Believing in the gospel saves. (1 Corinthians 15: 1-4)

Brightfame52 · May 29, 2021

1 Cor 1:18 shows that a person must be in a saved state to believe the Gospel.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Now in contrast to the perishing lost, to whom the Cross preaching is foolishness, to them who are being saved, its the power of God ! Cp Rom 1:16

In 1 Cor 1:18 "us which are saved" is a present tense participle, indicating they are in a saved state, just like Paul was at the time, in a saved state, so he uses the pronoun plural US.

So we must be in a saved state to believe the Gospel, in perfect agreement with the contrast of being in a lost state, the Gospel is hidden resulting in believing not 2 Cor 4:3-4 !

Danthemailman · May 29, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
AT Robertson is a southern Baptist. He is teaching his sects interpretation of scripture. He needs to just read all of the book of Acts and let the Word form his doctrine, instead of what he is doing, letting his personal doctrines influence his exegesis.

AT Robertson is also a Greek scholar who does not agree with your sects interpretation of scripture. It's you who is letting your person doctrines influences your exegesis.

Absolutely not gospel teaching Danthemailman.

You obviously don't understand what it means to BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 1:16) and salvation by "water and works" is not the gospel.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shall CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou SHALT BE SAVED. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the MOUTH CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO SALVATION.
Now Danthemailman your sect interprets MOUTH as not a mouth. And CONFESSING With the mouth as not Confessing with the Mouth.
I'll just read Romans 10:9-10 and believe that confessing with the mouth is what Paul ,Jesus and the example of what the Ethiopian Eunuch did.
You can give your argument to Jesus on judgement day. Tell Him, Lord not everyone has a mouth, some are mute. Therefore I don't need to obey this command.
As far as mutes go. Ever heard of sign language or writing words of paper or an electronic device?
But your not a mute so you are without excuse. Fail to obey His gospel and you will stay in a condition lost without hope.

According to your 5-6 step flawed plan of salvation, someone has already believed and repented, but are still lost until they round up a group of people at Walmart and verbally confess Christ to them. How does that fit with (Acts 3:19; 10:43; 11:17,18; 16:31 etc..?) It doesn't. Also, Romans 10:10 says that confession is made unto salvation and confession precedes water baptism in your 5-6 step plan of salvation. So how can confession be made unto salvation, but you still need to be water baptized afterward in order to be saved? Hmm.. Also, Romans 10:10 says that one believes unto righteousness and faith is accounted as righteousness (Romans 4:5) which means you are saved. But according to your erroneous doctrine, one can believe unto righteousness, yet still remain lost until a verbal confession and water baptism takes place afterwards. See how mixed up your doctrine is?

*So let's try this again. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess - not two separates steps to salvation, but chronologically together. Your false gospel is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics.

Jesus said confession must be PUBLIC!
Matthew 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall CONFESS Me BEFORE MEN, Him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall DENY ME BEFORE MEN, HIM WILL I I ALSO DENY BEFORE MY FATHER IN HEAVEN.

Your misunderstanding turns confession into a work for salvation. In context, this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples continued to speak about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like the Pharisees), I will deny him before my Father in heaven.

Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Jesus as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him. (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6)

The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Jesus three times (Luke 22:56-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.

Now let's see an actual individual obey the gospel and make his public confession,
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD
VERSE 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Phillip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

The gospel is not "water baptized or condemned." You are teaching a "different" gospel. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Again you can say I don't have to be baptized Lord and I don't have to confess you, Lord.

Yet I was water baptized and I have confessed Jesus. Now what? Oh because I'm not actually "trusting" in my baptism and confession to save me as a work for salvation (instead of trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation) then I won't be saved?

But I will just obey the gospel as it was taught in the new testament.
Hear the gospel, Romans 10:17
Believe the gospel, Mark 16:15-16
Repent of my sins, Acts 2:38; Acts 17:30; Acts 3:19
Publicly confess my faith in Christ, Romans 10:9-19; Matthew 10:32-33; Acts 8:37
Be water immersed for the forgiveness of my sins, Mark 16:15-16; Acts 22:16; Acts 2:38; 1Peter 3:20-21; Acts 10:47
Be faithful until death, Revelation 2:10

This is not the gospel, but is a "different" gospel. You twist these passages of scripture which results in works righteousness. Your false gospel is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics and is the "gospel according to Campbellism." In regards to Revelation 2:10, if this verse teaches that we must be "faithful enough" in addition to placing our faith in Christ for salvation, then just "how faithful would you have to be?" Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include ANY number of good works. This verse is meant to be an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. Jesus was not telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" in addition to having faith in Him that they will not receive eternal life. That is salvation by works! The Lord was telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there! In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

This includes doing works of righteousness that come AFTER one obeys the gospel unto salvation. Like worshipping on the first day of the week, Acts 20:28
Not forsake the public assembling of the saints, Hebrews 10:25

Your list of works for salvation just keeps growing. *News flash. We are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5)

Sure does sound similar to Jesus' baptism. And for the same purpose. FOR(EIS) THE REMISSION OF SINS. You Baptist misinterpretation of (EIS) Is never ever because of like you keep asserting. This Greek word only means Towards, in order to obtain, a moving forward never going backward as your misinterpretation of the word, "because of". This is a perversion of the meaning of For(eis) Heres proof you are changing the purpose of baptism in Acts 2:38 and other verses that use eis.

EIS does have different shades of meanings, but as I already explained, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

Matthew 26:28 uses the exact same Greek word EIS as does Acts 2:38

Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for(eis) the remission of sins

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for(eis) the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If the repentance and immersion in Acts 2:38 is as you wrongly interpret the Greek word eis "because of" then JESUS SHED HIS BLOOD BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY SAVED.
Your Baptist sect misinterpretation of for(eis)

Matthew 26:28 My blood...which is shed ...because of the remission of sins
Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized....because of the remission of sins.
Do you still want to continue your incorrect definition of the Greek word for(eis) ?
According to your definition of (eis, for). Jesus shed blood because our sins were already forgiven. Sir, your baptist sect has perverted Gods word to deceive folks like you into believing baptism is not essential to salvation.

This article may help shed some light on the subject for you:

IS SALVATION BY CHRIST or By Baptism? / Bob L. Ross |

Danthemailman · May 29, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
If you want to be silly and stick to your misguided argument about the thief on the cross being saved without being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

My argument is not silly or misguided and the thief on the cross was alive during the ministry of John the Baptist (under the old covenant) who was preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3) which you said means that this baptism was for "in order to obtain" the remission of sins (John's baptism saves) and this was before the new covenant. In your efforts to "get around" the thief on the cross being saved through faith "apart from water baptism" you said that baptism was necessary for salvation under the new covenant, but not under the old covenant and contradicted yourself! You said that Mark 1:4 (under the old covenant) teaches that baptism saves.

Fine, Since it is a fact that the thief on the cross died under of old covenant, the law of Moses.
You could use this silly argument for any old testament character. Moses for example was not baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That is as much proof that baptism is not essential for salvation in the gospel of Jesus Christ as is the thief.

