Historical Creationism: Literal Genesis, Old Earth

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Ezekiel 31:8/9 is interesting,

8 The cedars in the garden of God could not rival it; the cypresses could not compare with its branches, nor the plane trees match its boughs. No tree in the garden of God could compare with its beauty.
9 I made it beautiful with its many branches, the envy of all the trees of Eden, which were in the garden of God.’

Mark 8:24
The man looked up and said, “I can see the people, but they look like trees walking around.”
 
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Theologians used to think that the earth was the center of the universe, but that didn't stop Galileo, and what theologians say today, be them young earth or old earth etc.)

While the earth might not be the physical center of the universe, science today is suggesting that the universe was fine-tuned for the purpose of intelligent life on our planet. I'm guessing you are familiar with the anthropic principle.

Jesus came and died on the cross, and reversed the consequences of Adams sin, and yet, clearly physical death still exists in the world. Rather it's a spiritual eternity that Christ has given us.

Jesus also rose from the dead, thus ensuring our own resurrection, reversing the death caused by Adam's sin. If Romans 5 is only referring to spiritual death, then was Jesus not raised in a physical body?

Do you believe that the Bible presents Adam as the historical father of all humanity, by whom we inherited sin and death? If not, why not?

Luke's genealogy of Jesus, for example, makes pretty clear that he regarded Adam as a historical person. Luke traces Jesus back to Adam in order to show that Jesus is the savior for all humanity, just as Adam was the father of all humanity.
 
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While the earth might not be the physical center of the universe, science today is suggesting that the universe was fine-tuned for the purpose of intelligent life on our planet. I'm guessing you are familiar with the anthropic principle.



Jesus also rose from the dead, thus ensuring our own resurrection, reversing the death caused by Adam's sin. If Romans 5 is only referring to spiritual death, then was Jesus not raised in a physical body?

Do you believe that the Bible presents Adam as the historical father of all humanity, by whom we inherited sin and death? If not, why not?

Luke's genealogy of Jesus, for example, makes pretty clear that he regarded Adam as a historical person. Luke traces Jesus back to Adam in order to show that Jesus is the savior for all humanity, just as Adam was the father of all humanity.

Yeah, it's common that when we read the book of Luke (sometimes referred to as Dr. Luke) we see a lot of very detailed statements that imply an effort provide validity to what he's saying.

And this very well could be with respect to a historical Adam as well. In which case I think that we need to ask a personal question to ourselves. Now of course Luke wasn't present to know what was around in the beginning. So there's naturally this difficult question that we have to ask ourselves. Do we want to perceive the scripture as it appears to be written? The book of Genesis does appear to describe 24-hour days, in my opinion. And some Christians will say that maybe the sun didn't exist and that a day might mean some period of time and things of this nature. But I think that if we take a really plain and simple reading of the scripture, it does appear to simply say that the earth was created in six days.

And so if we do take on a position that the authors literally did mean what appears to be simply put, And if we do hold that thought that Luke may have actually meant very literally that Adam existed, Then the only place left to go is to simply ask the question of if we are convinced by that statement.

If so, then we may as well be young earth creationists. But for those of us who are not convinced, then we really have no choice but to move on to these alternative options of considering that either the authors were liars (which I don't think any Christian truly believes), or that the authors were speaking in non-literal ways with parables, or maybe they were speaking absolute truth and with full honesty, but maybe they just had limitations on what they knew etc.

Sometimes I consider this question of why I believe that the Earth is billions of years old. Why do I? And in truth it's something that I don't really have a choice over. No more than I have a choice over if I perceive grass as green or the sky blue. Some things just are as they are. And some things when they are seen cannot be unseen.

So when I look at scripture that appears to say something, frankly, that goes against my observation and experience, personally, I have no choice but to view it as non-literal or in a manner other than YECism.

