The Two Times when Jesus was confronted with "honor Mary Mother of Jesus" statements

I didn't expect that.

All4Christ said:

Worship of Mary certainly is wrong.

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I agree

Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran and other churches that use the term Mother of God all disapprove of worship of Mary.

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Sure maybe they express such disaproval at ever doing that, I do not know one who admits to Mary worship, although it can very much come across as that (as you are already aware). It certainly far exceeds what the woman who stood corrected by Jesus did. When she was simply blessing the same things which pertained to Mary's motherhood (as they specifically related to himself). I do not know what you would call it if she stood corrected before Jesus. Was it somethin other then worship? That he stepped in and said something? I dont think she understood what it was, was it flattery? And this might be the wrong word to use here since no one ever admits its worship (although it very much perceived as so). But I dont want to use the word honour (in the good sense) because we are to honour our parents (And I do not believe Jesus dishonoured her). I believe he sought the honour of His father who is above all, the honour of his mother was not his objective (among men). So I dont know what to call it since (as I have confessed before) I am not good at always finding the right words. You cannot prove a negative it does not say the woman worshipped Mary (or flattered her) it shows where she was off and in what things (and Jesus' correction). Saying all that to say this, that it just appeared as if she felt her virtuous flattery of his mother (as it related to the one bore him and nursed him) would be seen as something positive to him. Even if it was just trying to honour her as his mother (over His Father even) as most blessed in respects to those things only. There is just nothing in the letters by the apostles that treat Mary as central in anything in them or even name her first in a gathering, or by name as made of a woman made under the law, nothing then ressembles what is often seen today.

All4Christ said:

Worshipping her over Jesus is not even remotely taught by any of those churches.

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I do not know all the things they do, I have seen prayers and songs and quite a few things I never saw expressed in the letters by the apostles.

I hope I put that correctly, and I will not argue with you but if a topic comes up (like this one) I try to point these things out using only the scripture I used (as I did earlier on the first few pages) and side with Jesus on them.

I learned something on this thread though ( I think) another poster (forgive me I miss their name, I need to go back and look) but they said something like the term mother of God was taken up because of some sort of heretic thing, is that correct?

2BeholdHisGlory said:

Only as scriptures speak of Christ in the manners it does I believe the words of God on every point on Christ

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Good! Do you believe that our Lord Christ is God Incarnate? If not, then most of us here have no basis for discussion with you. Now if you ask me, for instance, I'll answer with an unqualified "yes", and here's what I'll cite as support:
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Zat help any? I believe that Jesus Christ is God Himself, no equivocation allowed.

What say you?

2BeholdHisGlory said:

Which scripture do I post that you disagree with?

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Come off it mate. You were asked a simple question, and you can't/won't give a simple answer. The Scripture is all true, the point you're trying to make with 'em is not. If you don't want to answer the question then say so and have done.

tOr ya just trying to trap me because there was nothing in the others that could be refuted and this ticks you off?

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Trap you into what? Saying what you mean? I don't understand why that would something that one would fear being "trapped" into doing. Plain speaking and clear understanding seems a good thing in itself to me.

Jipsah said:

You don't happen to be Spanish do you?

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Why ignore my post and divert? You know that had more to do with pertaining to what is holy then Spanish

Jipsah said:

Good! Do you believe that our Lord Christ is God Incarnate? If not, then most of us here have no basis for discussion with you. Now if you ask me, for instance, I'll answer with an unqualified "yes", and here's what I'll cite as support:
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Zat help any? I believe that Jesus Christ is God Himself, no equivocation allowed.

What say you?

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Diverting again?

So basically your post to me was the typical hit and run

I remember you from back in the day, just wanted to see if you were the same

All4Christ said:

Honestly it is very frustrating when people assume that we worship Mary. To think that she we call her blessed because of her bearing Jesus is also wrong, although that certainly was a blessing. It is because of her hearing the Word of God and following it.

All that said, again, the term Mother of God is a theological statement affirming Jesus being God incarnate - fully man and fully God. It is not an honorific blessing her for bearing Christ.

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Thank you for your honesty and input.

The problem is that many have run far afield from what you say here, which is not an accusation against you or what you're saying. As I said earlier, these types of sayings originally meant for one purpose, tend to be used downstream by others in ways far from what the original thinking was. Protestants are not immune to this either. They've just had a shorter history to experience the situation.

All4Christ said:

Honestly it is very frustrating when people assume that we worship Mary. To think that she we call her blessed because of her bearing Jesus is also wrong, although that certainly was a blessing. It is because of her hearing the Word of God and following it.