So according to your argument, baptism is not necessary for salvation under the old covenant, but is necessary for salvation under the new covenant? Yet also according to your argument, the thief on the cross died under the old covenant so he did not need to be baptized in order to be saved, yet also still under the old covenant, John the Baptist was teaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, which you said means baptism here is "in order to obtain" the remission of sins. Hmm.. Sounds like a straight up contradiction to me!

I never said the baptism of repentance was for in order to obtain repentance.

So answer my question then. *In Matthew 3:11, was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance or for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance?

Here is the blunder those of the false gospel of sola fide do not realize or just shut their ears to the facts.

This gospel of belief only has a WORK in its gospel.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works , lest any man should boast.

I teach salvation by faith, not works. You teach salvation by faith and works. That is your blunder.

There is only one way to get man completely out of having a part in his salvation. You would have to remove FAITH out of the gospel. That would make your Man does NOTHING in his salvation gospel to be TRUE.

More flawed logic. If faith is just another work, then why did Paul say that we are saved by grace through faith, not works?

You mistakenly come to the wrong conclusion that if man plays a part in his salvation then Jesus did not pay it all.
Gods part: Grace
Mans part: Faith
Will Jesus be able to save us if we have no Faith?

Jesus will not save us apart from faith in Him for salvation because faith is the channel through which God's grace flows. (Romans 5:1-2)

This proves we MUST DO SOMETHING for Jesus to save us. The baptist gospel does not fit Epheasians 2:8-9 or make logical sense when one understands that faith is mans part in salvation.
By Faith being what man DOES it is taught in the Bible as a work. Deny it but it won't change this Biblical fact.

Faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. By choosing to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption to save us). Jesus Christ gets 100% credit for our salvation. Through faith, Christ is still the object of our belief/trust/reliance in receiving salvation and we are simply accepting/receiving the free gift of eternal life. (Romans 6:23) That is not doing something to earn the gift.

1John 3:23-24 And this is His COMMANDMENT, that WE SHOULD BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, and love one another, as He GAVE US COMMANDMENT. And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

Faith is a commandment! I've heard it said many times by Baptist that their ate no commands to obey in the gospel to be saved. Really? 1John 3:23-24 proves that since we obey the command to have faith in Jesus. When we obey this command to have Faith. Faith itself includes OBEDIENCE!!!

Those who "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments abide in Him and He in him. We obey the gospel command by choosing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16; 10:16) and not by obeying a further list of commandments afterwards. That takes us into works salvation. Campbellites try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, but the shoe does not fit. Faith is faith and obedience which "follows" is works.

Just as James said in his book in chapter 2. Faith by itself is dead. But even faith alone by itself is a work of obedience to Gods command.

James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works, (James 2:14) hence "alone." Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6)

Faith is a work but this is not all we must obey in Jesus' gospel.

No, faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to obtain salvation by works. You clearly teach a "different" gospel of salvation by faith + works.

There are more commands to obey in Jesus' gospel. If we refuse to believe in the other commands in Jesus' gospel like baptism we have not obeyed the gospel in its entirety. I can repent of sins, Acts 17:30 but if I do not confess my faith in Christ as did the Eunuch then I have not done all that is required in mans part of the gospel. I have not obeyed the whole gospel.

That's not the whole gospel, but a "different" gospel that is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics. Repentance "change of mind" precedes believing the gospel and water baptism "follows" believing the gospel. (Acts 10:43-47)

Jesus said faith is a work, John 6:28-29 Then said they unto Him, What shall WE DO, that WE MIGHT WORK THE WORKS OF GOD? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the WORK of God, that YE BELIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT.

John 6:29 is simply a play on words by Jesus when he said, "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So Jesus was not saying that believing is just "another work," which would contradict Ephesians 2:8,9. *Note the distinction between faith and works - "saved through faith, not works."

Jesus told them how to do the work of God. He told them to BELIEVE in Him! God does not do the believing for you. We do the work of God when we believe, have Faith. Faith is a work.

We choose to believe and once again, believing is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to obtain salvation by works. Saved through faith, not works. Even James makes a distinction between faith and works. You basically define faith "as" works. What a mess!

Epheasians 2:8-9 ...not of works lest any man should boast. What kind of works would make a man boast? Meritorious works! Eaning salvation!
These meritorious works are not in the gospel.
Does faith cause you to earn your salvation?
Does repentance cause you to earn your salvation?
Does confession cause you to earn your salvation?
Does baptism cause you to earn your salvation?
All the works in the gospel to be saved are works of obedience never of merit.

According to your 5-6 step gospel plan, works are meritorious for obtaining salvation no matter how much you try and sugar coat it.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God
Epheasians 2:8-9 ....not of works lest any man should boast

Both verses teaching the same meritorious works that do not save anyone!

Yet you still teach salvation by works anyway.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
What kind of works justify us and not faith alone? Works of submission to Jesus' commands, works of OBEDIENCE.
Works of obedience:
Belief
Repentance
Confession
Baptism

So you teach that we are saved by faith + works of obedience that "follow" faith. This is smoke and mirrors - works salvation. Bad semantics, flawed hermeneutics.

After salvation, works of obedience and works of righteousness. But never works of merit lest man should boast.

If there are works of obedience that must be accomplished "after" we believe the gospel/place faith in Christ for salvation, then these works become works of merit and once again, we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5) When is that finally going to sink in?

I believe in Epheasians 2:8-9. It is you who does not understand nor believe and fully trust in Jesus and His word.

That statement is the epitome of irony!

Titus Dorn · May 29, 2021

Danthemailman said:
My argument is not silly or misguided and the thief on the cross was alive during the ministry of John the Baptist (under the old covenant) who was preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3) which you said means that this baptism was for "in order to obtain" the remission of sins (John's baptism saves) and this was before the new covenant. In your efforts to "get around" the thief on the cross being saved through faith "apart from water baptism" you said that baptism was necessary for salvation under the new covenant, but not under the old covenant and contradicted yourself! You said that Mark 1:4 (under the old covenant) teaches that baptism saves.

You misunderstood. You missed a very important detail in water baptism under the old covenant, and the new covenant, the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Let's not forget your whole point for bringing up the thief on the cross. You trying to use the thief as proof that we do not need to be baptized.
I've already proven the thief was saved by Jesus under the old covenant. Not under the new covenant where the gospel of Jesus Christ was in force.
The fact that John's baptism was in fact for the remission of sins just as Jesus baptism is for the remission of sins helps my position not yours.

Even in the old covenant water baptism was being practiced TO SAVE THE JEWS

Water baptism SAVED in the old testament and NOW SAVES US in the new testament.

So where does that leave Dan the mail man's belief that we do not get water immersed to be saved?

Looks real bad for you Dan and your sects false teachings.