And I think that Adam is absolutely presented as a historical father of all humanity in scripture. And that through him sin entered the world. Do I think that Adam literally existed? I don't think so. But I think that when it comes to reading scripture, and Christ dying on the cross for our sins, sin being introduced through Adam really sets the stage for the redemption of mankind. Scripture appears to quite plainly describe Adam as having been created, naming animals and Eve being made out part of Him. I think the book of Genesis clearly describes a man and woman in the beginning.

Now if Adam wasn't literally real, would that mean that Jesus died for nothing? I think that people are still clearly broken and in need of a savior. I don't think that Adam being literally real or figuratively real changes the astonishing and miraculous sacrifice of Christ.

And regarding Romans 5, Scripture describes the stone being rolled away and people being astonished that the body of Christ was gone. Now I don't have a time machine to go back to see what happened, and some people might believe that it was a physical resurrection, some might believe that it was a spiritual resurrection, or both. I think that, while I may not personally know what happened that day, regardless of whether this was physical or spiritual, Christ defeated death either way. And in His victory, He has risen and has saved us. I don't think that the resurrection being of a physical body or not takes away or adds to the message.

And of course doubting Thomas came and Jesus called on Thomas to stick his hand in Jesus' side and into the holes of His hands. And for literal scripture readers, this is very plain and simple English. But even if it were more of a spiritual experience that Thomas had, I think that the impact of what Paul was writing is clear and remains significant. Paul is really driving home that this is eternal truth and that it is worth believing. Paul never met Jesus (during his humanly ministries). It is interesting to wonder what the spiritual experience Paul had was like, and how Paul later came to translate his thoughts onto paper. His authorship has brought countless people to Christ.
 
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Yeah, it's common that when we read the book of Luke (sometimes referred to as Dr. Luke) we see a lot of very detailed statements that imply an effort provide validity to what he's saying.

And this very well could be with respect to a historical Adam as well. In which case I think that we need to ask a personal question to ourselves. Now of course Luke wasn't present to know what was around in the beginning. So there's naturally this difficult question that we have to ask ourselves. Do we want to perceive the scripture as it appears to be written? The book of Genesis does appear to describe 24-hour days, in my opinion. And some Christians will say that maybe the sun didn't exist and that a day might mean some period of time and things of this nature. But I think that if we take a really plain and simple reading of the scripture, it does appear to simply say that the earth was created in six days.

And so if we do take on a position that the authors literally did mean what appears to be simply put, And if we do hold that thought that Luke may have actually meant very literally that Adam existed, Then the only place left to go is to simply ask the question of if we are convinced by that statement.

If so, then we may as well be young earth creationists. But for those of us who are not convinced, then we really have no choice but to move on to these alternative options of considering that either the authors were liars (which I don't think any Christian truly believes), or that the authors were speaking in non-literal ways with parables, or maybe they were speaking absolute truth and with full honesty, but maybe they just had limitations on what they knew etc.

Sometimes I consider this question of why I believe that the Earth is billions of years old. Why do I? And in truth it's something that I don't really have a choice over. No more than I have a choice over if I perceive grass as green or the sky blue. Some things just are as they are. And some things when they are seen cannot be unseen.

So when I look at scripture that appears to say something, frankly, that goes against my observation and experience, personally, I have no choice but to view it as non-literal or in a manner other than YECism.

And I think that Adam is absolutely presented as a historical father of all humanity in scripture. And that through him sin entered the world. Do I think that Adam literally existed? I don't think so. But I think that when it comes to reading scripture, and Christ dying on the cross for our sins, sin being introduced through Adam really sets the stage for the redemption of mankind. Scripture appears to quite plainly describe Adam as having been created, naming animals and Eve being made out part of Him. I think the book of Genesis clearly describes a man and woman in the beginning.

Now if Adam wasn't literally real, would that mean that Jesus died for nothing? I think that people are still clearly broken and in need of a savior. I don't think that Adam being literally real or figuratively real changes the astonishing and miraculous sacrifice of Christ.

