Jesus teaching on the New Birth, Born Again !

[fhansen]

John 3:3-10
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely, they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?


So let’s go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- nowhere in this passage does it say that a man chooses to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in both cases of birth God is the Active One and the one who is birthed is passive in the process.

Summary: just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so too does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again)

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Regeneration-born again has to do with the wind in the context and parallels the new birth in that process.

This topic is specifically the New Birth, Born Again of the Spirit which is compared to the Wind and how it operates as Jesus the Master Teacher illustrated in John 3 to Nicodemus.

Here are a couple of questions to ponder from the text.

1- Do you control or have any influence over the wind?
2- Can you call the wind?

Neither can a person call Gods Spirit in the new birth as it’s an Act of GOD. See John 1:13. Born again by God.


The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 off the top of my head reading through the passage:

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom

hope this helps !!!

Jesus tells us that He knocks at our door and if we open it He'll come in and dwell with us. And that we must remain in Him after that. One particaptes in whether or not they'll be regenernated even though regeneration, itself, is totally a work of God's. It's a jourrney for man, and not a one-time event only. There's no end to the exent that one can be made just, regenerated. And we can always refuse and reject that work.

 

[Fidelibus]

What is true to you need not be true to others and vice versa. That is what imperfect knowledge means.

I see it very differently. What I see is how the doctrine of Sola Scriptura produces bad fruit, namely, division and disunity, among the many different Protestant and non-Denominatiol churches and sects. Something you have wittingly or unwittingly shown in our most recent discussions.

You see Guojing, if the doctrine of Sola Scriptura were true, then it should be expected that Protestants and non-Denominational bible only believing Christians would all be in agreement in terms of doctrine, as the Bible could not simultaneously teach contradictory beliefs. And yet the reality is that there are literally thousands of Protestant and non-Denominational bible alone churches and sects and denominations, each of which claims to have the Bible as its only guide, each of which claims to be preaching the truth, yet each of which teaches something different from the others. (like the nature of baptism or whether Christians can lose their salvation). This points to a defective method of discerning what it is God has revealed, not merely to defective discerners.

I will leave you a passage from the Gospel of St. John to ponder on.

“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. (John 17:20-23).

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Butch5]

I see. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome!

 

[Guojing]

I see it very differently. What I see is how the doctrine of Sola Scriptura produces bad fruit, namely, division and disunity, among the many different Protestant and non-Denominatiol churches and sects. Something you have wittingly or unwittingly shown in our most recent discussions.

You see Guojing, if the doctrine of Sola Scriptura were true, then it should be expected that Protestants and non-Denominational bible only believing Christians would all be in agreement in terms of doctrine, as the Bible could not simultaneously teach contradictory beliefs. And yet the reality is that there are literally thousands of Protestant and non-Denominational bible alone churches and sects and denominations, each of which claims to have the Bible as its only guide, each of which claims to be preaching the truth, yet each of which teaches something different from the others. (like the nature of baptism or whether Christians can lose their salvation). This points to a defective method of discerning what it is God has revealed, not merely to defective discerners.

I will leave you a passage from the Gospel of St. John to ponder on.

“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. (John 17:20-23).

Have a Blessed Day!

I don't see it as disunity. Most Protestant churches agree and take their salvation doctrine from the apostle Paul, found in 1 Cor 15:1-4.

What they mostly differ is after salvation, what doctrine should the Christian take. But as I said, that is not that bad, using my analogy from the book of Exodus.

But I understand you are a Catholic, if that is the case, then to me, its unfortunate that you believe that salvation is faith + works. But I understand that is currently truth for you.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Jesus tells us that He knocks at our door and if we open it He'll come in and dwell with us. And that we must remain in Him after that. One particaptes in whether or not they'll be regenernated even though regeneration, itself, is totally a work of God's. It's a jourrney for man, and not a one-time event only. There's no end to the exent that one can be made just, regenerated. And we can always refuse and reject that work.

Its not a one time event and people are born again several times ?

