Refuting Arianism

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Arian Christology

The Son of God was created ad extra (creature of God)

Conclusion:

The Son is not equal to the Father in nature (ontological subordination)

The Son is not equal to the Father in authority (functional subordination)


Nicene Christology

The Son of God was created ad intra (begotten of God)

Conclusion:

The Son is equal to the Father in nature (ontological equality)

The Son is not equal to the Father in authority (functional subordination)

Therefore,i must prove that the Son is “ontologically subordinate” to his Father because I already adhere and concur that the Son is “functionally subordinate” to his Father.


On the Nicean Trinity


The Council declared a trinitarian notion IS entirely found in the Bible:



The Bible teach the Trinity not in a systematic way but in a personal way.


The disciples of Christ received the teaching of the Trinity by religious experience through being in Christ.


Therefore, Christians also after them would receive the teaching in the same way but now via the Holy Spirit ( John 14:25-28).


Jesus reveals God to us. That's his job. It's the reason why he has the appellation of "the Word" ( John 1:1,18).


Jesus affirms monotheism. The belief in an only one deity.He believes that this one God is the only true God and other deities are false but he didn't just affirm that for he also affirmed that this single God is his own very Dad ( John 5:18, 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6).


Jesus' sonship is the proof of his godhood. Although he is a Son, it doesn't mean there's an another God and hence, two Gods. There's still only one God because this Son is the Wisdom per se of the one God.


Again, there is an another person who is God yet God is still one. How then could this be? It is because the Son of the Father is his own Wisdom per se ( 1 Corinthians 1:24-25, Hebrews 1:3).


The trait Wisdom of the Father is equally a person like him ( because it's his own Son)and equally God in nature like him ( because he is from him , in his very being).


In what way is Jesus God's Wisdom

The Son is the Wisdom of the Father means that God doesn't need experiential knowledge to make decisions and judgments in a situation because he could make all decisions and judgments in all his activities via his Son ( Luke 11:49-Matt. 23:24, 1 Cor. 1:24-Col. 1:16-17, Heb. 1:3-Wisdom 7:25,26). Both Jesus' claims of Divinity ensues his Apostles to identify him as the Divine Wisdom in the flesh. The personified attribute in the Old Testament Scriptures had began to be understood as a real person in the New Testament.This fact remains monotheism despite of plurality of person within the Jewish Deity.


This fact shows that God is totally unlike us, that he's indeed incomparable to humans( Isaiah 46:5).


The Apostles and disciples of Christ received the teaching of the Trinity by Progressive revelation through being in Christ.


Synoptic gospels–Son of Man (focused on humanity: office as Prophet and Messiah of Israel)

John-Son of Man & Son of God ( Neutral: office as Priest and Shepherd )

Epistles- Son of God ( focused on divinity: office as Head of the church and king of the kingdom)


The Trinity Doctrine:


The three persons: The Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit are the only true God.


The Father is the only True God ( John 17:3).

The Son is the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the second person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom, as Father and Son.If the Son is not the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father then it means that the Son is a second God ( 1 Corinthians 1:24-25, Proverbs 8:22-31 LXX, John 1:18).

The Holy Spirit is the Life of the Father and the Son that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the third person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person and second person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom and Spirit, as Father and Son and Holy Spirit.If the Holy Spirit is not the Life of the Father and the Son then it means that the Son is a third God ( Matthew 28:19).


The Three Persons are the only true God by virtue of their relationship to each other.