And regarding Romans 5, Scripture describes the stone being rolled away and people being astonished that the body of Christ was gone. Now I don't have a time machine to go back to see what happened, and some people might believe that it was a physical resurrection, some might believe that it was a spiritual resurrection, or both. I think that, while I may not personally know what happened that day, regardless of whether this was physical or spiritual, Christ defeated death either way. And in His victory, He has risen and has saved us. I don't think that the resurrection being of a physical body or not takes away or adds to the message.

And of course doubting Thomas came and Jesus called on Thomas to stick his hand in Jesus' side and into the holes of His hands. And for literal scripture readers, this is very plain and simple English. But even if it were more of a spiritual experience that Thomas had, I think that the impact of what Paul was writing is clear and remains significant. Paul is really driving home that this is eternal truth and that it is worth believing. Paul never met Jesus (during his humanly ministries). It is interesting to wonder what the spiritual experience Paul had was like, and how Paul later came to translate his thoughts onto paper. His authorship has brought countless people to Christ.

I think that people often want the world to fit in the little boxes. They want everything to be clean cut and simple like a math equation. Put a nice little bow on top of it.

But I just don't really perceive the world in such a way. Literalists will always struggle with physical reality. And people who take scripture in nonliteral ways will always be left with questions of the unknown about the authorship of scripture and where there are literal or figurative statements. Sometimes reality just doesn't fit in neat little simple boxes.
 
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Humble_Disciple

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I just finished re-reading the Book of Genesis, and it's clearly written to be interpreted as history. I don't care if the earth is 6,000 years old or 4.5 billion years old or if the flood was local or global, because either way, Genesis is still a historical account. Why do I say this?

The reason is because the genealogies in Genesis would be meaningless and purposeless if they weren't intended to convey historical people. Why go into such detail in portraying mythical figures?

If Adam wasn't a real person, why should we believe that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were real? Genesis makes no distinction between their historicity at all.
 
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I just finished re-reading the Book of Genesis, and it's clearly written to be interpreted as history. I don't care if the earth is 6,000 years old or 4.5 billion years old or if the flood was local or global, because either way, Genesis is still a historical account. Why do I say this?

The reason is because the genealogies in Genesis would be meaningless and purposeless if they weren't intended to convey historical people. Why go into such detail in portraying mythical figures?

If Adam wasn't a real person, why should we believe that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were real? Genesis makes no distinction between their historicity at all.

Adam of course is different from any other typical person of scripture in that he was made from dust. To believe in a literal Adam is of a greater faith based demand than belief in a regular person. Just as it would be more demanding to believe that your neighbor has 6 arms rather than just two as a regular person would. As the common phrase goes, "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".

However,

If we ignored external sources of information, and only used scripture to determine truth and our understanding of reality, I would agree that a literal interpretation and belief in Adam would be a fair conclusion.

You asked why the authors of various books on scripture went through such detail to describe figures that may not be literally real (in a theistic evolution perspective?).

Nobody was really around to witness much of the events of the book of Genesis. Yet there is a great deal of effort to describe the events of creation.

I think the simple answer for why these details exist, is likely because the authors felt convicted and wanted to share. The question of if that conviction reflects a literal truth, or an allegorical truth, and the question of if the authors were fully aware of the specific details of that truth, is another discussion.
 
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Young earth creationists claim that animal death somehow couldn't have existed before Adam's fall, even though Romans 5 refers specifically to human death, not animal death:

What's it to you if animals were dying for millions of years before God created Adam and placed him in the garden of Eden? Nowhere does the Bible actually say that animal death entered the world due to Adam's sin, yet young earthers insist on it.

As for those who accept theistic evolution, please explain how it squares with Adam being the historical father of all humanity, by whom sin entered the world, as the New Testament clearly teaches.

I have been toying with a concept of old earth, old life, and recent sin. I.e. Adam and Eve were the father an mother of all humans who now live on the earth because they are the ones who sinned. Everyone else was removed from the planet, as Enoch was. I'm not married to this idea, just thinking about it.
 