All that said, again, the term Mother of God is a theological statement affirming Jesus being God incarnate - fully man and fully God. It is not an honorific blessing her for bearing Christ.

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Indeed she is blesssed

Luke 1:45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

And Elizabeth called her "the mother of my Lord". He the Word made flesh, who God made Lord and Christ and the Father also dwelled in him. In him was the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Jipsah said:

Sorry, that's not the view of Nicene Christianity. Mary did not bring forth "a man", she brought forth the Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man...

You can't separate our Lord into "a man" and God. He is fully God and fully Man.

And that, I think, is where most Prots go foul. They don't really believe in the Incarnation, and that Jesus isn't really God Himself, but rather a man through Whom God chose to work.

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This one

Reposting this

I dont get what the problem with using the word made as it relates to Jesus being made flesh

God sent forth his Son, MADE of a woman, MADE under the law (Gal 4:4)

The Word was MADE flesh (John 1:14)

God MADE Jesus Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36)

I dont think this saying is separating the man Jesus from God

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Afterall we know,

2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation

As Jesus said, the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

None of those deny his divinity just as the oneness he had with the Father he prayed for them to have as the Father and him had.

and being one with the Father is something he prayed we also would be when he said, "that they may be one, even as we are one



And I asked Jipsah this according to his own post

Jipsah said:

Come off it mate. You were asked a simple question, and you can't/won't give a simple answer. The Scripture is all true, the point you're trying to make with 'em is not. If you don't want to answer the question then say so and have done.

Trap you into what? Saying what you mean? I don't understand why that would something that one would fear being "trapped" into doing. Plain speaking and clear understanding seems a good thing in itself to me.

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Why you keep posting to me to conversations related outside of your initial post to me, why not just tend to your own stuff?

2BeholdHisGlory said:

Well if you find something heretical let me know

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Since you can't or won't say what you believe then you're safe from the accusation of heresy, anyway. You could have made up your own religion from whole cloth and we'd never know it.

2BeholdHisGlory said:

Your not my shrink, and we do not hang out and so why would you care what I believe?

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Unless you're playing at being an international man of mystery, saying what you believe and don't is kind of important in a theological discussion.

Look at what is posted, and if there is an error then point out that error but Im not doing cartwheels because your on some inquisition power trip as if you lord over my faith.

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So you want to talk, but don't want to say anything. That's passing strange, but whatever.

If theres an error in one of my posts than point it out, if not move out of my way

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Well, the good news is that never saying anything means you're never wrong.

2BeholdHisGlory said:

If theres an error in one of my posts than point it out, if not move out of my way

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Who's hindering you?

Jipsah said:

Since you can't or won't say what you believe then you're safe from the accusation of heresy, anyway. You could have made up your own religion from whole cloth and we'd never know it.

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How covenient is that for you. So I post things you go after me and then when I highlight your own contradictions and ask about them its my fault for not saying more then the scripture so you can actually get me for heresy?

Yeah I know how it works, what an old game

Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

Whose children do that?

Jipsah said:

Who's hindering you?

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I dont want to answer that per CF rules

Jipsah said:

Unless you're playing at being an international man of mystery, saying what you believe and don't is kind of important in a theological discussion.

So you want to talk, but don't want to say anything. That's passing strange, but whatever.

Well, the good news is that never saying anything means you're never wrong.

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Again, should I bump up your initial post to me or do you just want to contend with me on posts to others?

I have other posts to prepare for elsewhere so I will leave you to continue to divert until you stop doing that.

BobRyan said:

As far as I can remember there are only two times when Jesus was directly confronted with some form of "blessed be your Mother", "Blessed be Mary", "here is your mother - show her honor" as reported by the NT writers.

In the one case His response begins with "on the contrary"
In the other case He spins the statement around to a question "who IS My mother?"

Luke 11:
27 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.”
28 But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”


Matt 12
46 While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47 [Someone said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to You.”] 48 But Jesus replied to the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?” 49 And extending His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold: My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother, and sister, and mother.”

Which makes the "top" honor - someone Jesus came to save and as a person who accepts that salvation (which would include Mary).

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Surely He loved Mary as a child of God and as one blessed to give birth to the Messiah - but it is odd that his response to these two chances for respect "as my mother" - that these are in fact the two responses "He chose", if indeed He was trying to promote "Mary, is the mother of God" doctrine.

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I don't think Jesus was actually talking about his mother, but rather, was clarifying his role in being one with the Father... That's what I'm hearing.