It is very possible and logical according to the Scriptures to have a single deity existing in three personalities based on New Testament Wisdom Theology.
They deny the deity of Christ, and claim that John 1:1 merely calls him "a god," but not full deity. They rest their case on three facts of Greek grammar:
There is no such word as "a" or "an" in Greek, so we sometimes have to add "a" to translate into English, (Acts 28:6).
The Greek word used here (theos) has two meanings: usually the supreme God revealed in Scripture, but sometimes lesser beings like the gods of Greek mythol
Premise 1: Begetter: The eternal Lord – Proverbs 8:22 LXX
Premise 2: Begotten: The eternal Wisdom –Proverbs 8:25 LXX
Conclusion: The eternal Lord eternally begets Wisdom.
God begets Wisdom even before the Genesis creation: “The Lord created me, the first of his ways for his way” (Proverbs 8:22 LXX) “Before the hills, he begets me” (Proverbs 8:25 LXX)
Begetting denotes “creation within one’s nature”. This is akin to the scientific law of Gregor Mendel’s Genetics (like begets like). In Latin, this is called “creation ad intra” ( creation from within). Wisdom is equal to God in nature because he came from God’s very being. On the other hand, creation ad extra or creation from outside one’s nature is the one referred to in the Genesis account of creation (e.g. God created Adam out of dust. God and Adam are not equal in nature).
The Personified Wisdom played a great part in Jewish Theology because Israel is a monotheistic faith who detests polytheistic neighboring countries. God alone is worshiped and he is only one. His Wisdom is not other than him but of him that is why he can be praised through his Wisdom.
Although this is a literary form of expressing a divine truth, we nevertheless can conclude that systematically, God has three offspring in the Old Testament:
1) Angels (Job 38:4-7)
2) Israel ( Exodus 4:22)
3) Wisdom ( Proverbs 8:22-31)
Inter-testamental Jewish Theology
The Jews preserved the teaching of Wisdom theology as found in their Scriptures ( i.e. the Septuagint) and they had two great religious literary contributions about their age-old Wisdom theology:
Wisdom of Solomon
Book of Sirach
Philo of Alexandria who is a contemporary of the Apostles identifies Wisdom as Logos. He calls Logos as the “first born” of God and as the” image “of God. Although his stance on the Logos is as un-begotten, he deemed it as God’s first born one which denotes, together with its being God’s image, divine revelation and action.
New Testament Wisdom Theology
The writers of the New Testament Scriptures also understood Wisdom / Logos as “firstborn” and “Image” of God but unlike Philo, the disciples follow after the Old Testament Scriptures regarding the begottenness of God’s Wisdom/ Logos ( Colossians 1:13-17).
The disciples did not only follow the ancient Judaic concept of God’s wisdom but they also went further as to consider Wisdom as a real person than a mere personification. They identify Wisdom/ Logos to be Christ Jesus himself ( Hebrews 1:3).
1 Corinthians 1:24 Christ, the Power and Wisdom of God ( Sophia theou)
Jesus Christ himself was the one who taught this based on his very words:
John 3:16,18 He claims to be the ‘only begotten Son’ sent into the world by the Father
John 5:18 He claims equality in nature with 'God' because he calls him his own 'Father'.
John 5:19 He claims impeccability and omnipotence by saying " whatever the Father does the Son also does in the same manner".
John 5:23 He claims equality with the Father in honor. Jesus believes that he and the Father are co-equal in honor.
John 5:26 He claims equality with the Father in the sort of life ( eternality- existence without beginning or end).
John 8:58 He claims existence before Abraham's own existence.
John 10:28-38 He claims equality with the Father in the trait of impeccability and omnipotence: (1) None of Jesus' sheep (i.e. the saints) will be apostatized and (2) He is the one who will give them eternal life (both divine trait in same verse, Deuteronomy 32:39 LXX).
John 17:5 He claims to HAVE glory 'with' the Father before the world was.
By putting all of these into coherency, his beloved disciple John came up with his "Prologue":
John 1:1-4 ( Ps. 32:6 LXX) The Word existed with 'God' and has the “nature” of this God before creation all things through him. In him was life.
John 1:14 ( Ps. 45:1 LXX, Prov. 8:22-30) The Word has the glory of being the only begotten one with the 'Father'.
John 1:18( Ps. 110:3 LXX) The only begotten Word ( God in nature- monogenes theos*) or Son ( monogenes huios*) is within the bosom of the Father. * either reading supports the teaching of the Word's personhood.
CONCLUSION:
Jesus is equal to God in nature because he Wisdom, the eternally begotten by God:
Premise 1: Wisdom is eternally begotten by God.
Premise 2: Jesus is Wisdom
Conclusion: Jesus is eternally begotten by God
""You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." - John 14:28 NIV
Why did Jesus say that the Father is greater than him? The context shows that it is because he is going to the Father.
Sources:file:///media/fuse/drivefs-f7e1f2bb09e7a947e541f19eb4b2e0d6/root/New_Testament_Greek_Language_and_Lingui.pdf
Trinity: Ad Intra and Ad Extra | Levels… With Steps… | Dmitry Chernikov
https://digitalcommons.csbsju.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1023&context=sot_papers
The Trinitarian Christology of St. Thomas Aquinas | Reading Religion
 
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disciple Clint

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Arian Christology

The Son of God was created ad extra (creature of God)

Conclusion:

The Son is not equal to the Father in nature (ontological subordination)

The Son is not equal to the Father in authority (functional subordination)


Nicene Christology

The Son of God was created ad intra (begotten of God)

Conclusion:

The Son is equal to the Father in nature (ontological equality)

The Son is not equal to the Father in authority (functional subordination)

Therefore,i must prove that the Son is “ontologically subordinate” to his Father because I already adhere and concur that the Son is “functionally subordinate” to his Father.


On the Nicean Trinity


The Council declared a trinitarian notion IS entirely found in the Bible:



The Bible teach the Trinity not in a systematic way but in a personal way.


The disciples of Christ received the teaching of the Trinity by religious experience through being in Christ.


Therefore, Christians also after them would receive the teaching in the same way but now via the Holy Spirit ( John 14:25-28).


Jesus reveals God to us. That's his job. It's the reason why he has the appellation of "the Word" ( John 1:1,18).


Jesus affirms monotheism. The belief in an only one deity.He believes that this one God is the only true God and other deities are false but he didn't just affirm that for he also affirmed that this single God is his own very Dad ( John 5:18, 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6).


Jesus' sonship is the proof of his godhood. Although he is a Son, it doesn't mean there's an another God and hence, two Gods. There's still only one God because this Son is the Wisdom per se of the one God.


Again, there is an another person who is God yet God is still one. How then could this be? It is because the Son of the Father is his own Wisdom per se ( 1 Corinthians 1:24-25, Hebrews 1:3).


The trait Wisdom of the Father is equally a person like him ( because it's his own Son)and equally God in nature like him ( because he is from him , in his very being).


In what way is Jesus God's Wisdom? According to the plain scripture, he is God's Wisdom literally. Let me explain:


The Son is the Wisdom of the Father per se means that God doesn't need experiential knowledge to make sensible decisions and judgments in a situation because he could make all sensible decisions and judgments in all his activities via his Son ( Luke 11:49-Matt. 23:24, 1 Cor. 1:24-Col. 1:16-17, Heb. 1:3-Wisdom 7:25,26). Both Jesus' claims of Divinity and of Sophilology ensues his Apostles to identify him as the Divine Wisdom in the flesh. The personified attribute in the Old Testament Scriptures had began to be understood as a real person in the New Testament.This fact remains strict monotheism despite of plurality of person within the Jewish Deity.


This fact shows that God is totally unlike us, that he's indeed incomparable to humans( Isaiah 46:5).


The Apostles and disciples of Christ received the teaching of the Trinity by Progressive revelation through being in Christ.