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The New Testament repeatedly affirms Adam as the historical father of all humanity, by whom sin entered the world:

The New Testament assumes a literal creation of Adam. Adam is a type of Christ who is to come:

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come (Romans 5:14).

The first Adam became a living being:

And so it is written, The first man Adam became a living being. The last Adam a life-giving spirit (1 Corinthians 15:45).

For Adam was first formed then Eve (1 Timothy 2:13).

Adam was made from the dust of the earth while Eve was made from the side of Adam. Therefore, Paul can say:

And He has made us one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth (Acts 17:26).

In , the Apostle Paul discussed the literal bodily resurrection of Christ and of believers. He wrote:

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22).

From the construction For as . . . so also it is clear that if all do not die in Adam, then none shall be made alive in Christ. If Adam is not a literal historical person, then the Christian has no hope of the resurrection. If Adam is merely figurative, then our resurrection is merely figurative. Elsewhere, Paul not only confirms the Genesis account, he relates it to Jesus:

For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 4:6).

Creation Of Eve

The Bible says Eve, the first woman, was created by a supernatural direct act of God. She was made from Adams side. The biblical account of the creation of Eve is rejected by theistic evolutionists. They say man and woman evolved together from some ape-like creature over a span of several million years. However, the writers of the New Testament support the literal truth of this account of Eves creation:

For man is not from woman, but woman from man (1 Corinthians 11:8).
Can Theistic Evolution Solve the Controversy between Creation and Evolution?

If the New Testament is repeatedly wrong about Adam somehow being a mythical figure, including Jesus' genealogy in Luke 3:23-38, how can we trust any historical claims that the New Testament makes about Jesus, including His resurrection?

I don't care if the earth is 4.5 billion years old or 6,000 years old or if there was a local flood or a global flood. I care about honoring the New Testament's repeated affirmation of Adam as the historical father of all humanity.

An evolutionist will point to similarities between chimps and humans and insist that we must share a common ancestor, but a Christian who trusts the New Testament as the bedrock for our salvation will look at the vast differences between chimps and humans that evolution cannot explain.

Reflections on Human Origins
William A. Dembski
version 2.1, 18aug04

ABSTRACT: The evolutionary literature treats the evolution of humans from ape-like ancestors as overwhelmingly confirmed. Moreover, this literature defines evolution as an inherently material process without any guidance from an underlying intelligence. This paper reviews the main lines of evidence used to support such a materialist view of human evolution and finds them inadequate. Instead, it argues that an evolutionary process unguided by intelligence cannot adequately account for the remarkable intellectual and moral qualities exhibited among humans. The bottom line is that intelligence has played an indispensable role in human origins...
https://billdembski.com/documents/2004.06.Human_Origins.pdf
 
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The New Testament repeatedly affirms Adam as the historical father of all humanity, by whom sin entered the world:



If the New Testament is repeatedly wrong about Adam somehow being a mythical figure, including Jesus' genealogy in Luke 3:23-38, how can we trust any historical claims that the New Testament makes about Jesus, including His resurrection?

I don't care if the earth is 4.5 billion years old or 6,000 years old or if there was a local flood or a global flood. I care about honoring the New Testament's repeated affirmation of Adam as the historical father of all humanity.

An evolutionist will point to similarities between chimps and humans and insist that we must share a common ancestor, but a Christian who trusts the New Testament as the bedrock for our salvation will look at the vast differences between chimps and humans that evolution cannot explain.

"how can we trust any historical claims that the New Testament makes about Jesus"

Well, it becomes a matter of faith. Some people abandon belief in Jesus when they find out that Adam and Eve weren't literally real, or that a global flood wasn't literally real or that earth isn't literally 6,000 years old, or that Satan wasn't literally a talking snake.

But for those not willing to give up on Christ, we retain faith despite these observations.
 
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This was actually a pretty good video.

Unfortunately, I think that a lot of Christians have an issue with the idea of people evolving from more primitive apes, in contrast to the literal depiction of Adam and Eve being our ancestors.