The detail you missed was simple.
1. John's baptism
2.Jesus' baptism

No one gets baptized under the old covenant By Jesus' baptism.
Only John the Baptist's baptism.
Jesus gospel: we are baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

Under the old law: Jews were baptized BY JOHN'S BAPTISM, the baptism of REPENTANCE.

We have no way of certainty to know if the thief on the cross was baptized for the remission of sins by John the baptist or refused John's baptism.

If he was baptized it disproves your argument that we don't need baptism to be saved.

If he refused John's baptism, it proves that he was still by DIRECTLY BY JESUS TELLING HIMNHE WAS SAVED.

It is a terrible argument to make that the thief was not baptized and was saved. WHEN WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF HE WAS OR WAS NOT BAPTIZED BY JOHN.

You loose both ways. You have a poor argument.

Since the thief was saved before Jesus' gospel came into force.

This proves that the thief WAS NEVER REQUIRED TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

So know you are wrong once again. I did not contradict myself.

Danthemailman said:
James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works, (James 2:14) hence "alone." Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6)

Your faith is faith alone. You and your sect are the very ones James is teaching about. You have the faith that is dead, cannot save. A faith that has no works(obedience). It is dead as a corpse without a soul, James 2:26 for as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

You make an error when you try to define faith alone as a faith that has trust in Jesus. Wrong faith alone is what demons have. No trust, no works, justva dead faith.
James 2:You believe there is one God. You do well, Even the demons believe(faith alone) and tremble.

Your faith alone is dead without trust or works.
Mark 16:15-16 And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

If your faith had trust in Jesus, then you would trust God in how He has chosen to save us by Belief, repentance, confession, immersion.
But you do not trust Jesus' gospel His words. Instead you tell God how He is to save you! You created your own false gospel of believism. Nowhere in Mark 16:16 does Jesus teach your false gospel for Jesus teaches we are saved by NOTHING ALONE.

Here is the silly misinterpretation of the Baptists sect of Jesus' word in Mark 16:15-16 used in other applications.

He that eateth his food and digesteth shall live; but he that eateth not shall die.

Now Danthemailman's sects false teaching of Mark 16:16 Applied to other grammar.

He that eateth and digesteth NOT shall live; but he that eateth not shall die.

Now this Baptist sect will twist the words of Jesus in Mark 16:15-16

He who believes and is NOT baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Jesus spoke of those who would not put the faith in His word. Matthew 7:21-22 Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord, SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. BUT HE WHO DOES, DOES, DOES, THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord , Lord have we not prophesied in Your Name, cast out demons in Your name and done many wonders in Your name?
Verse 23 And I will declare to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTISE LAWLESSNESS!!!
Any "church" that tells you you don't have to obey Gods laws to be saved like the Faith alone with no obedience to Jesus' commands to be baptized. Are not trusting in Jesus' gospel but are trusting in themselves. And are practicing LAWLESSNESS.

Danthemailman said:
So you teach that we are saved by faith + works of obedience that "follow" faith. This is smoke and mirrors - works salvation. Bad semantics, flawed hermeneutics.

Danthemailman said:
If there are works of obedience that must be accomplished "after" we believe the gospel/place faith in Christ for salvation, then these works become works of merit and once again, we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5) When is that finally going to sink in?

What is true irony is the protestant churches that contradict themselves when they teach we are not saved BY ANY WORKS AT ALL. Only by Faith alone.
The big irony of this false teaching is FAITH ITSELF IS A WORK THAT MAN MUST DO AS A ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENT TO BE SAVED BY GODS GRACE.

There is only one way to get works of obedience not merit out of Gods plan of salvation: YOU MUST REMOVE FAITH!!!

You are ignorant of the different kinds of works in the Bible. You baptists think every kind of work is a DIRTY WORD. Paul did not view works in Jesus' gospel as a negative but as a MUST and very positive.

Examples of works:

You mentioned works of righteousness. We are not saved by works of righteousness. We are saved by works of obedience to Jesus gospel unto salvation.

Works of righteousness:Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. We are not saved by these works ever!

Works of obedience: 1Thessalonians 1:3 remembering without ceasing YOUR WORK OF FAITH, labor of love and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in sight of our God and Father, These works save us but not directly. When we obey Jesus' gospel by repentance confession and baptism. God then gives us His grace where we access the soul cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. God saves us by an Obedient Faith. Never faith alone. Its dead.

Do we then continue in doing works of obedience after we are saved to stay saved? Absolutely but just as these works are not meritorious in salvation, they are not meritorious in our daily walk with God.

How is this not earning salvation? Simple just as God requires faith(mans part) in saving us. He continues to require our part in keeping us saved. There are conditions given by God to be saved.
If there were no conditions to receive Gods grace, then everyone is going to heaven.

Example of obedient works we must do after we are saved: We are commanded by God to worship on the first day of the week: Hebrews 10:25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, exhorting one another and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
Acts 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

We must forgive our brothers: this is a work of love,
1John 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. This verse proves that without obedient works of love, christians will be lost eternally.

1John 4:21 And this COMMANDMENT we have from Him: that he who loves God MUST love his brother also.

1John 2:3-4 Now by this we know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He who says, I know Him and does not keep His commandments IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM
VERSE 5 But whoever keeps His WORD truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

Danthemailman · May 29, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
You misunderstood. You missed a very important detail in water baptism under the old covenant, and the new covenant, the gospel of Jesus Christ.

These posts are getting too long and we need to focus on one or two points at a time. Water baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation under the old covenant or under the new covenant. That's the point that matters. (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43-47; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 15:1-4 etc..).

Let's not forget your whole point for bringing up the thief on the cross. You trying to use the thief as proof that we do not need to be baptized.
I've already proven the thief was saved by Jesus under the old covenant. Not under the new covenant where the gospel of Jesus Christ was in force.
The fact that John's baptism was in fact for the remission of sins just as Jesus baptism is for the remission of sins helps my position not yours.

The thief was saved through faith "apart from water baptism" and regardless of what you believe was in force or not in force, baptism does not save under the old or new covenant, so according to your erroneous position, the thief was not saved.

Even in the old covenant water baptism was being practiced TO SAVE THE JEWS

False. You would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water.

Water baptism SAVED in the old testament and NOW SAVES US in the new testament.

False and it did not save the thief on the cross, so your argument is moot.

So where does that leave Dan the mail man's belief that we do not get water immersed to be saved?

It leaves man saved through faith apart from works, as scripture states. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

Looks real bad for you Dan and your sects false teachings.

The detail you missed was simple.
1. John's baptism
2.Jesus' baptism

No one gets baptized under the old covenant By Jesus' baptism.
Only John the Baptist's baptism.
Jesus gospel: we are baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

Under the old law: Jews were baptized BY JOHN'S BAPTISM, the baptism of REPENTANCE.

We have no way of certainty to know if the thief on the cross was baptized for the remission of sins by John the baptist or refused John's baptism.

If he was baptized it disproves your argument that we don't need baptism to be saved.

If he refused John's baptism, it proves that he was still by DIRECTLY BY JESUS TELLING HIMNHE WAS SAVED.