Synoptic gospels–Son of Man (focused on humanity: office as Prophet and Messiah of Israel)

John-Son of Man & Son of God ( Neutral: office as Priest and Shepherd )

Epistles- Son of God ( focused on divinity: office as Head of the church and king of the kingdom)


The Trinity Doctrine:


The three persons: The Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit are the only true God.


The Father is the only True God ( John 17:3).

The Son is the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the second person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom, as Father and Son.If the Son is not the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father then it means that the Son is a second God ( 1 Corinthians 1:24-25, Proverbs 8:22-31 LXX, John 1:18).

The Holy Spirit is the Life of the Father and the Son that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the third person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person and second person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom and Spirit, as Father and Son and Holy Spirit.If the Holy Spirit is not the Life of the Father and the Son then it means that the Son is a third God ( Matthew 28:19).


The Three Persons are the only true God by virtue of their relationship to each other.


Conclusion:


It is very possible and logical according to the Scriptures to have a single deity existing in three personalities based on New Testament Wisdom Theology.
They deny the deity of Christ, and claim that John 1:1 merely calls him "a god," but not full deity. They rest their case on three facts of Greek grammar:
There is no such word as "a" or "an" in Greek, so we sometimes have to add "a" to translate into English, (Acts 28:6).
The Greek word used here (theos) has two meanings: usually the supreme God revealed in Scripture, but sometimes lesser beings like the gods of Greek mythology.
The Greek word "the" is often attached to the word "God" or theos, but it does not appear in John 1:1. Hiding behind the Witness rendering of the verse is an unspoken equation: God + "the" (ho theos) = Jehovah, the Almighty God, God - "the" (theos) = a created being with divine qualities. Witnesses claim that the apostle John deliberately omitted a "the" in the final phrase to show the difference between God and the Word. As the New World Translation (p. 775) explains:
"John's inspired writings and those of his fellow disciples show what the true idea is, namely, the Word or Logos is not God or the God, but is the Son of God, and hence is a god. That is why, at John 1:1,2, the apostle refers to God as the God and to the Word or Logos as a god, to show the difference between the Two.
Is this the proper translation?
No. The equation underlying the Arians rendering breaks down within a few verses. John 1:18 contains theos twice, without "the" either time. According to Watchtower assumptions, we would expect to translate both as "god" or "a god." Instead, the New World Translation says "God" the first time and "god" the second time. The context overrules their rule.
Why did John choose not to put "the" on the word God?
To show which word was the subject of the sentence. In English, we can recognize the subject of a sentence by looking at word order. In Greek, we must look at the word endings. John 1:1 is trickier than most verses, because both "God" (theos) and "Word" (logos) have the same ending. The usual way to mark off the subject clearly was to add "the" to the subject and leave it off the direct object. That is precisely what John did here.
To conform to standard Greek grammar. E.C. Colwell demonstrated in an article in the Journal of Biblical Literature in 1933 that it was normal practice to omit "the" in this type of sentence. John was simply using good grammar, and making it clear that he intended to say, "The Word was God" rather than "God was the Word," a statement with some theological drawbacks. John constructed his sentence in the one way that would preserve proper grammar and sound doctrine, declaring that "the Word was God."
Premise 1: Begetter: The eternal Lord – Proverbs 8:22 LXX
Premise 2: Begotten: The eternal Wisdom –Proverbs 8:25 LXX
Conclusion: The eternal Lord eternally begets Wisdom.
God begets Wisdom even before the Genesis creation: “The Lord created me, the first of his ways for his way” (Proverbs 8:22 LXX) “Before the hills, he begets me” (Proverbs 8:25 LXX)
Begetting denotes “creation within one’s nature”. This is akin to the scientific law of Gregor Mendel’s Genetics (like begets like). In Latin, this is called “creation ad intra” ( creation from within). Wisdom is equal to God in nature because he came from God’s very being. On the other hand, creation ad extra or creation from outside one’s nature is the one referred to in the Genesis account of creation (e.g. God created Adam out of dust. God and Adam are not equal in nature).
The Personified Wisdom played a great part in Jewish Theology because Israel is a monotheistic faith who detests polytheistic neighboring countries. God alone is worshiped and he is only one. His Wisdom is not other than him but of him that is why he can be praised through his Wisdom.
Although this is a literary form of expressing a divine truth, we nevertheless can conclude that systematically, God has three offspring in the Old Testament:
1) Angels (Job 38:4-7)
2) Israel ( Exodus 4:22)
3) Wisdom ( Proverbs 8:22-31)
Inter-testamental Jewish Theology
The Jews preserved the teaching of Wisdom theology as found in their Scriptures ( i.e. the Septuagint) and they had two great religious literary contributions about their age-old Wisdom theology:
Wisdom of Solomon
Book of Sirach
Philo of Alexandria who is a contemporary of the Apostles identifies Wisdom as Logos. He calls Logos as the “first born” of God and as the” image “of God. Although his stance on the Logos is as un-begotten, he deemed it as God’s first born one which denotes, together with its being God’s image, divine revelation and action.
New Testament Wisdom Theology
The writers of the New Testament Scriptures also understood Wisdom / Logos as “firstborn” and “Image” of God but unlike Philo, the disciples follow after the Old Testament Scriptures regarding the begottenness of God’s Wisdom/ Logos ( Colossians 1:13-17).
The disciples did not only follow the ancient Judaic concept of God’s wisdom but they also went further as to consider Wisdom as a real person than a mere personification. They identify Wisdom/ Logos to be Christ Jesus himself ( Hebrews 1:3).
1 Corinthians 1:24 Christ, the Power and Wisdom of God ( Sophia theou)
Jesus Christ himself was the one who taught this based on his very words:
John 3:16,18 He claims to be the ‘only begotten Son’ sent into the world by the Father
John 5:18 He claims equality in nature with 'God' because he calls him his own 'Father'.
John 5:19 He claims impeccability and omnipotence by saying " whatever the Father does the Son also does in the same manner".
John 5:23 He claims equality with the Father in honor. Jesus believes that he and the Father are co-equal in honor.
John 5:26 He claims equality with the Father in the sort of life ( eternality- existence without beginning or end).
John 8:58 He claims existence before Abraham's own existence.
John 10:28-38 He claims equality with the Father in the trait of impeccability and omnipotence: (1) None of Jesus' sheep (i.e. the saints) will be apostatized and (2) He is the one who will give them eternal life (both divine trait in same verse, Deuteronomy 32:39 LXX).
John 17:5 He claims to HAVE glory 'with' the Father before the world was.
By putting all of these into coherency, his beloved disciple John came up with his "Prologue":
John 1:1-4 ( Ps. 32:6 LXX) The Word existed with 'God' and has the “nature” of this God before creation all things through him. In him was life.
John 1:14 ( Ps. 45:1 LXX, Prov. 8:22-30) The Word has the glory of being the only begotten one with the 'Father'.
John 1:18( Ps. 110:3 LXX) The only begotten Word ( God in nature- monogenes theos*) or Son ( monogenes huios*) is within the bosom of the Father. * either reading supports the teaching of the Word's personhood.
CONCLUSION:
Jesus is equal to God in nature because he Wisdom, the eternally begotten by God:
Premise 1: Wisdom is eternally begotten by God.
Premise 2: Jesus is Wisdom
Conclusion: Jesus is eternally begotten by God.
God can be praised through Jesus while remaining purely monotheistic.
Premise 1: monotheistic Jews can praise God through his Wisdom
Premise 2: Jesus is Wisdom
Conclusion: monotheistic Jews can praise God through Jesus
2) I agree that the 3rd clause in John 1:1 has "theos' in the qualitative sense.
The Greek word "theos" is in the predicative nominative case. In Greek grammar, this denotes three things but only one of them is the correct one to be meant by John. So let's scrutinize:
1)definite ( God as noun)It can't be definite because the Word was with God
2)indefinite( a god)It can't be indefinite because the Word created everything
3)qualitative ( God in nature, God as adjective)This is the only one that fits both the immediate context and greater context. The Word has the nature of the God he's with.
3)The very verse you presented proves my stance:
""You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." - John 14:28 NIV
Why did Jesus say that the Father is greater than him? The context shows that it is because he is going to the Father.
What then does he mean by the Father is greater than him? Based on the context it's not talking about "nature" but 'position" because Christ was on earth and the Father is in heaven that is why he is going to the Father. The verse doesn't refute the divinity of Jesus but on the contrary it proves it! It's because he call God his own Father making himself equal with God which per se an another relevant scripture within the Johannine texts (i.e. John 5:18).
Is my argument sound? I do believe so...
The Son is not equal to the Father in authority (functional subordination)
Well done. Just for clarity regarding the economic Trinity this is not a subordination of essence or nature but only a subordination in mission or function.
 