So even if we consider concepts like evo-devo and evolution following morphological "blue-prints" with relation to things like convergent evolution, And even if we accept that evolution has a lot of processes that aren't random and do give the appearance of being potentially guided or in some ways predictable, this won't be enough for a lot of Christians and would still likely be hard to accept.
 
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Jewish commentaries traditionally upheld Adam's creation from dust, rather than evolution from an ape-like creature:

According to Targ. Yer. to Gen. ii. 7, God took dust from the holy place (as "the center of the earth"; compare Pirḳe R. Eliezer xi., xx.) and the four parts of the world, mingling it with the water of all the seas, and made him red, black, and white (probably more correctly Pirḳe R. El. xi. and Chronicle of Jerahmeel, vi. 7: "White, black, red, and green—bones and sinews white; intestines black; blood red; skin of body or liver green"); compare Philo, "Creation of the World," xlvii.; Abulfeda, "Historia Ante-Islámica."...

R. Meir (second century) has the tradition that God made Adam of the dust gathered from the whole world; and Rab (third century) says: "His head was made of earth from the Holy Land; his main body, from Babylonia; and the various members from different lands" (Sanh. 38a et seq.; compare Gen. R. viii.; Midr. Teh. cxxxix. 5; and Tan., Peḳude, 3, end)...

It is a beautiful and certainly an original idea of the rabbis that "Adam was created from the dust of the place where the sanctuary was to rise for the atonement of all human sin," so that sin should never be a permanent or inherent part of man's nature (Gen. R. xiv., Yer. Naz. vii. 56b).
ADAM - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Jewish commentaries also traditionally upheld Adam as the historical father of all humankind:

While the generic character that the name of Adam has in the older parts of Scripture, where it appears with the article ("the man"), was gradually lost sight of, his typical character as the representative of the unity of mankind was constantly emphasized (compare Sanh. iv. 5; the correct reading in Tosef., Sanh. viii. 4-9):

"Why was only a single specimen of man created first? To teach us that he who destroys a single soul destroys a whole world and that he who saves a single soul saves a whole world; furthermore, in order that no race or class may claim a nobler ancestry, saying, 'Our father was born first'; and, finally, to give testimony to the greatness of the Lord, who caused the wonderful diversity of mankind to emanate from one type. And why was Adam created last of all beings? To teach him humility; for if he be overbearing, let him remember that the little fly preceded him in the order of creation."

In a dispute, therefore, as to which Biblical verse expresses the fundamental principle of the Law, Simon ben 'Azkai maintained against R. Akiba—who, following Hillel, had singled out the Golden Rule (Lev. xix. 18)—that the principle of love must have as its basis Gen. v. 1, which teaches that all men are the offspring of him who was made in the image of God (Sifra, Ḳedoshim, iv.; Yer. Ned. ix. 41c; Gen. R. 24). This idea, expressed also by Paul in his speech at Athens, "[God] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth" (Acts, xvii. 26), found expression in many characteristic forms.
ADAM - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
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If all humans living today are descended from one woman, Mitochondrial Eve, who lived 200,000 years ago, this can be reconciled with the Bible's genealogies if there were gaps in them. If Y-chromosomal Adam came after Mitochondrial Eve, he likely could have been Noah.
 
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If all humans living today are descended from one woman, Mitochondrial Eve, who lived 200,000 years ago, this can be reconciled with the Bible's genealogies if there were gaps in them. If Y-chromosomal Adam came after Mitochondrial Eve, he likely could have been Noah.

Yea I mean, there are different ways to view this.

I tend to view Genesis as being God inspired, but it wasn't necessarily God that wrote Genesis himself.

The author or authors of Genesis were inspired by God and had these ideas about how God was behind the creation of mankind, man and woman. And Genesis has a lot to do with man and woman being of one flash and married to one another and being open and honest and exposed or naked to God and without shame. Whereas man is then later depicted as ashamed of being naked, hiding from God, hiding truth, blaming eve, separated from God and divided in sin.