It is a terrible argument to make that the thief was not baptized and was saved. WHEN WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF HE WAS OR WAS NOT BAPTIZED BY JOHN.

You loose both ways. You have a poor argument.

Since the thief was saved before Jesus' gospel came into force.

This proves that the thief WAS NEVER REQUIRED TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

So know you are wrong once again. I did not contradict myself.

You have contradicted yourself. The thief was unable to receive water baptism, yet was saved through faith apart from water baptism, so you are wrong. So now you believe the thief may have been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely) In Matthew 27, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:40-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized.

Your faith is faith alone.

My faith is faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Your faith is not in Christ alone for salvation, but is in works.

You and your sect are the very ones James is teaching about. You have the faith that is dead, cannot save. A faith that has no works (obedience). It is dead as a corpse without a soul, James 2:26 for as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

My faith is not dead and is not without works (obedience). This is a straw man argument and is also slander. As I already previously explained, in James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

You make an error when you try to define faith alone as a faith that has trust in Jesus. Wrong faith alone is what demons have. No trust, no works, justva dead faith.
James 2:You believe there is one God. You do well, Even the demons believe(faith alone) and tremble.

False. Demons don't trust in Jesus. They trust in Satan. They believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they don't believe in/have faith in Christ for salvation. They do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

Your faith alone is dead without trust or works.
Mark 16:15-16 And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

If your faith had trust in Jesus, then you would trust God in how He has chosen to save us by Belief, repentance, confession, immersion. But you do not trust Jesus' gospel His words. Instead you tell God how He is to save you! You created your own false gospel of believism. Nowhere in Mark 16:16 does Jesus teach your false gospel for Jesus teaches we are saved by NOTHING ALONE.

I already throughly explained Mark 16:16 to you multiple times, but you just don't have ears to hear. You don't seem interested in seriously considering what I have to say, but are only interested in your next opportunity to speak.

Jesus spoke of those who would not put the faith in His word. Matthew 7:21-22 Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord, SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. BUT HE WHO DOES, DOES, DOES, THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord , Lord have we not prophesied in Your Name, cast out demons in Your name and done many wonders in Your name?
Verse 23 And I will declare to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTISE LAWLESSNESS!!!
Any "church" that tells you you don't have to obey Gods laws to be saved like the Faith alone with no obedience to Jesus' commands to be baptized. Are not trusting in Jesus' gospel but are trusting in themselves. And are practicing LAWLESSNESS.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. *John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Sound familiar? Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father. Genuine believers do not practice lawlessness, but righteousness.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts. *Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on works. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ.

Works of obedience: 1Thessalonians 1:3 remembering without ceasing YOUR WORK OF FAITH, labor of love and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in sight of our God and Father, These works save us but not directly. When we obey Jesus' gospel by repentance confession and baptism. God then gives us His grace where we access the soul cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. God saves us by an Obedient Faith. Never faith alone. Its dead.

You turn salvation by repentance, confession and baptism into works salvation. Like I said before, your false gospel is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics.

In regards to 1 Thessalonians 1:3, notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope in 1 Thessalonians 1:3. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished or that we are saved by works that are produced out of faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" faith. I've heard works-salvationists try to turn work "of" faith into this work "is" faith and end up making no distinction between faith and works that follow as a result of faith.

I can tell that your indoctrination into Campbellism runs so deep that I am most likely just wasting my time beating a dead horse. You have even resorted to slander. Just to let you know, I at one time had temporarily attended the church of Christ several years ago, so none of your arguments that support your "works based" false gospel are anything new or enlightening. Let me know when you ready to seriously consider the truth.

Titus Dorn · May 29, 2021

Guojing said:
So if I don't do "works in the new law of Christ," my faith won't save me?

Is that what you believe Paul is saying?

Not in the sense that your working to earn salvation. That would send a man straight into hell if he tried to earn eternal life.

Remember friend, True Biblical saving faith is an obedient faith.

Since faith by itself is a work that we do. It is impossible to get works out if the gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved.

This shows how sola fide is actually a made up false doctrine concocted in the minds of 1600th century men who were protesting the catholic church.

The reformation in Europe was truly sad times for true christianity. Not only is Catholicism a false doctrine from the Devil. Protestant denominationalism is also a WORK of the Devil.

Before this mess of catholism and protestantism began there was ONE church. It was the Lords church. The one you read about in your new testament.
Friend, when the Lords church began in the first century. How many sects, denominations do you think there were?
NONE, ZERO!!

There was the Lords church. And all the confusion today about which church which denomination is the true church was much less confusing. Sure there were the gnostics. But the Bible makes it clear that they were not the true followers of God. And yes the Bible does record division which is denominations in the first century but GODS WORD CONDEMNS IT.

1Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no DIVISIONS among you but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement.

Paul condemned denominations which are divisions, sects of the church. When you divide the Lords church you have now created a worldly church that has man as the head and not Jesus. All those in these churches and cults are going into hell.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet and gave Him to be HEAD over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all

Only an obedient faith can save you friend.
But don't get deceived by false teachers, faith nor Grace nor anything ALONE can save you.

The gospel has many things that save us.
We are saved by preaching: 1Corinthians 1:21 for since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message PREACHED TO SAVE THOSE WHO BELIEVE
If something other than faith can save us, then it cannot be by faith alone.

Water baptism saves us, 1Peter 3:20-21 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared in which a few that is, eight souls, were saved through WATER. There is also an antitype WHICH NOW SAVES US-BAPTISM (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the ressurection of Jesus Christ.
Since, baptism cleary saves us, it cannot be faith alone.

Many things play a part in our salvation faith is just one of them.

Obedience saves us, Hebrews 5:8-9 though he was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author OF ETERNAL SALVATION TO ALL WHO OBEY HIM,

Sola fide is not Biblical at all. Martin Luther added the word alone to the Bible for his new "gospel" that he made up.

Did you know that Martin Luther wanted the books of James and Hevrews removed from the Bible?

Did you know that he tried to get these books removed but failed?

Yet all these people in protestant faith alone churches today do not know that the doctrines that they have been deceived into believing are from very wicked men like Martin Luther and John Calvin.

Did you know that John Calvin was a murderer?
He killed those who opposed his false teachings. Does that sound like a true Christian to you? Why would any one want to follow these wicked men? We should only be following Christ and His teaching ALONE.

Here is more evidence that saving faith is an action that we do not just think.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him
Do you understand that saving faith is not alone? It must be an OBEDIENT FAITH.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe(does not obey) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Again do you understand that Biblical faith is an OBEDIENT FAITH?

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not OBEY? So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF
Do you see in these two verses how Fath and obedience equate?

