemus didn't suggest that Jesus "was saying that being born of water is not physical."

Mark Quayle · Aug 21, 2021

Albion said:
Nicodemus didn't suggest that Jesus "was saying that being born of water is not physical."

I think that is what I just said. Jesus hadn't even mentioned "being born of water" at the point where Nicodemus interjects with, "How can...". He mentions it in response to what Nicodemus said. It seems that Jesus did so BECAUSE Nicodemus said what he did, in order to present Nicodemus with a picture of being born of the Spirit.

Jesus is YHWH · Aug 21, 2021

Mark Quayle said:
No, the passage is NOT saying Nicodemus is wrong when he suggested that Jesus was saying that by being born of water is not physical, as Jesus hadn't even said 'born of water' at that point in the conversation. Nicodemus was referring to 'born again'. When Jesus reprimanded him, he used that very fact of original (fleshly) birth that Nicodemus had in mind, to compare/contrast with the spiritual birth —rebirth.

You say, '"In order to be saved" are the misleading words there. No one is arguing that being doused with water is sufficient for one's salvation.' "Sufficient"? No, but it seems you ARE arguing it, as you indicate Jesus is saying that neither alone is sufficient for one's salvation. If you claim that neither —and so, particularly, being born of the Spirit— is sufficient for one's salvation, then you are saying that both are necessary for one's salvation; therefore, water baptism is necessary for one's salvation. You seem to think the work of the Spirit of God in regeneration is not sufficient for one's salvation. So, if, as you seem to think, the work of the Spirit of God is sufficient for part of regeneration, baptism is sufficient for the rest of it. Thus, you are claiming sufficiency of baptism for rebirth.

In the Greek, and in modern (and ancient) English, we use the word, 'and', to mean, 'even', or at times, or, as in this case it could be, 'so also' —i.e. born of water, so also in the Spirit. One use of the passage shows that when Jesus said, "by water and the Spirit", he was introducing the comparison of 'physical' with 'Spirit'. The passage doesn't mention baptism.

Granted, however, that contextually, John, at least, may have meant 'water baptism' to be Jesus' literal meaning, as he does mention it very soon after Jesus discourse with Nicodemus. But notice too, in John 4, (Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan woman), that he speaks of the 'living water' (i.e. "the water that I give them") which would seem to be referring to the Spirit of God. Also, there and in most other places, physical water baptism is not mentioned as necessary for rebirth.

Spot on !

Mark Quayle · Aug 21, 2021

Dave L said:
“For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all countries and bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanness; and from all your idols will I cleanse you. A new heart will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall heed My ordinances and do them. And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you shall be My people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses, and I will call forth the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine on you.” Ezekiel 36:24–29 (AMP)

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;” Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900)

As I understand, in Greek, as I said earlier, the word translated 'and' could have been translated, 'even', in many places in the Bible. And in English also, 'and' can mean 'even'; thus, in Titus 3:5 "...by the washing of regeneration, [even the] renewing of the Holy Ghost;"

(Side note, for those who might wonder, re Titus 3:5, when the preposition 'of' is used in the phrase, 'renewing of the Holy Ghost', it does not mean that the Holy Ghost is being renewed, but that the renewing is through, or even from, or by, the Holy Ghost. (Prepositions are tenuous in probably every language; but the Greek "διὰ" is plainly not saying the Spirit is the recipient of the regeneration.))

CatsRule2020 · Aug 21, 2021

Albion said:
Here you have another Bible passage that says just what I was attempting to explain in the previous posts.

Some Christians have been taught that water baptism does the washing of regeneration but the Holy Spirit Himself does the renewing of one's spirit.

Mark Quayle · Aug 21, 2021

CatsRule2020 said:
Some Christians have been taught that water baptism does the washing of regeneration but the Holy Spirit Himself does the renewing of one's spirit.

I can see a difference in the latter, because what you show here, is the person's spirit being referenced as renewed, though still, 'by' the Spirit of God, but what's the grammatical difference as far as what is being done? Considering the meaning of the words, and the many Biblical references to the subject, what is the difference between, 'washing of regeneration', and, 'renewing of one's spirit' as being done by the Spirit of God?