There are a lot of parable-like values instilled in the book of Genesis. But beyond these particular values I think that the authors who were inspired by God, they may have believed that the beginning of mankind had to begin once with a man and a woman. There had to be a start somewhere at some time that involved the two sexes giving birth, beginning life of the first people. But I wouldn't expect the authors to necessarily have known exactly where or exactly when these individuals existed. And Genesis seems like this effort to express ideas about how God created us, to the best of someone's ability, given that the author didn't necessarily have a time machine to witness it all.

And when we look at y chromosome Adam or mitochondrial Eve, it's not necessarily a direct 1 to 1 match with the book of Genesis. But these concepts are similar in that both Genesis and biology reflect that we do have our origins that go back to distinct individuals. And yes, y chromosome Adam would have had parents and perhaps also brothers and sisters. But I think it's worth noting that this theoretically biological Adam existed. And that mankind at some time, began existing, and that time had to begin with an individual.

And I think that's just what the Author of Genesis wanted to express. That in the beginning, God created and began mankind through an individual, and that God made a woman as well, and through the two, joined in marriage, open and honest before God, began mankind.

The story doesn't have to be literally true with a woman being formed out of a rib bone, or a mans body being formed out of mud like a clay jar, to still clearly reflect truth. Though God forming man out of clay or dust, could also be a way of expressing the concept that God was intimately involved in shaping and forming mankind. Rather than mankind just forming without God's guidance. It just demonstrates Gods presence and activeness in our lives. Rather than God's absence.

But I don't think this necessarily means that literally clay and mud from the ground with worms and bugs in it and maybe grass on it, just took form of a person and then just came alive.

That's just my opinion.
 
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Yea I mean, there are different ways to view this.

I tend to view Genesis as being God inspired, but it wasn't necessarily God that wrote Genesis himself.

The author or authors of Genesis were inspired by God and had these ideas about how God was behind the creation of mankind, man and woman. And Genesis has a lot to do with man and woman being of one flash and married to one another and being open and honest and exposed or naked to God and without shame. Whereas man is then later depicted as ashamed of being naked, hiding from God, hiding truth, blaming eve, separated from God and divided in sin.

There are a lot of parable-like values instilled in the book of Genesis. But beyond these particular values I think that the authors who were inspired by God, they may have believed that the beginning of mankind had to begin once with a man and a woman. There had to be a start somewhere at some time that involved the two sexes giving birth, beginning life of the first people. But I wouldn't expect the authors to necessarily have known exactly where or exactly when these individuals existed. And Genesis seems like this effort to express ideas about how God created us, to the best of someone's ability, given that the author didn't necessarily have a time machine to witness it all.

And when we look at y chromosome Adam or mitochondrial Eve, it's not necessarily a direct 1 to 1 match with the book of Genesis. But these concepts are similar in that both Genesis and biology reflect that we do have our origins that go back to distinct individuals. And yes, y chromosome Adam would have had parents and perhaps also brothers and sisters. But I think it's worth noting that this theoretically biological Adam existed. And that mankind at some time, began existing, and that time had to begin with an individual.

And I think that's just what the Author of Genesis wanted to express. That in the beginning, God created and began mankind through an individual, and that God made a woman as well, and through the two, joined in marriage, open and honest before God, began mankind.

The story doesn't have to be literally true with a woman being formed out of a rib bone, or a mans body being formed out of mud like a clay jar, to still clearly reflect truth. Though God forming man out of clay or dust, could also be a way of expressing the concept that God was intimately involved in shaping and forming mankind. Rather than mankind just forming without God's guidance. It just demonstrates Gods presence and activeness in our lives. Rather than God's absence.

But I don't think this necessarily means that literally clay and mud from the ground with worms and bugs in it and maybe grass on it, just took form of a person and then just came alive.

That's just my opinion.

And actually, the idea that people were created from clay can be seen in mythologies that predate Christianity as well.

