Is Jesus God ?

2BeholdHisGlory said:

I have been doing my homework on everything we can charge people with

Pick your isms and wear them proudly (or not)


triumphalism belief in the superiority of one particular religious creed
diphysitism belief in the dual nature of Christ
antilapsarianism denial of doctrine of the fall of humanity
illuminism belief in an inward spiritual light
deism belief in God but rejection of religion
catabaptism belief in the wrongness of infant baptism
antipedobaptism denial of validity of infant baptism
autotheism belief that one is God incarnate or that one is Christ
trialism doctrine that humans have three separate essences (body, soul, spirit)
tritheism belief that the members of the Trinity are separate gods
tutiorism doctrine that one should take the safer moral course
tolerationism doctrine of toleration of religious differences
terminism doctrine that there is a time limit for repentance
synergism belief that human will and divine spirit cooperate in salvation
subjectivism doctrine that all knowledge is subjective
stercoranism belief that the consecrated Eucharist is digested and evacuated

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There are many more also.

Matthew 11:30
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

Sometimes I wonder why so much has been added.

klutedavid said:

There are many more also.

Matthew 11:30
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

Sometimes I wonder why so much has been added.

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I know I just skimmed the ones that were the closet to applying, there was something like 200-300, there is probably many more
What a drag to look through that stuff (stuffthatisdragism)
I never was so bored in my life. (boretodeathism)
Gave it 45 minutes of my time and that was too much. (wasteoftimeism)

Yekcidmij said:

Why? Maybe you could define what you mean by "economic subordination" at this point? It looks like you're conflating economic with ontological.

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Since @dóxatotheó hasn't answered your question, I'll take a shot at it by quoting John Kleinig, of Australian Lutheran College:

"Well then, is the exalted Christ in any way subordinate to the Father right now? The answer is both "yes" and "no". It all depends on whether we are speaking about Him in His nature as God, or about Him in his office as the exalted Son of God. On the one hand, He is not subordinate to the Father in His divine essence, status, and majesty. On the other hand, He is, I hold, subordinate to the Father in His vice-regal office and His work as prophet, priest, and king. He is operationally subordinate to the Father. In the present operation of the triune God in the church and the world, He is the mediator between God the Father and humankind. The exalted Christ receives everything from His Father to deliver to us, so that in turn, He can bring us back to the Father."

Subordinationism - Wikipedia

I think this is what @dóxatotheó means by asserting that the Son of God humbled himself from eternity.

I don't know whether this is a standard Christian view. But it could be.

Yekcidmij said:

Well, even the simple minded know better than to write in one, gigantic, paragraph-long, run-on sentence.



You said that if there were no eternal, economic subordination then there would be no differences at all. I was simply asking why that's the case and you just repeated your assertion. Why would this eliminate the possibility that we're still talking about different persons? The validity of your assertion just isn't clear to me. I must be just below the simple minded (minus the run-on sentence parts of this frame of mind).



Why? Maybe you could define what you mean by "economic subordination" at this point? It looks like you're conflating economic with ontological.

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Ontology is the study of being. When we talk about the ontological Trinity, or as some theologians term it, the “immanent Trinity,” we are referring to the Trinity in itself, without regard to God’s works of creation and redemption. In the Trinity, there are three persons —the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—who together are one being. The ontological structure of the Trinity is a unity (Deut. 6:4). When we speak of the economic Trinity, on the other hand, we are dealing with the activity of God and the roles of the three persons with regard to creation and redemption. all three Persons of the Godhead are equal in nature. God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit all have the same divine nature and divine attributes. there is no ontological subordination (no difference in the nature of the three Persons of the Godhead). This means that the Trinity is not comprised of greater and lesser gods; rather, there is one God existing eternally in three co-equal Persons.
What the Bible does teach is an economic (or relational) subordination within the Trinity. The three Persons of the triune Godhead voluntarily submit to each other respecting the roles They perform in creation and salvation. So, the Father sent the Son into the world (1 John 4:10). These roles are never reversed in Scripture: the Son never sends the Father. Likewise, the Holy Spirit is sent by Jesus and “proceeds from the Father” to testify of Christ (John 14:26; 15:26). And Jesus perfectly submitted His will to the Father’s (Luke 22:42; Hebrews 10:7).
Economic or relational subordination is simply a term to describe the relationship that exists among God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Essentially, economic subordination within the Trinity refers to what God does while ontological subordination refers to who God is. So if there is no economic trinity it would a be lesser gods in the trinity or b Jesus is the Father. I hope i defined the ¨run-on sentence¨ for you