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dóxatotheó

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Well done. Just for clarity regarding the economic Trinity this is not a subordination of essence or nature but only a subordination in mission or function.
correction it is not a subordination in essence(ontology) but rather only action(economia)
 
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disciple Clint

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correction it is not a subordination in essence(ontology) but rather only action(economia)
yes we are saying the same things. by the way if you do not go on to get your PhD and teach we will me missing a much talented person. I find it hard to keep reminding myself that you are only 17. All of your postings are excellent.
 
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dóxatotheó

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yes we are saying the same things. by the way if you do not go on to get your PhD and teach we will me missing a much talented person. I find it hard to keep reminding myself that you are only 17. All of your postings are excellent.
hahaha if God willing it will be done and thank you im a humble servant to his majesty and i thought about going in linguistics
 
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Nicene Christology


The Son of God was created ad intra (begotten of God)


For many Christians here it is more correct to say "the Son of God was not created AT ALL" -- which is the view I hold.
 
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dóxatotheó

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For many Christians here it is more correct to say "the Son of God was not created AT ALL" -- which is the view I hold.
The SON was generated just not in a state of time or apart from the essence the word create doesnt always insinuate being created literally
 
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Arian Christology

The Son of God was created ad extra (creature of God)

Conclusion:

The Son is not equal to the Father in nature (ontological subordination)

The Son is not equal to the Father in authority (functional subordination)


Nicene Christology

The Son of God was created ad intra (begotten of God)

Conclusion:

The Son is equal to the Father in nature (ontological equality)

The Son is not equal to the Father in authority (functional subordination)

Therefore,i must prove that the Son is “ontologically subordinate” to his Father because I already adhere and concur that the Son is “functionally subordinate” to his Father.


On the Nicean Trinity


The Council declared a trinitarian notion IS entirely found in the Bible:



The Bible teach the Trinity not in a systematic way but in a personal way.


The disciples of Christ received the teaching of the Trinity by religious experience through being in Christ.


Therefore, Christians also after them would receive the teaching in the same way but now via the Holy Spirit ( John 14:25-28).


Jesus reveals God to us. That's his job. It's the reason why he has the appellation of "the Word" ( John 1:1,18).


Jesus affirms monotheism. The belief in an only one deity.He believes that this one God is the only true God and other deities are false but he didn't just affirm that for he also affirmed that this single God is his own very Dad ( John 5:18, 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6).


Jesus' sonship is the proof of his godhood. Although he is a Son, it doesn't mean there's an another God and hence, two Gods. There's still only one God because this Son is the Wisdom per se of the one God.


Again, there is an another person who is God yet God is still one. How then could this be? It is because the Son of the Father is his own Wisdom per se ( 1 Corinthians 1:24-25, Hebrews 1:3).


The trait Wisdom of the Father is equally a person like him ( because it's his own Son)and equally God in nature like him ( because he is from him , in his very being).


In what way is Jesus God's Wisdom? According to the plain scripture, he is God's Wisdom literally. Let me explain:


The Son is the Wisdom of the Father per se means that God doesn't need experiential knowledge to make sensible decisions and judgments in a situation because he could make all sensible decisions and judgments in all his activities via his Son ( Luke 11:49-Matt. 23:24, 1 Cor. 1:24-Col. 1:16-17, Heb. 1:3-Wisdom 7:25,26). Both Jesus' claims of Divinity and of Sophilology ensues his Apostles to identify him as the Divine Wisdom in the flesh. The personified attribute in the Old Testament Scriptures had began to be understood as a real person in the New Testament.This fact remains strict monotheism despite of plurality of person within the Jewish Deity.


This fact shows that God is totally unlike us, that he's indeed incomparable to humans( Isaiah 46:5).


The Apostles and disciples of Christ received the teaching of the Trinity by Progressive revelation through being in Christ.


Synoptic gospels–Son of Man (focused on humanity: office as Prophet and Messiah of Israel)

John-Son of Man & Son of God ( Neutral: office as Priest and Shepherd )

Epistles- Son of God ( focused on divinity: office as Head of the church and king of the kingdom)


The Trinity Doctrine:


The three persons: The Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit are the only true God.


The Father is the only True God ( John 17:3).

The Son is the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the second person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom, as Father and Son.If the Son is not the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father then it means that the Son is a second God ( 1 Corinthians 1:24-25, Proverbs 8:22-31 LXX, John 1:18).

The Holy Spirit is the Life of the Father and the Son that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the third person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person and second person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom and Spirit, as Father and Son and Holy Spirit.If the Holy Spirit is not the Life of the Father and the Son then it means that the Son is a third God ( Matthew 28:19).


The Three Persons are the only true God by virtue of their relationship to each other.


Conclusion:


It is very possible and logical according to the Scriptures to have a single deity existing in three personalities based on New Testament Wisdom Theology.
They deny the deity of Christ, and claim that John 1:1 merely calls him "a god," but not full deity. They rest their case on three facts of Greek grammar:
There is no such word as "a" or "an" in Greek, so we sometimes have to add "a" to translate into English, (Acts 28:6).
The Greek word used here (theos) has two meanings: usually the supreme God revealed in Scripture, but sometimes lesser beings like the gods of Greek mythology.
The Greek word "the" is often attached to the word "God" or theos, but it does not appear in John 1:1. Hiding behind the Witness rendering of the verse is an unspoken equation: God + "the" (ho theos) = Jehovah, the Almighty God, God - "the" (theos) = a created being with divine qualities. Witnesses claim that the apostle John deliberately omitted a "the" in the final phrase to show the difference between God and the Word. As the New World Translation (p. 775) explains:
"John's inspired writings and those of his fellow disciples show what the true idea is, namely, the Word or Logos is not God or the God, but is the Son of God, and hence is a god. That is why, at John 1:1,2, the apostle refers to God as the God and to the Word or Logos as a god, to show the difference between the Two.
Is this the proper translation?
No. The equation underlying the Arians rendering breaks down within a few verses. John 1:18 contains theos twice, without "the" either time. According to Watchtower assumptions, we would expect to translate both as "god" or "a god." Instead, the New World Translation says "God" the first time and "god" the second time. The context overrules their rule.
Why did John choose not to put "the" on the word God?
To show which word was the subject of the sentence. In English, we can recognize the subject of a sentence by looking at word order. In Greek, we must look at the word endings. John 1:1 is trickier than most verses, because both "God" (theos) and "Word" (logos) have the same ending. The usual way to mark off the subject clearly was to add "the" to the subject and leave it off the direct object. That is precisely what John did here.
To conform to standard Greek grammar. E.C. Colwell demonstrated in an article in the Journal of Biblical Literature in 1933 that it was normal practice to omit "the" in this type of sentence. John was simply using good grammar, and making it clear that he intended to say, "The Word was God" rather than "God was the Word," a statement with some theological drawbacks. John constructed his sentence in the one way that would preserve proper grammar and sound doctrine, declaring that "the Word was God."
Premise 1: Begetter: The eternal Lord – Proverbs 8:22 LXX
Premise 2: Begotten: The eternal Wisdom –Proverbs 8:25 LXX
Conclusion: The eternal Lord eternally begets Wisdom.
God begets Wisdom even before the Genesis creation: “The Lord created me, the first of his ways for his way” (Proverbs 8:22 LXX) “Before the hills, he begets me” (Proverbs 8:25 LXX)
Begetting denotes “creation within one’s nature”. This is akin to the scientific law of Gregor Mendel’s Genetics (like begets like). In Latin, this is called “creation ad intra” ( creation from within). Wisdom is equal to God in nature because he came from God’s very being. On the other hand, creation ad extra or creation from outside one’s nature is the one referred to in the Genesis account of creation (e.g. God created Adam out of dust. God and Adam are not equal in nature).
The Personified Wisdom played a great part in Jewish Theology because Israel is a monotheistic faith who detests polytheistic neighboring countries. God alone is worshiped and he is only one. His Wisdom is not other than him but of him that is why he can be praised through his Wisdom.
Although this is a literary form of expressing a divine truth, we nevertheless can conclude that systematically, God has three offspring in the Old Testament:
1) Angels (Job 38:4-7)
2) Israel ( Exodus 4:22)
3) Wisdom ( Proverbs 8:22-31)
Inter-testamental Jewish Theology
The Jews preserved the teaching of Wisdom theology as found in their Scriptures ( i.e. the Septuagint) and they had two great religious literary contributions about their age-old Wisdom theology:
Wisdom of Solomon
Book of Sirach
Philo of Alexandria who is a contemporary of the Apostles identifies Wisdom as Logos. He calls Logos as the “first born” of God and as the” image “of God. Although his stance on the Logos is as un-begotten, he deemed it as God’s first born one which denotes, together with its being God’s image, divine revelation and action.
New Testament Wisdom Theology
The writers of the New Testament Scriptures also understood Wisdom / Logos as “firstborn” and “Image” of God but unlike Philo, the disciples follow after the Old Testament Scriptures regarding the begottenness of God’s Wisdom/ Logos ( Colossians 1:13-17).
The disciples did not only follow the ancient Judaic concept of God’s wisdom but they also went further as to consider Wisdom as a real person than a mere personification. They identify Wisdom/ Logos to be Christ Jesus himself ( Hebrews 1:3).
1 Corinthians 1:24 Christ, the Power and Wisdom of God ( Sophia theou)
Jesus Christ himself was the one who taught this based on his very words:
John 3:16,18 He claims to be the ‘only begotten Son’ sent into the world by the Father
John 5:18 He claims equality in nature with 'God' because he calls him his own 'Father'.
John 5:19 He claims impeccability and omnipotence by saying " whatever the Father does the Son also does in the same manner".
John 5:23 He claims equality with the Father in honor. Jesus believes that he and the Father are co-equal in honor.
John 5:26 He claims equality with the Father in the sort of life ( eternality- existence without beginning or end).
John 8:58 He claims existence before Abraham's own existence.
John 10:28-38 He claims equality with the Father in the trait of impeccability and omnipotence: (1) None of Jesus' sheep (i.e. the saints) will be apostatized and (2) He is the one who will give them eternal life (both divine trait in same verse, Deuteronomy 32:39 LXX).
John 17:5 He claims to HAVE glory 'with' the Father before the world was.
By putting all of these into coherency, his beloved disciple John came up with his "Prologue":
John 1:1-4 ( Ps. 32:6 LXX) The Word existed with 'God' and has the “nature” of this God before creation all things through him. In him was life.
John 1:14 ( Ps. 45:1 LXX, Prov. 8:22-30) The Word has the glory of being the only begotten one with the 'Father'.
John 1:18( Ps. 110:3 LXX) The only begotten Word ( God in nature- monogenes theos*) or Son ( monogenes huios*) is within the bosom of the Father. * either reading supports the teaching of the Word's personhood.
CONCLUSION:
Jesus is equal to God in nature because he Wisdom, the eternally begotten by God:
Premise 1: Wisdom is eternally begotten by God.
Premise 2: Jesus is Wisdom
Conclusion: Jesus is eternally begotten by God.
God can be praised through Jesus while remaining purely monotheistic.
Premise 1: monotheistic Jews can praise God through his Wisdom
Premise 2: Jesus is Wisdom
Conclusion: monotheistic Jews can praise God through Jesus
2) I agree that the 3rd clause in John 1:1 has "theos' in the qualitative sense.
The Greek word "theos" is in the predicative nominative case. In Greek grammar, this denotes three things but only one of them is the correct one to be meant by John. So let's scrutinize:
1)definite ( God as noun)It can't be definite because the Word was with God
2)indefinite( a god)It can't be indefinite because the Word created everything
3)qualitative ( God in nature, God as adjective)This is the only one that fits both the immediate context and greater context. The Word has the nature of the God he's with.
3)The very verse you presented proves my stance:
""You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." - John 14:28 NIV
Why did Jesus say that the Father is greater than him? The context shows that it is because he is going to the Father.
What then does he mean by the Father is greater than him? Based on the context it's not talking about "nature" but 'position" because Christ was on earth and the Father is in heaven that is why he is going to the Father. The verse doesn't refute the divinity of Jesus but on the contrary it proves it! It's because he call God his own Father making himself equal with God which per se an another relevant scripture within the Johannine texts (i.e. John 5:18).
Is my argument sound? I do believe so...

I too believe Jesus is God. Thanks for your post but you should in the future look to cite other peoples work that you use in your posts rather then claim it is your own. Tidying up your formatting will also help the readability of your posts so others can read it easier. Just a few helpful suggestions.

May God bless you as you seek Him through his Word :wave:
 
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dóxatotheó

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I too believe Jesus is God. Thanks for your post but you should in the future look to cite other peoples work that you use in your posts rather then claim it is your own. Tidying up your formatting will also help the readability of your posts so others can read it easier. Just a few helpful suggestions.

May God bless you as you seek Him through his Word :wave:
two things one this is actually a post i created this is something i studied on hard and read many arguments towards this and two idk wym by format and thanks
 
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BobRyan

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The SON was generated just not in a state of time

So you are saying there was never a time when God the Son did not exist, created does not always mean created ... and ... there was no time before Time when God the Son did not exist, never a time when one could say "God the Son has not been generated yet" (Since those are all time and sequence questions)

ok I get there easily with "God the Son was not created at all".

Given that your last post deleted all the extensions in reality with the concept "generated" and "created" then I don't think there is a "difference" between "not created at all" and everything you just deleted.
 
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dóxatotheó

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So you are saying there was never a time when God the Son did not exist, created does not always mean created ... and ... there was no time before Time when God the Son did not exist, never a time when one could say "God the Son has not been generated yet" (Since those are all time and sequence questions)

ok I get there easily with "God the Son was not created at all".

Given that your last post deleted all the extensions in reality with the concept "generated" and "created" then I don't think there is a "difference" between "not created at all" and everything you just deleted.
i never deleted anything
ad intra.

God is an infinite mind that thinks itself into existence and in so doing becomes self-aware.

The Father is intellect, the subject that knows, which is a union of everything real and ideal. The Holy Spirit is thought, self-knowledge, intelligible species, a simple and comprehensive act of full self-understanding, which is ideal. Hence “the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God” (1 Cor 2:10), as a thought penetrates to the essence of a thing being examined. The Son is the object known, which is real.

St. Thomas argues that “in God, intellect, and the object understood, and the intelligible species, and His act of understanding are entirely one and the same. Hence when God is said to be understanding, no kind of multiplicity is attached to His substance.” (ST, I, 14, 4)

The Father wishes to grasp His own essence. The Holy Spirit’s will is Love and Gift. The Father loves the Son by giving Him being / existence, and gives to Him the gift of perfection of essence and full access to and comprehension of the Father. The Son in His turn loves the Father by enjoying the Father’s gift perfectly and infinitely, and gives to Him the gift of perfect fealty and justice to His reality. The Son’s will consists in self-love, specifically to seek, obtain, and enjoy perfect and unconditional happiness.

The Father’s power is to beget the Son, to self-actualize or to realize Himself, to attain perfect cognition of Himself. The Holy Spirit’s power is to comprehend the Father, to envelop Him in thought. The Son’s power is to be begotten. The Son has no inner contradictions or opposing forces within Him. Nor is the Son in any way composite at all but is 100% simple. He has His being by His very nature, and it is in this supreme integrity that His power to “be what He is” and endure forever consists.

Of course, the power is God identical to its exercise within His act of self-understanding.

Second, ad extra.

God is Creator, Sanctifier, and Redeemer.

The Father possesses the natural knowledge of all possible finite worlds. The Holy Spirit possesses the middle knowledge of the potential worlds and the counterfactuals of freedom. For this reason, it is the Holy Spirit who is able to “speak through the prophets,” as per the creed. The Son possesses the free knowledge of the actual world. For this reason, it is “through Him” that the world was made; i.e., the Son decided by and for Himself which world was the best possible one and was to be created.

The Father’s will is to manifest His goodness. The Father does not Himself seek happiness; He wills that creatures-who-seek-happiness exist. The Holy Spirit’s will is to unite all rational creatures into one communion of angels and saints through charity. The Son’s will is personal love for each individual. I have already proposed that the Holy Spirit ought rightly to be considered the 2nd person of the Trinity, and the Son, the 3rd. I mentioned an objection to this in regard to the scope of each person’s mission to the created world. But now we can see how this objection can be answered: the Father is concerned with the entire universe as before; the Holy Spirit, while giving unique graces to individuals, is concerned with the union of mankind; and the Son, while uniting the human race to Godhead, is concerned with the salvation of each individual human being.

The Father’s power is to create ex nihilo; the Holy Spirit’s power is to bestow grace; and the Son’s power is to rule the created world with perfect and abiding competence for all eternity.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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two things one this is actually a post i created this is something i studied on hard and read many arguments towards this and two idk wym by format and thanks
No, your OP post contains other peoples work that is not your work. You copied sections from your OP verbatim from other people. I can provide the link if you want me to but did not think it was necessary and did not want to embarrass you in your OP which takes away from your OP discussion. My earlier post was only provided as a help and suggestion. You do not have to accept my helpful suggestions if you do not want to. That is up to you. If you want me to post the link that you have copied from other peoples work in your OP just ask me and I will provide it for all to see. My aim in my first post to you, was not to embarrass you but only to provide some helpful suggestions to make your OP better and more readable to others that may like to join the discussion.
 
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dóxatotheó

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No, your OP post contains other peoples work that is not your work. You copied sections from your OP verbatim from other people. I can provide the link if you want me to but did not think it was necessary and did not want to embarrass you in your OP which takes away from your OP discussion. My earlier post was only provided as a help and suggestion. You do not have to accept my helpful suggestions if you do not want to. That is up to you. If you want me to post the link that you have copied from other peoples work in your OP just ask me and I will provide it for all to see. My aim in my first post to you, was not to embarrass you but only to provide some helpful suggestions to make your OP better and more readable to others that may like to join the discussion.
of course it has peoples works everyones theological views are based on scholarship i have multiple sources on this subject i just didnt think it would matter and you can post the link i promise my pride doesnt hurt me
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Premise 1: Begetter: The eternal Lord – Proverbs 8:22 LXX
Premise 2: Begotten: The eternal Wisdom –Proverbs 8:25 LXX
Conclusion: The eternal Lord eternally begets Wisdom.
God begets Wisdom even before the Genesis creation: “The Lord created me, the first of his ways for his way” (Proverbs 8:22 LXX) “Before the hills, he begets me” (Proverbs 8:25 LXX)
Begetting denotes “creation within one’s nature”. This is akin to the scientific law of Gregor Mendel’s Genetics (like begets like). In Latin, this is called “creation ad intra” ( creation from within). Wisdom is equal to God in nature because he came from God’s very being. On the other hand, creation ad extra or creation from outside one’s nature is the one referred to in the Genesis account of creation (e.g. God created Adam out of dust. God and Adam are not equal in nature).
I am only posting this as you rated my last post optimistic to make out I was not being truthful with my claims you are using other peoples work verbatim in your OP while claiming it as your own work. I am only using this example to prove that your using other peoples work verbatim without providing your sources. The above is taken from this website here at Debate.org linked. You need to post your sources and give other people credit for any work that you copy from them verbatim. Perhaps you did not know this. That is why I was trying to be helpful earlier. You are free to do as you wish but your passing off other peoples work here as your own.
 