Numbers 21:6-8
So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Isreal died. Therefore the people came to Moses and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that he take away the serpents from us. So Moses prayed for the people. Then the Lord said to Moses, Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when they look at it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent he lived.
Now this story teaches us what real Biblical saving faith is. Do you see their ACTIONS SAVED THEM?
Imagine if they only had Faith alone? Moses says to the Israelites "Look at the bronze serpent on the pole I have made and you all will live" Now here is faith alone:
"Oh, no Moses we will not look at the bronze serpent on the pole because that would be a WORK and we are saved by belief only."
You see their faith saved them because they put their faith into ACTION! They obeyed the command to look at the serpent on the pole!!!

We must do the same today if God is going to save us! We also must do as God has commanded us in His gospel.

Now here is a perfect example of faith alone. It cannot save these Jews and it cannot save you or anyone.

John 12:42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many BELIEVED IN HIM, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they LOVED the praise of MEN more than than the praise of GOD
These Jewish rulers HAD FAITH IN JESUS THEY BELIEVED! But were they saved by their Faith Alone?
No, they were lost with their faith because they loved men more than they loved Jesus. They would not confess Jesus publicly. They would not confess their FAITH! They did not have an obedient faith.
Matthew 10:32-33 Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him will I also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But WHOEVER DENIES ME BEFORE MEN, Him will I also DENY BEFORE MY FATHER IN HEAVEN
Faith alone cannot save it is a dead faith, James 2:19-26

Titus Dorn · May 29, 2021

Danthemailman said:
These posts are getting too long and we need to focus on one or two points at a time. Water baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation under the old covenant or under the new covenant. That's the point that matters. (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43-47; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 15:1-4 etc..).

Oh, so now water baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation. I see your wishy washy.

Here is the point that matters that everyone must get or they will die in their sins. Baptism is a direct command from Jesus making it a must. It is essential to ones salvation. Baptism is commanded TO THE LOST NEVER TO THE SAVED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. Why is that?

Why not one account of any new testament Christian being told by one of the apostles to be baptized?

Why is it that as soon as someone was taught the gospel, THEY WERE BAPTIZED IMMEDIATELY. Why is that?

Baptist will get baptized whenever they "feel" like it. Maybe today, tomorrow .

True story: a man was raised by Baptist parents. When the boy turned 10 a pastor asked him if he was saved. The boy said "I don't know" The pastor replied: "Son all you have to do is believe in Jesus and He will save you" the boy thought about what he said. And realized that he was a believer. So he went up to the pastor and said. "I believe I'm saved" When the boy turned into a teenager his mother asked if he wanted to be water baptized. The boy asked his mother a good question: "Mom, do I have to be baptized?"
His mother said, well, NO but Jesus wants you to be baptized. So the boy asked his mother: " can I get to heaven without being baptized?" His mother said sure but why would you not want too? The boy told his mother that HE DID NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING THAT WAS NOT NECESSARY TO GET TO HEAVEN. That is a true story.

Do I need to join a Baptist church to be saved?

Did the baptism of John the baptist save the apostles when they were baptized by him? Mark 1:4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS

Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS

Now what does this verse mean? Does it mean Jesus shed His blood for forgiveness of our sins? You and I both know the correct answer.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Now let's see if a Baptist can answer this question honestly for a change. Do we repent and get baptized, FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS?

Titus Dorn · May 29, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Your misunderstanding turns confession into a work for salvation. In context, this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples continued to speak about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like the Pharisees), I will deny him before my Father in heaven.

Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Jesus as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him. (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6)

The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Jesus three times (Luke 22:56-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.

Confession is a command.This is a fact that you have completely ignored
Romans 10:9-10 That IF you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto SALVATION.

1John 4 :15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God.
This verse in 1John is speaking to CHRISTIANS. And Paul is teaching that these christians confessed their faith in Jesus in obedience to that command to be saved.
1John 4:14-15
And we have seen and TESTIFY that the Father has sent the Son of God as the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God.
This confession was done by all the christians in the first century to be saved. Jesus did confirm that confession is a direct command and that it is a requirement to obtain salvation.
Eunuch confessed his faith in Christ while obeying the gospel. In your perverted version of the gospel this is NOT supposed to occur because there cannot be any works in salvation. Again you can take up your objections with Jesus' commandments in His gospel with Him in judgement.
Acts 8:37 Then Philip said, If you believe with all your heart you may. And he answered and SAID, I BELIEVE, THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.

Now what if the Eunuch did not publicly confess his faith in Christ? Does what Jesus teach about confessing Him before men apply to the Eunuch and to Jesus' direct command to confession in Romans 10:9-10? Can confession not really be a spoken confession with the mouth? Not according to the example God gives us in the conversion of the Ethiopian Eunuch. And not according to Romans 10:9-10 or 1John 4:14-15. Therefore Jesus' teaching about confessing Him before men in Matthew 10:32-33 must be taken literally as a spoken confession of faith and a command for All.
Matthew 10:32-33 Therefore WHOEVER confesses Me before men. Him I will also confess before My Father in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father in heaven.
You reject this not because it is not scriptural but because it does not fit with Baptist sectarian doctrine.
I will believe the example and testamony of my brother in Christ, the Ethiopian Eunuch and trust in Jesus words, Matthew 10:32-33

Guojing · May 29, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
Not in the sense that your working to earn salvation. That would send a man straight into hell if he tried to earn eternal life.

Remember friend, True Biblical saving faith is an obedient faith.

Since faith by itself is a work that we do. It is impossible to get works out if the gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved.

This shows how sola fide is actually a made up false doctrine concocted in the minds of 1600th century men who were protesting the catholic church.

The reformation in Europe was truly sad times for true christianity. Not only is Catholicism a false doctrine from the Devil. Protestant denominationalism is also a WORK of the Devil.

Before this mess of catholism and protestantism began there was ONE church. It was the Lords church. The one you read about in your new testament.
Friend, when the Lords church began in the first century. How many sects, denominations do you think there were?
NONE, ZERO!!

There was the Lords church. And all the confusion today about which church which denomination is the true church was much less confusing. Sure there were the gnostics. But the Bible makes it clear that they were not the true followers of God. And yes the Bible does record division which is denominations in the first century but GODS WORD CONDEMNS IT.

1Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no DIVISIONS among you but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement.

Paul condemned denominations which are divisions, sects of the church. When you divide the Lords church you have now created a worldly church that has man as the head and not Jesus. All those in these churches and cults are going into hell.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet and gave Him to be HEAD over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all

Only an obedient faith can save you friend.
But don't get deceived by false teachers, faith nor Grace nor anything ALONE can save you.

The gospel has many things that save us.
We are saved by preaching: 1Corinthians 1:21 for since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message PREACHED TO SAVE THOSE WHO BELIEVE
If something other than faith can save us, then it cannot be by faith alone.

Water baptism saves us, 1Peter 3:20-21 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared in which a few that is, eight souls, were saved through WATER. There is also an antitype WHICH NOW SAVES US-BAPTISM (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the ressurection of Jesus Christ.
Since, baptism cleary saves us, it cannot be faith alone.

Many things play a part in our salvation faith is just one of them.

