Stop the Steal

Valletta said:

Simply following up on the sworn testimony. Democrat election workers lawyered up, it would take few minutes to make a copy and post it so everyone could see. Yet Democrats have spent months trying to keep the information concealed. It's just like at the border, if conditions for children are so great why continue to block the press? What's the big deal about letting people see the truth, whatever that truth may be? Transparency is so important for the people, it is something I have strongly and openly advocated for decades.

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You said, "What's the big deal about letting people see the truth, whatever that truth may be? Transparency is so important for the people, it is something I have strongly and openly advocated for decades."

Very noble of you I am sure, but you are giving me the impression that the truth is only the truth as long as it doesn't upset your agenda.
Months after the election you are still crying foul even though the courts decided that the truth of the matter was that no mass voter fraud took place.
Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Valletta said:

Simply following up on the sworn testimony.

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What sworn testimony? In what court case?

Arcangl86 said:

So here's a serious question. How do you know that these voting machines even took and saved images?

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That's the best part - if you can convince people that the only proof against something you're telling them to believe can't possible even exist, what other choice do they have but to fall for the story?

NxNW said:

What sworn testimony? In what court case?

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The testimony that never happened because the courts were too corrupt to listen to it, if you believe the other part of the conspiracy theory.

What would be the fun in believing that stuff if one had to be all consistent and figure out how to make all of the disparate stories agree with each other? That's like actual work and stuff, better off just believing whatever feels good about one's candidate losing.

Valletta said:

The "courts" decided no such thing, that's a fabrication.

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You're right about that! The furious denials made by people on that side of the issue seemingly change with every post that's put up. We can easily count at least six different ones--1) there is no fraud, 2) there is no mass or "widespread" fraud, 3) there is no evidence of fraud, 4) there is no fraud sufficient to have changed the outcome, 5) "the courts" ruled in favor of one of the above, and 6) the courts said there was no basis for any of the appeals and so didn't hear the cases. I apologize if I've forgotten a few of them.

Albion said:

You're right about that! The furious denials made by people on that side of the issue seemingly change with every post that's put up. We can easily count at least six different ones--1) there is no fraud, 2) there is no mass or "widespread" fraud, 3) there is no evidence of fraud, 4) there is no fraud sufficient to have changed the outcome, 5) "the courts" ruled in favor of one of the above, and 6) the courts said there was no basis for any of the appeals and so didn't hear the cases. I apologize if I've forgotten a few of them.

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Yes, you forgot the Trump DOJ and FBI investigations. Obviously they were complicit in this huge debacle.

Albion said:

You're right about that! The furious denials made by people on that side of the issue seemingly change with every post that's put up. We can easily count at least six different ones--1) there is no fraud, 2) there is no mass or "widespread" fraud, 3) there is no evidence of fraud, 4) there is no fraud sufficient to have changed the outcome, 5) "the courts" ruled in favor of one of the above, and 6) the courts said there was no basis for any of the appeals and so didn't hear the cases. I apologize if I've forgotten a few of them.

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How about these, from those on the other "side of the issue"?

William Barr: “To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

Joint statement from the Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees: "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."

Karl Rove: "Mr. Trump must prove systemic fraud, with illegal votes in the tens of thousands. There is no evidence of that so far.”

Judge Stephanos Bibas: "Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.”

Judge Matthew Brann: "This Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state".

Pat Toomey: [President Trump's frustration with Democrats] “doesn’t change the obligation of the president’s campaign to acknowledge that they have not been able to demonstrate that there’s been fraud, not on any significant scale.”

Valletta said:

Those are pretty outrageous comments.

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Nah, they're pretty reasonable.

Valletta said:

People don't realize how corrupt and dishonest the establishment is.

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Corruption and dishonesty need to be demonstrated. Not just assumed. Otherwise you're just attaching negative labels on people without cause.

Valletta said:

In the one county where the election machines were allowed to be examined, a critical file had been deleted. That's "compromised."

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Source?

Valletta said:

Simply following up on the sworn testimony. Democrat election workers lawyered up, it would take few minutes to make a copy and post it so everyone could see. Yet Democrats have spent months trying to keep the information concealed. It's just like at the border, if conditions for children are so great why continue to block the press? What's the big deal about letting people see the truth, whatever that truth may be? Transparency is so important for the people, it is something I have strongly and openly advocated for decades.