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dóxatotheó

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I am only using this example to prove that your using other peoples work verbatim without providing your sources. The above is taken from this website here at Debate.org linked. You need to post your sources and give other people credit for any work that you copy from them verbatim. Perhaps you did not know this. That is why I was trying to be helpful earlier. You are free to do as you wish.
this isnt even the source of my work i accept your optimism of exposing plagarism i already admitted that this belief is not original too me but i wrote this but if you want to see the real sources here and i told you my pride doesnt hold me but if you want to expose plagarism because sociable linkness to a site thats completely illogical fam and completely irrelevant to what im trying to address
file:///media/fuse/drivefs-f7e1f2bb09e7a947e541f19eb4b2e0d6/root/New_Testament_Greek_Language_and_Lingui.pdf
Critical Remarks on a New Introduction to the Old Testament on JSTOR
Trinity: Ad Intra and Ad Extra | Levels… With Steps… | Dmitry Chernikov
 
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LoveGodsWord

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this isnt even the source of my work i accept your optimism of exposing plagarism i already admitted that this belief is not original too me but i wrote this but if you want to see the real sources here and i told you my pride doesnt hold me but if you want to expose plagarism because sociable linkness to a site thats completely illogical fam and completely irrelevant to what im trying to address
file:///media/fuse/drivefs-f7e1f2bb09e7a947e541f19eb4b2e0d6/root/New_Testament_Greek_Language_and_Lingui.pdf
Critical Remarks on a New Introduction to the Old Testament on JSTOR
Trinity: Ad Intra and Ad Extra | Levels… With Steps… | Dmitry Chernikov

Then post the sources in your OP. That is all I said to you from the very first post. It did not have to go this far as I was only trying to be helpful.
 
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dóxatotheó

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Then post the sources in your OP. That is all I said to you from the very first post. It did not have to go this far as I was only trying to be helpful.
its ok i apologize
 
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its ok i apologize
No worries. All good. We all make mistakes. Putting your sources in your OP will only help your posts and any future OP's you might make and the formatting will make it easy for others to follow along and read.

May God bless you as you seek Him through his Word. :wave:
 
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dóxatotheó

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No worries. All good. We all make mistakes. Putting your sources in your OP will only help your posts and any future OP's you might make and the formatting will make it easy for others to follow along and read.

May God bless you as you seek Him through his Word. :wave:
dont worry i edited and provided sources
 
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i never deleted anything
ad intra.

God is an infinite mind that thinks itself into existence and in so doing becomes self-aware.

The Father is intellect, the subject that knows, which is a union of everything real and ideal. The Holy Spirit is thought, self-knowledge, intelligible species, a simple and comprehensive act of full self-understanding, which is ideal. Hence “the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God” (1 Cor 2:10), as a thought penetrates to the essence of a thing being examined. The Son is the object known, which is real.

St. Thomas argues that “in God, intellect, and the object understood, and the intelligible species, and His act of understanding are entirely one and the same. Hence when God is said to be understanding, no kind of multiplicity is attached to His substance.” (ST, I, 14, 4)

The Father wishes to grasp His own essence. The Holy Spirit’s will is Love and Gift. The Father loves the Son by giving Him being / existence, and gives to Him the gift of perfection of essence and full access to and comprehension of the Father. The Son in His turn loves the Father by enjoying the Father’s gift perfectly and infinitely, and gives to Him the gift of perfect fealty and justice to His reality. The Son’s will consists in self-love, specifically to seek, obtain, and enjoy perfect and unconditional happiness.

The Father’s power is to beget the Son, to self-actualize or to realize Himself, to attain perfect cognition of Himself. The Holy Spirit’s power is to comprehend the Father, to envelop Him in thought. The Son’s power is to be begotten. The Son has no inner contradictions or opposing forces within Him. Nor is the Son in any way composite at all but is 100% simple. He has His being by His very nature, and it is in this supreme integrity that His power to “be what He is” and endure forever consists.

Of course, the power is God identical to its exercise within His act of self-understanding.

Second, ad extra.

God is Creator, Sanctifier, and Redeemer.

The Father possesses the natural knowledge of all possible finite worlds. The Holy Spirit possesses the middle knowledge of the potential worlds and the counterfactuals of freedom. For this reason, it is the Holy Spirit who is able to “speak through the prophets,” as per the creed. The Son possesses the free knowledge of the actual world. For this reason, it is “through Him” that the world was made; i.e., the Son decided by and for Himself which world was the best possible one and was to be created.

The Father’s will is to manifest His goodness. The Father does not Himself seek happiness; He wills that creatures-who-seek-happiness exist. The Holy Spirit’s will is to unite all rational creatures into one communion of angels and saints through charity. The Son’s will is personal love for each individual. I have already proposed that the Holy Spirit ought rightly to be considered the 2nd person of the Trinity, and the Son, the 3rd. I mentioned an objection to this in regard to the scope of each person’s mission to the created world. But now we can see how this objection can be answered: the Father is concerned with the entire universe as before; the Holy Spirit, while giving unique graces to individuals, is concerned with the union of mankind; and the Son, while uniting the human race to Godhead, is concerned with the salvation of each individual human being.

The Father’s power is to create ex nihilo; the Holy Spirit’s power is to bestow grace; and the Son’s power is to rule the created world with perfect and abiding competence for all eternity.

How do you harmonize this post with God having only one essence, intellect, and will.
 
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