Obedience saves us, Hebrews 5:8-9 though he was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author OF ETERNAL SALVATION TO ALL WHO OBEY HIM,

Sola fide is not Biblical at all. Martin Luther added the word alone to the Bible for his new "gospel" that he made up.

Did you know that Martin Luther wanted the books of James and Hevrews removed from the Bible?

Did you know that he tried to get these books removed but failed?

Yet all these people in protestant faith alone churches today do not know that the doctrines that they have been deceived into believing are from very wicked men like Martin Luther and John Calvin.

Did you know that John Calvin was a murderer?
He killed those who opposed his false teachings. Does that sound like a true Christian to you? Why would any one want to follow these wicked men? We should only be following Christ and His teaching ALONE.

Here is more evidence that saving faith is an action that we do not just think.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him
Do you understand that saving faith is not alone? It must be an OBEDIENT FAITH.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe(does not obey) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Again do you understand that Biblical faith is an OBEDIENT FAITH?

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not OBEY? So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF
Do you see in these two verses how Fath and obedience equate?

Numbers 21:6-8
So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Isreal died. Therefore the people came to Moses and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that he take away the serpents from us. So Moses prayed for the people. Then the Lord said to Moses, Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when they look at it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent he lived.
Now this story teaches us what real Biblical saving faith is. Do you see their ACTIONS SAVED THEM?
Imagine if they only had Faith alone? Moses says to the Israelites "Look at the bronze serpent on the pole I have made and you all will live" Now here is faith alone:
"Oh, no Moses we will not look at the bronze serpent on the pole because that would be a WORK and we are saved by belief only."
You see their faith saved them because they put their faith into ACTION! They obeyed the command to look at the serpent on the pole!!!

We must do the same today if God is going to save us! We also must do as God has commanded us in His gospel.

Now here is a perfect example of faith alone. It cannot save these Jews and it cannot save you or anyone.

John 12:42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many BELIEVED IN HIM, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they LOVED the praise of MEN more than than the praise of GOD
These Jewish rulers HAD FAITH IN JESUS THEY BELIEVED! But were they saved by their Faith Alone?
No, they were lost with their faith because they loved men more than they loved Jesus. They would not confess Jesus publicly. They would not confess their FAITH! They did not have an obedient faith.
Matthew 10:32-33 Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him will I also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But WHOEVER DENIES ME BEFORE MEN, Him will I also DENY BEFORE MY FATHER IN HEAVEN
Faith alone cannot save it is a dead faith, James 2:19-26

Alright then, thanks for clarifying what you believed in.

Clare73 · May 29, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
Not in the sense that your working to earn salvation. That would send a man straight into hell if he tried to earn eternal life.
Remember friend, True Biblical saving faith is an obedient faith.
Since faith by itself is a work that we do. It is impossible to get works out if the gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved.

Works are performance. . .faith is not a work.

This shows how sola fide is actually a made up false doctrine concocted in the minds of 1600th century men who were protesting the catholic church.

The reformation in Europe was truly sad times for true christianity. Not only is Catholicism a false doctrine from the Devil. Protestant denominationalism is also a WORK of the Devil.

Before this mess of catholism and protestantism began there was ONE church. It was the Lords church. The one you read about in your new testament.
Friend, when the Lords church began in the first century. How many sects, denominations do you think there were?
NONE, ZERO!!

There was the Lords church. And all the confusion today about which church which denomination is the true church was much less confusing. Sure there were the gnostics. But the Bible makes it clear that they were not the true followers of God. And yes the Bible does record division which is denominations in the first century but GODS WORD CONDEMNS IT.

1Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no DIVISIONS among you but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement.

Paul condemned denominations which are divisions, sects of the church. When you divide the Lords church you have now created a worldly church that has man as the head and not Jesus. All those in these churches and cults are going into hell.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet and gave Him to be HEAD over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all

Only an obedient faith can save you friend.
But don't get deceived by false teachers, faith nor Grace nor anything ALONE can save you.

The gospel has many things that save us.
We are saved by preaching: 1Corinthians 1:21 for since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message PREACHED TO SAVE THOSE WHO BELIEVE
If something other than faith can save us, then it cannot be by faith alone.

Water baptism saves us, 1Peter 3:20-21 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared in which a few that is, eight souls, were saved through WATER. There is also an antitype WHICH NOW SAVES US-BAPTISM (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the ressurection of Jesus Christ.
Since, baptism cleary saves us, it cannot be faith alone.

Many things play a part in our salvation faith is just one of them.

Obedience saves us, Hebrews 5:8-9 though he was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author OF ETERNAL SALVATION TO ALL WHO OBEY HIM,

Sola fide is not Biblical at all. Martin Luther added the word alone to the Bible for his new "gospel" that he made up.

Did you know that Martin Luther wanted the books of James and Hevrews removed from the Bible?

Did you know that he tried to get these books removed but failed?

Yet all these people in protestant faith alone churches today do not know that the doctrines that they have been deceived into believing are from very wicked men like Martin Luther and John Calvin.

Did you know that John Calvin was a murderer?
He killed those who opposed his false teachings. Does that sound like a true Christian to you? Why would any one want to follow these wicked men? We should only be following Christ and His teaching ALONE.

Here is more evidence that saving faith is an action that we do not just think.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him
Do you understand that saving faith is not alone? It must be an OBEDIENT FAITH.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe(does not obey) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Again do you understand that Biblical faith is an OBEDIENT FAITH?

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not OBEY? So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF
Do you see in these two verses how Fath and obedience equate?

Numbers 21:6-8
So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Isreal died. Therefore the people came to Moses and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that he take away the serpents from us. So Moses prayed for the people. Then the Lord said to Moses, Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when they look at it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent he lived.
Now this story teaches us what real Biblical saving faith is. Do you see their ACTIONS SAVED THEM?
Imagine if they only had Faith alone? Moses says to the Israelites "Look at the bronze serpent on the pole I have made and you all will live" Now here is faith alone:
"Oh, no Moses we will not look at the bronze serpent on the pole because that would be a WORK and we are saved by belief only."
You see their faith saved them because they put their faith into ACTION! They obeyed the command to look at the serpent on the pole!!!

We must do the same today if God is going to save us! We also must do as God has commanded us in His gospel.

Now here is a perfect example of faith alone. It cannot save these Jews and it cannot save you or anyone.

John 12:42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many BELIEVED IN HIM, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they LOVED the praise of MEN more than than the praise of GOD
These Jewish rulers HAD FAITH IN JESUS THEY BELIEVED! But were they saved by their Faith Alone?
No, they were lost with their faith because they loved men more than they loved Jesus. They would not confess Jesus publicly. They would not confess their FAITH! They did not have an obedient faith.
Matthew 10:32-33 Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him will I also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But WHOEVER DENIES ME BEFORE MEN, Him will I also DENY BEFORE MY FATHER IN HEAVEN
Faith alone cannot save it is a dead faith, James 2:19-26

Titus Dorn · May 29, 2021

Guojing said:
Alright then, thanks for clarifying what you believed in.

