Is it everyone's calling?

Paidiske said:

How do you mean?

I am thinking of things like the ending of apartheid, making sex discrimination illegal, international conventions against torture, and so on. These are matters of historical fact.

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I'm thinking more about the current problems: crime, immigration, race relations, the economy, the pandemic, climate change, education, and the social and political structures involved.

Ok, so any of those might benefit from social justice activism, and it'd be fine to discuss possible approaches here.

But if you want to state there are no problems of injustice involved, then that probably belongs in a different forum.

Paidiske said:

Ok, so any of those might benefit from social justice activism, and it'd be fine to discuss possible approaches here.

But if you want to state there are no problems of injustice involved, then that probably belongs in a different forum.

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The greatest injustice is what people do to themselves, not what others do to them. "Social justice" is often just a way to blame others for one's misfortunes, and to seek recompense.

ChicanaRose said:

How would you respond to someone who says,

"Social justice is not my calling"?

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Sounds like someone who feels rather strongly that social justice is not an aspiration, does not believe in the validity of efforts at welfare or philanthropy, nor desires a change in society.

That's fodder for a good debate. . .so

Legally, there is no such thing as "social justice."

It's all just justice, protection of Constitutional rights, our lives/bodies and our personal property.

Once again, with feeling: "This forum is not the place to challenge or debate the validity of efforts at welfare or philanthropy, social justice as an aspiration, or the desire for change in society."

And those who are excluded from participation? Those who are denied an education, those who are not able to access employment, those with disabilities?

A level playing field as a starting point is a complete fiction.

Paidiske said:

And those who are excluded from participation? Those who are denied an education, those who are not able to access employment, those with disabilities?

A level playing field as a starting point is a complete fiction.

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Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. (Isaiah 40:4)

Every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill made low. The crooked roads shall become straight, the rough ways smooth. (Luke 3:5)

Good Point. The words "shall be" illustrates how this is not the way it is.

Michael Collum said:

Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. (Isaiah 40:4)
Every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill made low. The crooked roads shall become straight, the rough ways smooth. (Luke 3:5)
The words "shall be" illustrates how this is not the way it is.

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And those who are unable are assisted.

Clare73 said:

And those who are unable are assisted.

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This concept may be why there is any social justice at all.

Michael Collum said:

This concept may be why there is any social justice at all.

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But still justice owes no one well-being, it owes only what is due, what one has earned.

Well-being is not owed in justice, it is a choice of society to provide.

Clare73 said:

But still justice owes no one well-being, it owes only what is due, what one has earned.

Well-being is not owed in justice, it is a choice of society to provide.

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In your next read through of the first five books of the bible, pay attention particularly to the allowances made for the poor and needy.

Many of these allowances were uncommon or not done at all in the surrounding nations.

So it's more than a choice of society, since God seems to choose this also.

Of course wellbeing (or at least the means to wellbeing), and dignity, and agency, are owed. That is why we talk about human rights. That is justice.

Michael Collum said:

In your next read through of the first five books of the bible, pay attention particularly to the allowances made for the poor and needy.

Many of these allowances were uncommon or not done at all in the surrounding nations.

So it's more than a choice of society, since God seems to choose this also.

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Agreed. . .but it is not based on justice.

A society based on justice alone would be pretty lean.
For justice is only about what is due, only about what one has earned.
That doesn't make well-being a responsibility of justice.
There is no "social" justice, there is only justice, and there is social welfare.
But only justice is owed by society, only justice is a right.

The U.S. Bill of Rights are not a matter of justice.
They are a matter of guaranteed freedom of actions.

Clare73 said:

Agreed. . .but it is not based on justice.

A society based on justice alone would be pretty lean.

But that doesn't make well-being a responsibility of justice.
There is no "social" justice, there is only justice.

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The biblical context of the word justice paints a different picture.

H6666 - ṣᵊḏāqâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

The word for justice is the same as righteousness, this word is used in the famous verse about Abraham having faith in God and it being counted as righteousness.

This becomes important because the dialogue surrounding the phrase "faith without works is dead" is all about social justice.

Agreed. The Biblical vision of justice is one where the strong and powerful use their resources for the common good, especially of those who are without strength and power.

Michael Collum said:

The biblical context of the word justice paints a different picture.
H6666 - ṣᵊḏāqâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)
The word for justice is the same as righteousness, this word is used in the famous verse about Abraham having faith in God and it being counted as righteousness.

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This becomes important because the dialogue surrounding the phrase "faith without works is dead" is all about social justice.

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Contrare.

Worship, prayer, repentance, not taking God's name in vain, not worshiping wealth and pleasure, financial support of your pastor, the marriage relationship, etc. are all faith's works, but they are not about social justice.

Clare73 said:

Contrare.

Worship, prayer, repentance, taking God's name in vain, not worshiping wealth and pleasure, financial support of your pastor, the marriage relationship, etc. are all faith's works, but they are not about social justice.

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But that's not what James' letter talks about.

Michael Collum said:

But that's not what James' letter talks about.

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They are still works of faith.

Paul talks about them, as does Hebrews:

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

Clare73 said:

They are still works of faith.

Paul talks about them.

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Nope, reading your own narrative into scripture is eisegesis.

The church does this quite often, for some reason doesn't want to help the poor. For some reason wants nothing to do with God. For whatsoever you have done to the least of these, you have also done unto God.

Michael Collum said:

Nope, reading your own narrative into scripture is eisegesis.

The church does this quite often, for some reason doesn't want to help the poor. For some reason wants nothing to do with God. For whatsoever you have done to the least of these, you have also done unto God.

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What is your bias against the body of Christ?

The above do not exclude what I posted.

Why are you so opposed to other parts of the NT. . .eisegesis?
"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

Not all works of faith involve society, some do not.

I guess you aren't familiar with Paul's letters.