Andrewn said:

Since @dóxatotheó hasn't answered your question, I'll take a shot at it by quoting John Kleinig, of Australian Lutheran College:

"Well then, is the exalted Christ in any way subordinate to the Father right now? The answer is both "yes" and "no". It all depends on whether we are speaking about Him in His nature as God, or about Him in his office as the exalted Son of God. On the one hand, He is not subordinate to the Father in His divine essence, status, and majesty. On the other hand, He is, I hold, subordinate to the Father in His vice-regal office and His work as prophet, priest, and king. He is operationally subordinate to the Father. In the present operation of the triune God in the church and the world, He is the mediator between God the Father and humankind. The exalted Christ receives everything from His Father to deliver to us, so that in turn, He can bring us back to the Father."

Subordinationism - Wikipedia

I think this is what @dóxatotheó means by asserting that the Son of God humbled himself from eternity.

I don't know whether this is a standard Christian view. But it could be.

Click to expand...

thanks for mentioning me i didnt get the alert i responded to his questions

Andrewn said:

Since @dóxatotheó hasn't answered your question, I'll take a shot at it by quoting John Kleinig, of Australian Lutheran College:

"Well then, is the exalted Christ in any way subordinate to the Father right now? The answer is both "yes" and "no". It all depends on whether we are speaking about Him in His nature as God, or about Him in his office as the exalted Son of God. On the one hand, He is not subordinate to the Father in His divine essence, status, and majesty. On the other hand, He is, I hold, subordinate to the Father in His vice-regal office and His work as prophet, priest, and king. He is operationally subordinate to the Father. In the present operation of the triune God in the church and the world, He is the mediator between God the Father and humankind. The exalted Christ receives everything from His Father to deliver to us, so that in turn, He can bring us back to the Father."

Subordinationism - Wikipedia

I think this is what @dóxatotheó means by asserting that the Son of God humbled himself from eternity.

I don't know whether this is a standard Christian view. But it could be.

Click to expand...

also here read this not wikipedia and yes this is the catholic(universal) view on this
Subordination of the Son, Ligonier, and the “Economic” Trinity - The Aquila Report
these are the 4 subordinate views which one looks orthodox to you.
(a) ontological when it ascribes to the Son a substance, nature or essence which is inferior to the Father’s;
(b) aetiological when it asserts the Son’s posteriority in the order of causation;
(c) axiological when it degrades him in rank or status without denying his equality in nature;
(d) economic when it dates the subservience of the Son to the Father from some point after his origin, most commonly from his voluntary assumption of human nature.

Han Solo 111 said:

Is Jesus God ? (God the Son)

So like Jesus is God in human form ?
This is one of the core tenets of Christianity right?

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Jesus is the Son of the Father, that is what makes Him God.

There are three Divine Persons who share one undivided Being, Substance, or Essence: God.

In the Athanasian Creed we read, "And the [Christian] faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the Persons, nor dividing the Essence."

That which the Father is, likewise the Son is.
That which the Father and the Son is, likewise the Holy Spirit is.

Therefore the Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.

Not three Gods, but one God.

So Jesus, as the eternal and only-begotten Son of the Father, is very and truly God of God. And He, the Son and Word of the Father from all eternity, became flesh in the womb of the Virgin Mary, becoming human.

That is why we call Jesus the "God-Man", because He is both God and human, without any confusion, and without any separation. Fully God as the eternal Son of the Father, and fully human as the Child of Mary. God's Son became Mary's Son by the miracle power of the Holy Spirit in her womb. Which is also why we call Mary Theotokos, meaning "Birth-giver of God"; because by God's power she became God's mother, the mother of God the Son in the flesh.

-CryptoLutheran