Thank you for reading and I hope we can discuss more on what must we do to be saved. Please read and study about the murders of John Calvin and Martin Luther's attempt to remove the book of James and Hebrews from the Bible.

Guojing · May 29, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
Thank you for reading and I hope we can discuss more on what must we do to be saved. Please read and study about the murders of John Calvin and Martin Luther's attempt to remove the book of James and Hebrews from the Bible.

There are basically 3 types of salvation beliefs that I see being discussed in Christian forums

Salvation is by faith alone apart from works.
Salvation is by faith and works
Salvation is by faith at the beginning, but if there is no works after that, it shows your faith is dead and thus you are not saved.

The 2nd is what I will call "front-loading" works while the 3rd is what I will call "back-loading" works.

Titus Dorn · May 29, 2021

Guojing said:
There are basically 3 types of salvation beliefs that I see being discussed in Christian forums

Salvation is by faith alone apart from works.

Salvation is by faith and works

Salvation is by faith at the beginning, but if there is no works after that, it shows your faith is dead and thus you are not saved.

The 2nd is what I will call "front-loading" works while the 3rd is what I will call "back-loading" works.

Would you define what is faith alone.
And can you give me scripture for "back loading works" and "front loading works".

Guojing · May 29, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
Would you define what is faith alone.
And can you give me scripture for "back loading works" and "front loading works".

Faith alone is Romans 4:5.

There is no scripture for those 2 terms, but its just a way to distinguish between the 2nd and 3rd belief.

I believe your belief regarding salvation is the second one, correct?

Titus Dorn · May 29, 2021

Guojing said:
Faith alone is Romans 4:5.

There is no scripture for those 2 terms, but its just a way to distinguish between the 2nd and 3rd belief.

I believe your belief regarding salvation is the second one, correct?

Well without you giving me a more specific meaning of what 2. And 3. Means regarding faith. I should not say that I believe in one or the other to be faith.
I really would like to know how you define faith alone. And why do you use Romans 4:5 as an example of faith alone?

Titus Dorn · May 29, 2021

Guojing said:
Faith alone is Romans 4:5.

There is no scripture for those 2 terms, but its just a way to distinguish between the 2nd and 3rd belief.

I believe your belief regarding salvation is the second one, correct?

I live in Indiana it is late, time for rest. I'll check, if you give any more posts tomorrow and try to answer. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Guojing · May 29, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
Well without you giving me a more specific meaning of what 2. And 3. Means regarding faith. I should not say that I believe in one or the other to be faith.
I really would like to know how you define faith alone. And why do you use Romans 4:5 as an example of faith alone?

From your postings in this thread, you are definitely not 1. As to whether it is 2 or 3, only you can confirm that.

As I said, Romans 4:5 defines belief without works as faith. That is how faith saves us today in the Body of Christ.

Danthemailman · May 30, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
Oh, so now water baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation. I see your wishy washy.

All along I have been saying that water baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation, which is not being wishy washy. Are you completely reading my posts or just skimming over them?

Here is the point that matters that everyone must get or they will die in their sins. Baptism is a direct command from Jesus making it a must. It is essential to ones salvation. Baptism is commanded TO THE LOST NEVER TO THE SAVED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. Why is that?

In John 8:24, Jesus said - "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." Now show me in scripture where Jesus said, "unless you are water baptized, you will die in your sins" or "whoever is not baptized will be condemned." I'll be waiting.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Baptism is a command for the saved, not the lost. Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

*So did the command for these Gentiles to be baptized "precede" or "follow" these Gentiles believing in Him, receiving remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gift of tongues? To say other than "follow" is to be completely dishonest.

Why not one account of any new testament Christian being told by one of the apostles to be baptized?

The Bible makes clear that men are saved through belief/faith prior to receiving water baptism. These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues (which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being baptized. (Acts 10:44-47) This observation needs to be properly balanced by the fact that baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles. It was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey, yet it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ to receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

Baptism is the expected initial outward response to the gospel, but it is not a part of the gospel itself (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4). There are a handful of alleged proof texts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. Yet a careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, although they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts only prove that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, (signified) rather than absolutely required for salvation.

Why is it that as soon as someone was taught the gospel, THEY WERE BAPTIZED IMMEDIATELY. Why is that?

Why not? Immediately if water if available, within the same day if possible. For me I believed the gospel and was saved on Saturday late at night at my home, but was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. I didn't wait a week or a month or a year.

Baptist will get baptized whenever they "feel" like it. Maybe today, tomorrow.

I can't speak for everyone, but in most conversions that I have witnessed, the converts received water baptism by the following Sunday at church. You seem to enjoy picking on Baptists, yet I attend a non-denominational church that is not officially Baptist.

True story: a man was raised by Baptist parents. When the boy turned 10 a pastor asked him if he was saved. The boy said "I don't know" The pastor replied: "Son all you have to do is believe in Jesus and He will save you" the boy thought about what he said. And realized that he was a believer. So he went up to the pastor and said. "I believe I'm saved" When the boy turned into a teenager his mother asked if he wanted to be water baptized. The boy asked his mother a good question: "Mom, do I have to be baptized?" His mother said, well, NO but Jesus wants you to be baptized. So the boy asked his mother: " can I get to heaven without being baptized?" His mother said sure but why would you not want too? The boy told his mother that HE DID NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING THAT WAS NOT NECESSARY TO GET TO HEAVEN. That is a true story.

Do I need to join a Baptist church to be saved?

Joining a particular church, whether Baptist, Catholic, church of Christ etc.. is not what saves you. Believing the gospel saves you. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16)

I have a true story for you. Several years ago, my friend and his Aunt invited me to attend the church of Christ with them. His Aunt was a very devout and thoroughly indoctrinated member of the church of Christ. I did attend for a short while and I'll never forget several years later running into my friend's Aunt at my friend's daughter's birthday party. Since then, I had received Christ through faith and was now a born again Christian. I shared this good news with his Aunt and the only response she had for me was, "where do you attend church?" When my answer was not "the church of Christ," she bowed her head in sadness as if to imply that I was still lost because I did not say, "the church of Christ."

A little later, her husband approached me and I shared the good news with him as well, but the only response that he had for me was the same, "where do you attend church," and when I told him and the answer was not the church of Christ, his eyes glazed over followed by a cheesy legalistic grin on his face and he simply walked away from me and neither of them would speak with me for the rest of the night. I knew that something was terribly wrong! I could hear them both over in the corner going on and on about "salvation by water baptism" and that "ONLY" the church of Christ is the "true church." I quickly came to realize they were deceived!

Did the baptism of John the baptist save the apostles when they were baptized by him? Mark 1:4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS

No. This baptism of repentance was for "in regards to/on the basis of" the remission of sins received upon repentance. The apostles were saved when they believed in Him. (John 3:15,16,18) In John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. Hmm.. *What happened to baptism?

Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS

Again, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis, so your argument here in regards to Matthew 26:18 is moot.