Creation of life from clay - Wikipedia

Screenshot_20210603-131441~2.png


"In Sumerian mythology, the gods Enki or Enlil create a servant of the gods, humankind, out of clay and blood (see Enki and the Making of Man). In another Sumerian story, both Enki and Ninmah create humans from the clay of the Abzu, the fresh water of the underground. They take turns in creating and decreeing the fate of the humans.[3]" -2500 BCE

As if God was making a sand castle where He flicked out the bugs and pulled the roots out and sat with a chisel or a fine knife and shaped the parts.

Of course people aren't actually made of inorganic sediment. We are made of things like DNA and proteins and organic molecules.

So to take this literal thought of mankind being shaped from soil, I just think it makes more sense to view this figuratively, as to say that God was intimately involved in our creation and was present and active in shaping us. Maybe not literally with clay but in other ways, such as through, that's right, evolution.
 
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Humble_Disciple

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Please notice that I have stated my positions, and have given reasons why I hold to these positions, without attempting to convince anyone that they must also hold these positions.

If you read the words I have to share and the Holy Spirit enables you to believe them, so be it. I can't, on my own, convince you of anything related to spiritual matters.
 
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Taodeching

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Yea I mean, there are different ways to view this.

I tend to view Genesis as being God inspired, but it wasn't necessarily God that wrote Genesis himself.

The author or authors of Genesis were inspired by God and had these ideas about how God was behind the creation of mankind, man and woman. And Genesis has a lot to do with man and woman being of one flash and married to one another and being open and honest and exposed or naked to God and without shame. Whereas man is then later depicted as ashamed of being naked, hiding from God, hiding truth, blaming eve, separated from God and divided in sin.

There are a lot of parable-like values instilled in the book of Genesis. But beyond these particular values I think that the authors who were inspired by God, they may have believed that the beginning of mankind had to begin once with a man and a woman. There had to be a start somewhere at some time that involved the two sexes giving birth, beginning life of the first people. But I wouldn't expect the authors to necessarily have known exactly where or exactly when these individuals existed. And Genesis seems like this effort to express ideas about how God created us, to the best of someone's ability, given that the author didn't necessarily have a time machine to witness it all.

And when we look at y chromosome Adam or mitochondrial Eve, it's not necessarily a direct 1 to 1 match with the book of Genesis. But these concepts are similar in that both Genesis and biology reflect that we do have our origins that go back to distinct individuals. And yes, y chromosome Adam would have had parents and perhaps also brothers and sisters. But I think it's worth noting that this theoretically biological Adam existed. And that mankind at some time, began existing, and that time had to begin with an individual.

And I think that's just what the Author of Genesis wanted to express. That in the beginning, God created and began mankind through an individual, and that God made a woman as well, and through the two, joined in marriage, open and honest before God, began mankind.

The story doesn't have to be literally true with a woman being formed out of a rib bone, or a mans body being formed out of mud like a clay jar, to still clearly reflect truth. Though God forming man out of clay or dust, could also be a way of expressing the concept that God was intimately involved in shaping and forming mankind. Rather than mankind just forming without God's guidance. It just demonstrates Gods presence and activeness in our lives. Rather than God's absence.

But I don't think this necessarily means that literally clay and mud from the ground with worms and bugs in it and maybe grass on it, just took form of a person and then just came alive.

That's just my opinion.

I posted a post about Who Wrote the Bible?
 
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Humble_Disciple

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There are two primary concerns that I have regarding the Book of Genesis, logical consistency and obedience.

It would be logically inconsistent for Adam to be a mythical character, given the New Testament's repeated reference to Adam as the historical father of all humanity, by whom we inherit sin and death.

Also, it would be disobedient if God intended Genesis to be read as literal history, and we decided that we know better than God does.

A literal reading of Genesis, however, doesn't require that we believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, which is why I recommend the book Genesis Unbound by Old Testament scholar John H. Sailhamer:
Genesis Unbound: A Provocative New Look at the Creation Account by John H. Sailhamer
 
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