Problem of Sola Scriptura

Valletta

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Where did you look it up? Where did you get your understanding? At least if I knew that, we could be on the same page.
The history of sola scriptura is from the Quran. William of Ockham was the major proponent, Ockham was taken by the teachings of an Arab theologian who taught that the Quran was the only revealed Word of God. Ockham adapted it to Christianity in the 14th century.
 
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DamianWarS

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Hello you and this is the case of the problem with sola scriptura.


Please be kind enough to read everything before posting.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 every Writing [is] God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that [is] in righteousness,​

17 that the man of God may be fitted -- for every good work having been completed.​

This is a verse people will use and it is the only verse that they can use to make Sola Scriptura work. Now as someone who believes in the bible; it is agreed by with me that this verse above is true. Though however it does not mention that the scripture is a 'LAW' book that has to be enforced in a persons life. You most certainly can share with someone that is all fine, but to make the scripture - all of it - as a 'LAWbook' is definitively wrong.

Do you know why? The reason to use scripture alone is a fine way to kill people. You can kill them from faith in God if you are not careful.

Did you know that? The scriptures are like a doubled bladed sword, and if untrained properly you can do damage not only to yourself but you can also do damage to other people.

Let's take a look at two more scriptures to prove my own case here of the problem with Sola Scriptura and living by the scriptures alone, as side from doing damage to yourself, and to others.

2 Corinthians 3:4-6
4 and such trust we have through the Christ toward God,

5 not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything, as of ourselves, but our sufficiency [is] of God,

6 who also made us sufficient [to be] ministrants of a new covenant, not of letter, but of spirit; for the letter doth kill, and the spirit doth make alive.​

Did you know that is the as believers our sufficiency is of God, and not of ourselves? Read verse 5.

In verse 6 it goes on to suggest that believers are ministrants of a new covenant.

Also in verse 6: Not of the letter.

Not of the letter? What does that mean? To me it is a warning that the new covenant is not like the old covenant. The new covenant is new and can not be mixed with the old covenant otherwise there is a huge danger in that mix of hurting yourself and others by doing so.

Still going here in verse 6 you see Paul goes on to tell the Corinthians here in his second letter that; the sufficient to be ministrants; is of the Spirit.

The letter doth kill; but the spirit make alive.

Did you know that you can use the bible as a legalistic tool that if handled unproperly can do damage to you, and your spiritual welfare?

Be careful who you listen to out there; for there is a warning in the bible that have been made known by even the Apostle Paul himself about mixing the letter, and the spirit together that can kill your own spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:17


17 And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty;


Galatians 5:1


5 In the freedom, then, with which Christ did make you free -- stand ye, and be not held fast again by a yoke of servitude;

Remember this friend. There is freedom in Christ... relax and rejoice to the Father in heaven for what the Lord Jesus Christ - or Lord Yeshua the Anointed One has done for all of mankind, by coming, dying, being buried, and being raised again by the Father in which we too by dying with Christ are raised up in walking in newness of life being raised back up with the Anointed One.

Be careful of what man may teach, or the doctrines they may hold on to just think for yourself, you are allowed to have freedom of thought, expression, opinions. Am a big believer that people are allowed to have freedom.

Ask yourself this question:

Would you desire for anyone to take away your own freedom in Christ if you live by the spirit?


May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you, the love of God, and the fellowship of the holy spirit.
Sola scriptura is a response to the corruption of the church and works in a post-reformation era. Verses like 2 Tim 3:16 are not a contradiction because Sola scriptura was never meant to be used during the development of the church in the 1st century (they had apostles for that) and was always meant to be used to keep the developed church in check well after things like the Canon was established. Sola scriptura attempts to audit church doctrine and spell out where our values should be kept.
 
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SuperCow

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...They may say, “Thou shall not kill.” There are exceptions in the Bible, so there are brutal murders and executions to this day. They say, “You shall not commit adultery.” Yet divorce is a legal scriptural way to leave your spouse and couple with another. One scripture opposes another scripture. They can not both be right. Fornication is forbidden in the Bible, and rightly so, yet they ignore it as there was sexual immorality in the stories about patriarchs in the Bible. King David arraigned for one of his soldiers to die in battle in order to steal his wife. Two commandments broken there. King David was praised by the people.

Technically, it should be written "You shall not murder", which is different from kill otherwise capital punishment and war in the Old Testament would have been forbidden. The Bible explicitly states adultery as grounds for divorce. And Old Testament polygamy was not technically adultery or breaking a law, though it is clearly frowned upon in the New Testament. And for any patriarch before Moses, the law did not exist yet.

King David was praised by the people, but nobody is perfect. David was severely punished for his crime, even though his repentance spared him immediate death. Amnon's rape-incest-death by Absalom and his subsequent rebellion were probably all seeded by this incident, besides the grief of the child (who would not have existed if not for his sin) dying. And furthermore, it was immortalized in scripture for all time as a major failure of his kingship.
 
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Hammster

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The history of sola scriptura is from the Quran. William of Ockham was the major proponent, Ockham was taken by the teachings of an Arab theologian who taught that the Quran was the only revealed Word of God. Ockham adapted it to Christianity in the 14th century.
Lol. That’s funny.
 
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Albion

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The history of sola scriptura is from the Quran. William of Ockham was the major proponent, Ockham was taken by the teachings of an Arab theologian who taught that the Quran was the only revealed Word of God. Ockham adapted it to Christianity in the 14th century.
The principle may have been particularly impressive to someone centuries into the Christian era, but the principle itself is ancient and is evident in Scripture itself (which is why it was taught by the Reformers). It's not what it is because of either William or any Muslim theologian.

If Scripture did not teach the supremacy and adequacy of these inspired writings, Sola Scriptura would not exist. interestingly enough, the Catholic Church teaches that the Bible IS, indeed, divine revelation; she does not reject it as unreliable, but wants instead to make custom, legend, and theological speculation be on the same level as the Bible.

We should be discussing what would make anyone think that the word of God is not supreme in authority rather than playing around with the idea of whether or not it makes sense to follow Scripture instead of something created by men instead.
 
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dqhall

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Technically, it should be written "You shall not murder", which is different from kill otherwise capital punishment and war in the Old Testament would have been forbidden.
Actually war and capital punishment are not desired. Israel has not executed a criminal in decades.

When attacked, Israel counter attacked. Such is what happens in war, whether or not there are rules against killing. It might be argued the kingdoms of this world did overkill in their response to attacks.

Jesus advised his disciples not to resist evil. His small group was outnumbered. Jeremiah advised surrendering to the Babylonians. The men of Jerusalem were not ready for that and suffered greater loss in resisting.
 
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Valletta

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The principle may have been particularly impressive to someone centuries into the Christian era, but the principle itself is ancient and is evident in Scripture itself (which is why it was taught by the Reformers). It's not what it is because of either William or any Muslim theologian.

If Scripture did not teach the supremacy and adequacy of these inspired writings, Sola Scriptura would not exist. interestingly enough, the Catholic Church teaches that the Bible IS, indeed, divine revelation; she does not reject it as unreliable, but wants instead to make custom, legend, and theological speculation be on the same level as the Bible.

We should be discussing what would make anyone think that the word of God is not supreme in authority rather than playing around with the idea of whether or not it makes sense to follow Scripture instead of something created by men instead.
Please don't put out false anti-Catholic information, neither Jesus nor His Church wants to make "legend" on the same level as the Bible. God's word, whether written or oral, is on the same level. Remember the Catholic Church existed before one word of the NT was written. It was the Catholic Church that chose the 73 books of the Bible in a process that spanned centuries. NEVER did the Church say the Bible was the only authority, remember the Apostles and other early Christians did just fine and were saved without the Bible. The first historical list of the books of the Bible, in the same order we use today, was not until the mid 300s. Although the Protestants dropped some books they still use the order established by the Catholic Church as part of their Protestant tradition. Jesus himself was the New Covenant, or New Testament, His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist. As the Catholic Church chose the new books of Holy Scripture those books began to be referred to as "books of the New Testament."
 
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Albion

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Please don't put out false anti-Catholic information
Not to worry. I have no desire to promote "anti-Catholic" information.

...neither Jesus nor His Church wants to make "legend" on the same level as the Bible.
"His church," eh? I was hoping we could keep to the facts and avoid editorializing as we discussed this--not going out of our way to stick a finger in the other person's eye, as it were, by using deliberately prejudicial wording while explaining a point that doesn't require such a thing.

Legends have indeed been turned into dogma. The alleged Assumption of Mary is one such example.
 
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Albion

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It is quite peculiar if you think about it, all of a sudden the idea became the rage. Take a look at history before the 14th century.
Okay. How about the Nicene Creed? Do you think that your denomination produced it? Yet the Creed cites Scripture as the proof of what it is affirming, while there is no mention anywhere of Sacred Tradition or Holy Tradition, the "Magisterium," an infallible Papacy, or etc.
 
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Hammster

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It is quite peculiar if you think about it, all of a sudden the idea became the rage. Take a look at history before the 14th century.
So “all the rage” is the determining factor?
 
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SuperCow

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Actually war and capital punishment are not desired. Israel has not executed a criminal in decades.

When attacked, Israel counter attacked. Such is what happens in war, whether or not there are rules against killing. It might be argued the kingdoms of this world did overkill in their response to attacks.

Jesus advised his disciples not to resist evil. His small group was outnumbered. Jeremiah advised surrendering to the Babylonians. The men of Jerusalem were not ready for that and suffered greater loss in resisting.

What is desired is irrelevant. The law is sacrosanct. That is why the translation matters. If it was literally not to kill, it would be inconsistent with other parts of the law which required stoning for some major offenses. I agree that most of Israel's warfare (for the righteous kings anyway) was in self-defense. The original Canaanite occupants are an obvious exception.
 
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dqhall

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What is desired is irrelevant. The law is sacrosanct. That is why the translation matters. If it was literally not to kill, it would be inconsistent with other parts of the law which required stoning for some major offenses. I agree that most of Israel's warfare (for the righteous kings anyway) was in self-defense. The original Canaanite occupants are an obvious exception.
Jesus taught against the Lex Talionis doctrine that originated in Mesopotamia with King Hammarubi. Instead of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, if someone slaps you on the cheek, turn and offer the other cheek.

There have been no killings in my neighborhood for years, regardless of whether or not you think killing is legal.
 
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Albion

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There is nothing in the Bible about waiting for 1300 years to come up with the claim that the Bible is the sole authority.
No one had to. The Bible makes the claim for itself. Plus, the Early Church Fathers cited Scripture for their evidence...but never did the same with the alternatives that some churches claim are the equal of the word of God.
 
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Hammster

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There is nothing in the Bible about waiting for 1300 years to come up with the claim that the Bible is the sole authority.
So now you hold to sola scriptura?
 
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Athanasius377

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i guess people don't believe that God has power to teach individuals.

Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths...
12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

No one ever said that God's word cannot teach individuals. Rather it was the "Me and my bible alone" types that are dangerous because of human sinfulness which is exacerbated by not being party of a local church. So they twist the Scriptures and come up with novel doctrines. Which I would add is exactly what the proverb you quoted is warning against.
 
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