In Matthew 26:26-28, Jesus said, "This IS my body when He took the bread." When He took the cup, He said, "This IS my blood." Of course, His body was still His body and His blood was still in His body. He was using attributing the reality to the emblem, yet the emblem is not the reality. When a believer is water baptized, sins are not washed away literally, but ceremonially, pointing to the death of Christ by which sins are actually washed away.

Since it's not possible for an external ordinance to do an internal work on the heart, baptism can not do these things in a literal sense, yet it signifies the remission of sins by the death of Christ, which was the real remission (Matthew 26:28; Hebrews 9:22-28). Christ put away sins by the sacrifice of Himself.

In EXPERIENCE, the remission of sins comes to us through FAITH in Christ (Acts 26:18; Romans 3:24-26). The "remission of sins" has three applications. Literally, by the sacrificial death of Christ - Matthew 26:28. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 10:43; 26:18. Ceremonially, by water baptism - Acts 2:38; 22:16

Now what does this verse mean? Does it mean Jesus shed His blood for forgiveness of our sins? You and I both know the correct answer.

Jesus shed His blood for literal remission of sins and it's the blood of Christ that washes away sins (and not plain ordinary H20). Ephesians 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Now let's see if a Baptist can answer this question honestly for a change. Do we repent and get baptized, FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS?

Baptism does not obtain the forgiveness of sins. In Matthew 3:11, did John the Baptist baptize with water for "in order to obtain" repentance or "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Obviously the latter. Repentance precedes baptism. Now let's go over this again. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Danthemailman · May 30, 2021

Titus Dorn said:
Confession is a command. This is a fact that you have completely ignored
Romans 10:9-10 That IF you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto SALVATION.

I have not ignored confession and it truly amazes me to see how everything that I explained to you in post #202 just went right over your head.

I see that you completely ignored my questions, so I will ask them again:

Romans 10:10 says that confession is made unto salvation and confession precedes water baptism in your 5-6 step plan of salvation. So how can confession be made "unto salvation," yet you still need to be water baptized "afterwards" in order to be saved? Hmm.. Also, Romans 10:10 says that one believes unto righteousness and faith is accounted as righteousness (Romans 4:5) which means you are saved. But according to your erroneous doctrine, one can believe unto righteousness, yet still remain lost until a verbal confession and water baptism take place afterwards? So according to your erroneous 5-6 step plan of salvation, after hearing the word, one first believes (but is still lost) then repents (but is still lost) then confesses (but is still lost) then is baptized (and is finally saved). Now explain to me how that harmonizes with (Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43; 11:17,18; 13:39; 15:8,9; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 10:10 etc..)

1John 4 :15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God.
This verse in 1John is speaking to CHRISTIANS. And Paul is teaching that these christians confessed their faith in Jesus in obedience to that command to be saved.

Works-salvationists typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture and the end result is salvation by works. John here is giving a description of Christians - "they confess that Jesus is the Son of God and God abides in him and he in God."

1John 4:14-15
And we have seen and TESTIFY that the Father has sent the Son of God as the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God.
This confession was done by all the christians in the first century to be saved. Jesus did confirm that confession is a direct command and that it is a requirement to obtain salvation.
Eunuch confessed his faith in Christ while obeying the gospel. In your perverted version of the gospel this is NOT supposed to occur because there cannot be any works in salvation. Again you can take up your objections with Jesus' commandments in His gospel with Him in judgement.
Acts 8:37 Then Philip said, If you believe with all your heart you may. And he answered and SAID, I BELIEVE, THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.

In the first place, this confession is an expression of faith and not a work for salvation. As I already thoroughly explained to you in post #202, confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together.

Once again in Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess - not two separates steps to salvation, but chronologically together.

Your false gospel is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics and has (one who believes unto righteousness - Romans 4:5-6) still lost in his sins until he rounds up a group of men at some later date and verbally confesses Christ to them. What a joke! Romans 10:10 also states that confession is made unto salvation yet your perverted gospel says, NOPE! The one who believes unto righteousness/confesses unto salvation is not saved yet until "after" he is baptized. What a joke! You can explain to Jesus why you refused to believe the gospel at the judgment.

Now what if the Eunuch did not publicly confess his faith in Christ? Does what Jesus teach about confessing Him before men apply to the Eunuch and to Jesus' direct command to confession in Romans 10:9-10? Can confession not really be a spoken confession with the mouth? Not according to the example God gives us in the conversion of the Ethiopian Eunuch. And not according to Romans 10:9-10 or 1John 4:14-15. Therefore Jesus' teaching about confessing Him before men in Matthew 10:32-33 must be taken literally as a spoken confession of faith and a command for All.
Matthew 10:32-33 Therefore WHOEVER confesses Me before men. Him I will also confess before My Father in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father in heaven.
You reject this not because it is not scriptural but because it does not fit with Baptist sectarian doctrine.
I will believe the example and testamony of my brother in Christ, the Ethiopian Eunuch and trust in Jesus words, Matthew 10:32-33

You continue to misunderstand and turn confession into a "work" for salvation. I already thoroughly explained Matthew 10:32-33 in context to you in post #202, but you probably didn't even bother to read it. I also thoroughly explains Romans 10:8-10 to you multiple times as well, but the truth just continues to go right over your head and there is a reason for that. I do not reject proper confession and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:3) There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord, but not for the unbeliever who merely gives "lip service" to the words, "Jesus is Lord." So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation. You have a lot of soul searching to do.

BornAgain2007 · May 30, 2021

Basketball said:
To be saved: believe on Jesus Christ. Have faith and trust in Lord Jesus to save you. At the same time, believing the gospel saves.

The Gospel is that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day. (1 Corinthians 15: 1-4)

To believe the gospel means to have faith and trust that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day as the all-sufficient means for your salvation. You are trusting in Jesus Christ to save you when you trust the gospel.

You must be under Holy Ghost Conviction before you can be saved!

I was very blessed to grow up in a community in North Carolina where Holy Ghost-filled Fundamental Missionary Baptist churches were everywhere. People feared God where I lived and fought sin, and there were no bars in town; in fact, you couldn't buy alcohol legally anywhere in the county! When I was real young, all the stores were even closed on Sundays.

All the preachers preached that God MUST be drawing you before you can get saved; in other words, you must be under Holy Ghost Conviction before you can get saved. That is how I got saved; God convicted me, and I went to the altar and got saved. I had never heard anything different until 2011 when my church was in a revival that lasted for six weeks, and the church was full every night, and people were going to the altars every night and getting saved.

One night, I noticed some people there from the first baptist church that had recently been infiltrated by modernists who had moved into my community. The next day, they started saying that the preachers were making the kids afraid by preaching about hell. Then they put up signs with symbols on them representing easy believism. They claimed that all you had to do was believe a summary about Jesus in 1st Corinthians 15 anytime you wanted, and you would be automatically saved. I had never heard such heresy, but I got on Facebook in different groups and noticed many churches teaching that false doctrine.

Believing in the gospel saves. (1 Corinthians 15: 1-4)

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