 

[fhansen]

Its not a one time event and people are born again several times ?

The concept of being born again, as being some definitive, unchangeble status before God, is misunderstood and overemphasized by some. Fallen man is characterized as being dead, in need of being rasied, asleep, needing to be awoken, lost, needing to be found, and sick, in need of being cured. It all points to reconciliation with God and the entering of a communion with Him that man was made for based on faith leading to hope, and, most importantly, love.

But we must remain in Him, we must stay faithful to the relationship, born out by the way we live our lives. At justification one is made just: forgiven, washed, cleansed, made new creations with those virtues of faith (more), hope, and love as we live by the Spirit indwelling us now. With genuine faith that change is made and our status before God is heaven-worthy. But we can compromise this justified status by returning to a life of sin, by not living by the Spirit, by not living out and expressing those gifts-by praticing injustice IOW. Depending on the time and with the opportunities, revelation/knowledge, and grace given we work out our salvation with He who works in us.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The concept of being born again, as being some definitive, unchangeble status before God, is misunderstood and overemphasized by some. Fallen man is characterized as being dead, in need of being rasied, asleep, needing to be awoken, lost, needing to be found, and sick, in need of being cured. It all points to reconciliation with God and the entering of a communion with Him that man was made for based on faith leading to hope, and, most importantly, love.

But we must remain in Him, we must stay faithful to the relationship, born out by the way we live our lives. At justification one is made just: forgiven, washed, cleansed, made new creations, those virtues of faith (more), hope, and love as we live by the Spirit indwelling us now. With genuine faith that change is made and our status before God is heaven-worthy. But we can compromise this justified status by returning to a life of sin, by not living by the Spirit, by not living out and expressing those gifts-by praticing injustice IOW. Depending on the time and with the oppotunities, revelation/knowledge, and grace given we work out our salvation with He who works in us.

Just as we are physically born once we are spiritually born once its a realty simple concept to understand. Each birth is time stamped with a date and time.

hope this helps !!!

 

[fhansen]

Just as we are physically born once we are spiritually born once its a realty simple concept to understand. Each birth is time stamped with a date and time.

hope this helps !!!

And we can return to death; we can die again just as Adam did originally even as he began in a justifed state of being.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

And we can return to death; we can die again just as Adam did originally even as he began in a justifed state of being.

And death has nothing to do with birth. They are opposites.

 

[fhansen]

And death has nothing to do with birth. They are opposites.

Yes

 

[JulieB67]

I wouldn't stop with verse 10. The subject doesn't really end until verse 13 which has Christ basically reiterating what he stated from the beginning.

He starts with,

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Born again is the Greek word 509 anothen -From above, from the first, again, from the beginning.

We have to be born from above and this correlates with,

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

So this is is kind of a 2nd birth if you will which is a physical one. And that's what Nicodemus doesn't understand. It's God that forms us in the womb. (Jeremiah is a good reference)

So he's basically saying we have to have a physical birth (water) and then a spiritual one.

Nicodemus clearly doesn't understand at this point. Which is why Christ states that if you can't understand earthly things how will you understand Heavenly things.

John 3:11 "Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness."

John 3:12 "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"

Verse 13 is reiterating what Christ said at the beginning. No man can ascend up to heaven but he that came down from Heaven. Even the Son of man which is in heaven. You have to be born from above first. And Christ was born from above as well in the spirit of God.
But we all have to be born "from" above. It clearly states "even" the Son of man. Which is the Greek word 3779 - houtos" to what proceeds or follows after that, for all that, likewise, in like manner".
So we clearly aren't talking only about Christ. He states unless a man be born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of Heaven. This is why God says he chose some before the foundation of the world, how he knew Jeremiah and so on. There's a deeper study into this but that's what born again means, born from above, born from the beginning. In a deeper study, we have to ask ourselves, how did God know us from the beginning?

But going back, when we put these two verses together, they are basically stating the same thing. Christ stating the fact and reiterating it.


John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven."