What are the reasons behind a person wrongfully rejecting the Trinity? (Trinity Christians Only)

R7-12 said:

This question is problematic.

Why would a person, with reason and/or motivation, wrongfully reject anything if it's believed to be true? If it's believed to be not true, then rejecting it would not be wrongful, as far as they see it.

It almost comes across as though anyone who questions the validity of the doctrine of the Trinity has wrongful reasons and motivations. Perhaps that was not intended - if so, I grant you that.

How about considering, "What are the motivations or reasons behind a person rightfully rejecting the Trinity?"

That should elicit a few interesting responses, but please, let's not fight.

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I don’t buy it. God is going to hold people accountable for not worshiping Him in the correct way as revealed in Scripture. I believe folks who reject the Trinity are not accepting the whole counsel of God’s Word for their own personal reasons. I don’t believe a person rejects the Trinity because it is what they believe Scripture says. Ignorance only goes so far. A person who rejects the Trinity has to ignore 1 John 5:7, and other verses. It could be that they are lazy and they do not care to search out the matter themselves because they are cozy at their church or it could be that they simply do not understand the Trinity and it sounds illogical to them. There could be many reasons why they reject the Trinity and it has nothing to do with what the Bible says because the Word teaches it clearly. To reject the Trinity is to go against the clear teaching of God’s Word.

.Jeremiah. said:

So, can you please explain to me how the Lord gave you an understanding of the trinity, and what your understanding is exactly?

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How did the Lord give me the understanding of the Trinity?

Well, it was a long time ago in a place far far away from where I live now. I am not sure exactly the first point in my life when I believed the Trinity. If my memory serves me correctly: My first memory of the Trinity was hearing it at church. But I also knew about the Trinity through Chick Publications because of their tracts, as well. For I was saved by a one of their tracts called, “This Was Your Life” back in 1992. I later came to discuss the Trinity in depth on various Christian forums over the past 10 years and my study of the truth of the Trinity only strengthened when I dug deeper into God’s Word (defending it). So I did not just follow blindly follow the crowd what I was originally taught, but I confirmed such a truth with the Word like a good Berean should do.

What is my understanding of the Trinity?

My understanding of the Trinity (i.e. Godhead - KJB) is that the Lord our God is one God and yet He also exists as three distinct persons (i.e. the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost). Basically God is one being or entity and yet He is three persons. He is three and yet one (Which is what 1 John 5:7 says in my Bible). Yes, I am aware of the doubters on 1 John 5:7. But I believe it by faith like I believe John 3:16 by faith.


But there is a trail of historical evidence for 1 John 5:7, though.
Here it is:


Source:
D. W. Daniels.

You said:

I have had a great interest in getting these answers from people, ever since I heard of the trinity. One never knows what someone is thinking unless one asks.

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The Trinity

The Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

Here are a couple of quick points:


The Trinity is told to us in one verse in the King James Bible.

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” (1 John 5:7 KJB).

While I use Modern Translations to update the 1600’s English in the King James Bible, you have to be careful with Modern Translations because they also teach a lot of false doctrine.

See this CF thread here to learn more.

Anyways, 1 John 5:7 is removed in most Modern Translations. Just Google “the origin of Arianism” (Anti-Trinitarianism) and you will see that it originates from Alexandria, Egypt. Yet, scholars testify that the Critical Text of where most Modern Translations come from is from Alexandria, Egypt. So surely it is not a coincidence that this verse was removed so as to attack the Trinity because the gnostics did not believe in it in Alexandria, Egypt.

If you know anything about Egypt in the Bible, it is generally regarded in a negative way within the Scriptures.

Romans 1:20 also says,
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Meaning, even nature itself declares the Godhead (or the Trinity).

Atoms = Nucleus, Protons, Electrons.
Water Molecules = Hydrogen Atom, Hydrogen Atom, Oxygen Atom.
Man Made in God's Image = Physical Body, Spirit Body, Soul.

Although the word "Trinity" is not found within the Scriptures, the word "Godhead" is used instead (Acts of the Apostles 17:29) (Romans 1:20) (Colossians 2:9).

Again, Modern Translations attempt to change the word “Godhead” in the King James Bible to mean something else like “divine nature” etc.; But Godhead is the correct translation and it synonymous with Trinity.

Trinity | Definition, Theology, & History

If you are interested, I could keep going if you like.

May God bless you this fine evening.

R7-12 said:

I don’t buy it either. God is going to hold people accountable for not worshiping Him in the correct way as revealed in Scripture. I believe folks who accept the Trinity are not accepting the whole counsel of God’s Word for their own personal reasons. I don’t believe a person accepts the Trinity because it is what they believe Scripture says. Ignorance only goes so far. A person who accepts the Trinity has to ignore John 17:3, and other verses. It could be that they are lazy and they do not care to search out the matter themselves because they are cozy at their church or it could be that they simply do not understand the Only Truly God and it sounds illogical to them. There could be many reasons why they accept the Trinity and it has nothing to do with what the Bible says because the Word clearly doesn’t teach it. To accept the Trinity is to go against the clear teaching of God’s Word.