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Are you saying that the Georgia GOP was too incompetent to make sure that their elections were on the up-and-up?

Valletta said:

People were tricked, they were told the counting had stopped for the night. No one should be expected to anticipate a crime.

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Hobbies are nice to have.

Shouldnt this be in the conspiracy subfora?

Valletta said:

Lets see, in Georgia they said the counting stopped because of a broken water main, a leaky toilet, etc. five or six different stories as I recall before they said there were no such delays. They demonstrated the dishonesty publicly.

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None of that is a source for you claim. You claimed: "In the one county where the election machines were allowed to be examined, a critical file had been deleted."

There's no reason to believe you, unless you can offer supporting evidence.

Frankly, I don't think such a file existed, and given your performance so far in the thread, I hold very little hope of been shown to be wrong.

"Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired" -Jonathan Swift

Please remember that most of the people pushing the rigged election nonsense are not arguing in good faith. They know full well Trump lost and are just enraged about it. The minority that genuinely believe in a massive conspiracy consisting of Trump's own lawyers, judges, the GoP senate, GoP governors and the entire voting apparatus are not going to be convinced by pointing out their flaws in reasoning. These people have no trouble believing Trump is so despised that even his own party wanted him gone yet somehow that doesn't translate to a majority of the country equally despising him enough to vote him out.

A good essay with sources linked: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/c...united_states_senate_votes_to_acquit/fgn6ghy/

Valletta said:

Antrim County Michigan. The adjudication computer file was missing for the Biden/Trump election but was present for past elections.

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Except it wasn't.

It was claimed to be missing, but the "auditors" didn't actually understand what they were looking at and made a bunch of mistakes. Including not realising which files were, or were not, in the system.

That's because Antrim County DOESN'T USE A DIGITAL ADJUDICATION SYSTEM. It uses a manual one, with a pair of observers looking at the paper ballot.

It also does not own a license for adjudication software applications and services which could be used with its voting machine/software combination. Nor has it installed the adjudication software on its machines.

In addition, Antrim County's voting system tabulators aren't even compatible with the digital adjudication system used for their voting machines.

In other words, there was no computer file that was missing, because there were no such computer file in the first place. No such computer file could exist. It is an impossibility.

So, I was right. No such file existed.

Valletta said:

The amount of errors recorded was far above the legal limit, the deleted file would show the location where those ballots with errors were adjudicated.

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That would be amazing if it did, given there was no file to be deleted in the first place.

Also, the "auditors" messed up again - mistaking ballots with any one of three classes of exceptions requiring special handling or consideration for ballots with "errors". This could be something as simple as misalignment of check-marks for the voting tabulation machines or where a mistake on a ballot has been crossed out or corrected.

Valletta said:

Here's a link to a story in regard to the aforementioned facts: Crucial Logs Missing From Michigan County Dominion Voting Machines: Forensics Report

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There's a saying: "Entertain a clown and you become part of the circus".

The "auditors" of the voting machines used in Antrim County were clowns. Partisan, conspiracy-spouting, clowns. Making fools of themselves in public.

None of them had any declared cybersecurity expertise or experience. None of them had any expertise or experience with voting machine hardware, firmware or software. What they actually were was partisan, political operatives looking to stir up more deranged lunacy about the election.

To quote the independent review of their claims, the "auditors" displayed "gross negligence in the research, review, and forensic analysis performed", and this was an effort "intentionally derived, based on biases and a predetermined outcome, to spread mis and disinformation that has been previously disputed by the election community, federal government, and experts alike".


@Valletta: There's a reason why this audit went absolutely nowhere. It was about as serious and legitimate as Donald Trump's marriage vows. When examined, these claims are just that, claims. Not evidence, not support. When actual independent experts - private sector and state and federal - looked at what they wrote, nothing stood up to scrutiny. Literally nothing.


Cherry on top - the "auditors" are now being sued for damages by the voting machine company. Speech has consequences.

Foamhead said:

"Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired" -Jonathan Swift

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That sums the whole question up so well. It’s what makes these discussions ultimately futile, when someone begins with an assumption that something just is true then anything that comes afterwards is almost bound to have little to do with anything outside of that person’s head.