Guojing · Aug 21, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
John 3:3-10
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely, they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

So let’s go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- nowhere in this passage does it say that a man chooses to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in both cases of birth God is the Active One and the one who is birthed is passive in the process.

Summary: just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so too does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again)

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Regeneration-born again has to do with the wind in the context and parallels the new birth in that process.

This topic is specifically the New Birth, Born Again of the Spirit which is compared to the Wind and how it operates as Jesus the Master Teacher illustrated in John 3 to Nicodemus.

Here are a couple of questions to ponder from the text.

1- Do you control or have any influence over the wind?
2- Can you call the wind?

Neither can a person call Gods Spirit in the new birth as it’s an Act of GOD. See John 1:13. Born again by God.

The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 off the top of my head reading through the passage:

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom

hope this helps !!!

You can understand John's specific emphasis on being born again, as inextricably linked to Israel's relationship with God.

Their father, Abraham, was barren. Naturally, at his ripe old age, he could no longer have children.

God had to supernaturally intervene in his life to enable him to give birth to Issac.

Thru Issac, thru Jacob, thru his 12 sons, the nation literally came into existence.

Exodus 4:22 had a very insightful verse about this

And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

This was reinforced in Jeremiah 31:9

9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

God considered Israel his first born son. They literally became a nation when God supernaturally rescued them from Egypt, separating the waters in the ocean until all of them literally cross over the water in dry land.

But as we all know, Israel broke their covenant of Law that was given at Mount Sinai. They killed or ignored all the prophets that God repeatedly sent to them when they were separated into 2 kingdoms and went into captivity under Babylon, and then under Persia.

Jesus used the parable of the tenants, one of my favorite parables to understand his first coming on Earth to Israel, in all 3 synoptic gospels. (Matthew 21:33-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19) to illustrate this.

When Jesus and the 12 were preaching from Matt-John, they need to repent of rejecting God their Father in the OT, and believe in his Son is their promised King and Messiah, as foretold by their prophets.

God had mercy on them even when they killed his prophets (e.g. 2 Chronicles 24:20-22; Jeremiah 26:20-30; cf. Luke 13:34; Acts 7:52)., and is now sending his very own Son to Israel, to do a final persuasion to Israel to repent and believe in him.

If they do, as Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3, Israel will be born again.

Saint Steven · Aug 22, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
John 3:3-10
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

In re-reading this scripture, the thing that stood out to me as a point of interest, was the phrase "no one can see the kingdom of God".

It seems the standard interpretation is that this is a reference to the afterlife, or more specifically, heaven. As in, no one will see (enter) heaven unless they are born again.

But maybe that is not what Jesus is saying here. At times he made reference to "the kingdom of God" being here. And usually to get those listening to him to "see" it.

Jesus is YHWH · Aug 22, 2021

Saint Steven said:
In re-reading this scripture, the thing that stood out to me as a point of interest, was the phrase "no one can see the kingdom of God".

It seems the standard interpretation is that this is a reference to the afterlife, or more specifically, heaven. As in, no one will see (enter) heaven unless they are born again.

But maybe that is not what Jesus is saying here. At times he made reference to "the kingdom of God" being here. And usually to get those listening to him to "see" it.

Jesus uses them interchangeably below and they are synonymous terms.

Matthew 19:23-26
23 And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?”26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Saint Steven · Aug 22, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
Jesus uses them interchangeably below and they are synonymous terms.

Matthew 19:23-26
23 And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?”26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Thanks.
These scriptures seem to indicate a present kingdom here.

Matthew 12:28 NRSV
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

Matthew 11:12 NRSV
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mr. M · Aug 22, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
1- Do you control or have any influence over the wind?
2- Can you call the wind?

Who is this man Jesus, whom the wind and rain obeys Him?
If it is the will of the Father, a man can call upon nature as did the Son.
James 5:
17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain;
and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.

Jesus is YHWH said:
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)

Jesus is YHWH said:
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Here is a description of a spirit born from above. The person, not the wind. Philip to Azotus?

Jesus teaching on the New Birth, Born Again !

my Lord and my God !

Facilitator

my Lord and my God !

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

my Lord and my God !

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Facilitator

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

my Lord and my God !

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Active Member

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

my Lord and my God !

You can call me Steve

Well-Known Member

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