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Sorry, I don’t believe you. What do you do with 1 John 5:7? What do you do with the beginning of the gospel of John that says that the Word WAS God and the Word was WITH God (John 1:1)? What do you do with Genesis 1:26 where God says, let US make man in OUR image, and OUR likeness? What do you do with Revelation 1:8 that says that Jesus is the beginning and the end which matches up with Isaiah 44:6 that says the same a similar thing and then adds that there is no God beside Him? What do you do with Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4 that says that the Holy Spirit is God? What do you do with the appearances of all three persons of the Trinity at Christ’s baptism (with Christ being the Son obviously)?

As for John 17:3: I read it like this:

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee [you, Father,] the only true God [the Godhead - which includes the Holy Spirit], and Jesus Christ [the Son or the Word], whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3).

Side Note:

The words in brackets in blue is my commentary to the text.

dzheremi said:

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I just realized what subforum this is in, and now I feel dirty. I'll never understand how this section gets to be here while the Non-Christian religions subforum gets shut down because it was being used to propagate non-Christian views. Anti-Trinitarianism is the worst non-Christian view there is, as it is explicitly against the revelation of God as He has chosen to be manifest to us, as has been affirmed for 2,000 years across the entire world. The holy St. Ignatius of Antioch (called Theophorus in Greek, or Nurono in Syriac; "light-bearer") openly calls Christ our God in his epistles, composed sometime shortly before his death in c. 108 AD. This is from his epistle to the Ephesians:

But some most worthless persons are in the habit of carrying about the name in wicked guile, while yet they practice things unworthy of God, and hold opinions contrary to the doctrine of Christ, to their own destruction, and that of those who give credit to them, whom you must avoid as ye would wild beasts. For the righteous man who avoids them is saved for ever; but the destruction of the ungodly is sudden, and a subject of rejoicing. For they are dumb dogs, that cannot bark, raving mad, and biting secretly, against whom ye must be on your guard, since they labor under an incurable disease. But our Physician is the only true God, the unbegotten and unapproachable, the Lord of all, the Father and Begetter of the only-begotten Son. We have also as a Physician the Lord our God, Jesus the Christ, the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For the Word was made flesh. Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passible body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.
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Those who set the Church against itself, and of course also the Word against the word (and I can see our brothers and sisters have already gone some ways into the scriptural backing of Trinitarian belief), are preaching poison. Do you expect to be given some pride of place for your ability to count to one as though the rest of us cannot, just as you insanely give a pride of place to the Jews, Ebionites, and others who could not see the Lord when He was in the flesh before them? The right-hand thief on the cross knew better, and he had no such learned theological opinion either way, so it would be better for you to think twice about who is really pushing some kind of detached academic theology or philosophical sophistry, as seems to be given as a reason for the rejection of the Holy Trinity in certain posts in this thread.

Mor Ignatius knows more than any of us, and it's not because he happened to use certain words, as helpful as that might be to show what theology is really a later invention. It's because of that 'light-bearing' thing... (cf. John 1:9)

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I believe a person can be saved without knowing about the Trinity, but once that truth is revealed to them by God’s Word, they cannot reject such a truth.

sandman said:

1John 5:7&8 KJV

5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


These verses are not in any Greek MMS prior to the 14th century

These words were added ↓

5:7 in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth


The correct rendering for these verses are as follows for KJV:

5:7 For there are three that bear record

5:8 the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


The NIV has it as follows

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that testify:

1Jo 5:8 the[fn] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Click on verse 8 and click on [fn] to verify.

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Just Google “the origin of Arianism” (Anti-Trinitarianism) and you will see that it originates from Alexandria, Egypt. Yet, scholars testify that the Critical Text of where most Modern Translations come from is from Alexandria, Egypt. So surely it is not a coincidence that this verse was removed so as to attack the Trinity because the gnostics did not believe in it in Alexandria, Egypt.

If you know anything about Egypt in the Bible, it is generally regarded in a negative way within the Scriptures.

To top it off, see my post #26 for historical trail of evidence for 1 John 5:7.

Anyways, Modern Translations attack the deity of Christ, they make Jesus appear to sin, they add the devil’s name in place our Lord’s, and many, many, AND MANY MORE problems of the like.

Besides, the NIV is considered one of the worst translations even by the Modern Translationists or the OAO (Original Autograph Only) folk.

Folks are getting away from the Bible that existed as the final Word of authority alone for hundreds of years. Anyways, you can learn more at this thread here:

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today

dzheremi said:

Rejection of the Holy Trinity based on the status of the Johannine comma is incredibly weak.

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That’s because you are looking at the wrong manuscripts. Most today accept the watered down neutered Critical Text (Which is where most of your Modern Translations come from). Alexandria Egypt is where the Critical Text comes from. It also just so happens to be the birthplace of Arianism. So yeah. Not a coincidence that 1 John 5:7 was removed. Doesn’t take a detective to figure it out that the Arian guy did not like that in the Bible and so they removed it. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg of the problems of the Critical Text.

You can learn more in this thread here:

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today

You said:

The Johannine comma has never been found in Coptic, Syriac, or Ethiopian bibles, and yet these three peoples and their churches are all very much strongly Trinitarian believers.

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We don’t have a time machine to really know why they were strong Trinitarian believers despite their watered down version of the Scriptures. What I do know is that history teaches that 1 John 5:7 can be traced through history all the way to 200AD. See my post #26.

Pavel Mosko said:

Well I think the reason is mindset. Trinitarianism is a very sophisticated position, where you consider the ramifications of various scriptures especially in regards to Christ, and to the lesser degree the Holy Spirit.

But it is very easy to be an Arian. It is very easy to get the wrong idea about things, especially scriptures spoken of Jesus during his Earthly ministry before his crucifixion. If you have a proof text mentality, their are a lot of scriptures you can quote to insinuate an Arian view of Jesus, or some other kind of sole monarchy of God the Father. The verse that Jesus "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" is one such verse at least in English translations. It is suppose to be about Jesus gladly taking on the role of a servant, and putting aside his Godly privilege's for the sake of his earthly mission etc. But it can easily sound to someone like what Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus didn't do that because he knew he was not equal with the Father, but unlike Lucifer was humble and obedient.


In studying Trinitarianism recently learned from watching some William Lane Craig videos on You-tube that apparently one of the big early factors that made the case were the pronouns used to describe the Godhead. They suggested that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were part of the same being and thus they had to be "of the same substance" or being. While the Arians inserted their interpretation into the text believing that they metaphorically are "One" aka on the same side etc. And the Son and Holy Spirit are of a similar substance but not quite the same as the father. They are created beings, that are not eternal etc.

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In my experience, it seems like when really good verses I presented to the Arian about the Trinity it is rejected. They have their proof texts that they cling to, but they have to ignore the really good verses in order to make their proof texts work. There is a reason for this personally in why they do this.

It could be lack of connecting with friends they know, or it could be laziness in not studying the Word, or it could be they do not understand the Trinity, or they think the Bible should be more clear about it in order for it to be true, etc.

However, I believe if one is a truth seeker and or a good Berean, they will know of the truth of the Trinity.

dzheremi said:

Is it too simple-minded to answer the OP by saying the devil? Devils are behind the whispers that bring a person from the worship of the One true God as He has revealed Himself to us in the uncreated and indivisible Holy Trinity, for whatever surface reasons they give (e.g., it's not explicitly found in scripture). That is the reason for Arianism, Ebionism, monadism, polytheism, tritheism, Sabellianism, Mohammedanism, Mormonism, etc., as that is the source of all heresies. Heresies are birthed in hell from the loins of Satan.

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I believe the devil is in part to blame, but the human does have to listen to the lie.

R7-12 said:

Bible Highlighter, there is no point debating with someone whose mind is made up and will not consider anything other than what they already believe. Every scripture given as evidence for or against something will be countered by other scriptures given as evidence for or against. So the exercise under those conditions is futile.

However, I will go over John 17:3 because it was cited.

“But this is age-abiding life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent” (Jn. 17:3; RNT).

Christ begins in this verse by stating that his next statement leads to life-everlasting,

– That they (the disciples, the called and chosen of God) may come to know YOU (the one whom Christ is praying to – his God and Father), THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and, in addition to this, the other thing that leads to life-everlasting is to know Jesus Christ who was sent by THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

Jesus Christ clearly stated that there is only one True God and he identified Him when he said in his prayer, “You” the one whom his prayer was directed to. There can be no other as the word only precludes there being any other.

But notice the word structure Christ used here,

“But this is age-abiding life, that they may know you, the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom You sent”

The use of the word “and” after identifying who the Only True God is, clearly means that in addition to the Only True God, our Heavenly Father, we must also know the individual whom He sent – Jesus Christ.

Thus, Christ identified two separate beings in his prayer,
1) The Only True God, the Father of all.
2) Jesus Christ who was sent by the Only True God, his Father.

This means that Jesus Christ also has a God and Father, just as we all do.

One was sent by the other, clearly two different individuals, the one sending having authority to send the other. This means they are not co-equal as the doctrine of the trinity demands.

Receiving everlasting life depends upon knowing (correctly) both of these individuals – so says the Bible.

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Lets say John 17:3 is referring to the Father as the only true God. I will admit that such is a possibility. But Jesus said He is one with the Father and 1 Timothy 3:16 says God was manifest in the flesh. The beginning of the gospel of John says: The Word WAS GOD and the Word was WITH God (John 1:1). John 1:14 says the Word was made flesh. This is Jesus. Jesus is God. Besides, 1 John 5:20 says something similar of Jesus (like John 17:3 says of what you believe is a reference to the Father).

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20).

So you have to look at the whole counsel of God’s Word and not isolate those verses you want to see from your own slanted pointed of view.