When does any particular sin(s) become backsliding, apostasy, or "falling away?"

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It says IF you are doing X, THEN you will do Y. That is LITERALLY what it is saying.

So IF you walk in the light, you WILL love your brother.

It really can't be any simpler. The only question left is, what does "walking in the light" mean? I believe it means you are saved by the blood of Christ. By definition you are now walking in the light.

Therefore, you love your brother in the light. I honestly think you have it exactly backwards. I feel like you are suggesting that "if I love my brother, I'm walking in the light." You've got X and Y backwards.

No. Walking in the light IS the equivalent of Loving your brother. Let's read the Scriptures.

“He that saith he is in the light,
and hateth his brother, is
in darkness even until now.”
(1 John 2:9).​

He that hates his brother walks in darkness. This is the polar opposite of loving your brother.

“He that loveth his brother abideth in the light,
and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.”
(1 John 2:10).​

Loving your brother is abiding in the light. Thus, walking in the light is just another way of saying: Loving your brother. Walking in the light = Loving your brother.

“But he that hateth his brother is in darkness,
and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth,
because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.”
(1 John 2:11).​

1 John 2:11 is saying the same thing as 1 John 2:9.

Nothing is said here that walking in the light will lead to loving your brother. It simply says that he that loves his brother abides in the light. In either case, the point here is loving your brother. One must love your brother in order to have the blood of Jesus cleanse them from all sin.
 
Upvote 0

Direct Driver

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2021
1,141
445
59
Kentucky
✟12,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hebrews 10:
26
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will
devour the adversaries.
"the knowledge of the truth" is this "forgive, and you will be forgiven".
There are no sacrifices for sin.
This may help:
What does Hebrews 10:26 mean?

Context is everything. And context means chapter, book, intended audience of the book and time and place in history it was written. After all, I could also take this one out of context to argue I can do anything and I'm saved: Romans 7, and particularly verses 21-25:
So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clare73
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It says IF you are doing X, THEN you will do Y. That is LITERALLY what it is saying.

So IF you walk in the light, you WILL love your brother.

It really can't be any simpler. The only question left is, what does "walking in the light" mean? I believe it means you are saved by the blood of Christ. By definition you are now walking in the light.

Therefore, you love your brother in the light. I honestly think you have it exactly backwards. I feel like you are suggesting that "if I love my brother, I'm walking in the light." You've got X and Y backwards.

Read 1 John 2:9 carefully.
It says he that says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in darkness.

This relates to keeping His commands (1 John 3:23). 1 John 2:4 says a similar thing. It basically says that the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar, and the truth is not in them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,225
6,171
North Carolina
✟278,308.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No. This is not true that those who apostatize were never saved. Hebrews 3 is proof against this idea. It says that one can harden your heart by sin whereby you can depart from the living God. You cannot depart from Pittsburgh airport unless you were in Pittsburgh airport. The same is true with God.
You cannot depart from the living GOD unless you abide in the living GOD.

You cannot fall away from something you never had.
Correct. . .you are falling away from a profession of it, which is not the same as a possession of it.
Both look the same and are taken for true faith. The time of testing will sort it all out.

Apostasy reveals which one it really was--profession or possession.

"They went out from us (apostasized), but they did not really belong to us (it was in appearance only). For if they had belonged to us (were born again), they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."
(1 John 2:19)

See Luke 8:13.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This may help:
What does Hebrews 10:26 mean?

Context is everything. And context means chapter, book, intended audience of the book and time and place in history it was written. After all, I could also take this one out of context to argue I can do anything and I'm saved: Romans 7, and particularly verses 21-25:
So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his experience as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. Paul (Saul) is describing his experience of what it is like to struggle in keeping the Old Covenant Law that did not include Jesus Christ.

In fact, here are 8 reasons in Scripture that show us that Paul is indeed talking as a Pharisee (recounting his past experience) and he is not talking in the present tense as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.

#1. In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.

#2. We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts 8:22). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws and they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some kind of Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. For Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus was talking to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e. you sin or break this law of God) and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one time act) and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#3. Paul says, "For without the law sin was dead." (Romans 7:8). He also says, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." (Romans 7:9). This type of saying is nonsensical from a present tense reading as an adult Christian. The only way it sort of works is if Paul is referring to himself as a baby who had no knowledge of God's laws yet. But there are two problem with even that interpretation. One, this view does not seem as consistent with the phrase, "For without the law sin was dead" because even though Paul as a baby did not have any knowledge of the Law yet, the rest of the adult world would have the Law and sin would still be alive to them. Second, Paul says, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." (Romans 7:10-11). Okay, so if Paul grew up and became aware of the Law one day, how could the commandment be ordained to life at this point in his life? The commandment was ordained for life back in the time of the Law of Moses. Also, Paul found that "the commandment" was death unto him and that it slew him. There are no death penalties attached to the commands given to us under the New Testament. Death penalties are only associated with the Laws given to us in the Old Covenant. This is how the Law slew him. For breaking the Old Law could be a loss of his own physical life. So this is talking about the Old Law (and not all Law). So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#4. Paul says, "But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). Okay. Let's break this down. Paul says, "But sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR SIN, works death in me." (Romans 7:13). Now, how can sin make it appear like it may not be sin? Well, if Jesus was raised and Saul (Paul) was still a Pharisee striving to obey the Old Law when the New Covenant Law was still in effect, the sin that Saul (Paul) was struggling with as a pharisee during that time would not really technically be sin in every case. For if Paul disobeyed certain Old Covenant laws while the New Covenant and it's laws were in effect, then Saul (Paul) is not really breaking any real commandments from God in every case. Hence, why Paul said, "...sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR (as) SIN." (Romans 7:13). The beginning of verse 13 is a foreshadow of what is to come in verses 14-24. Paul is stepping out for a brief moment as speaking as an Israelite living throughout history to speak of his condition as a Pharisee when he says, "...sin, that it might appear sin." In the second half of verse 13, Paul says, that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). This is saying that when God provided the written Law of Moses to his people, there would be a double accountability to keeping God's laws because they are written for all to see now. So an Old Testament saint would feel exceedingly sinful or guilty for breaking God's law back in the Old Testament times because he had in his possession a written down visual law clearly telling him what is right and wrong. So again, Paul is referring to the Old Law here and not all law. This talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#5. Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and is sold under sin; And yet in Romans 8:2, Pauls says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.

#6. In Romans 7:25, Paul asks the question: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Asking this kind of question as a Christian does not seem consistent with Paul's following statement if he is already delivered thru Jesus Christ as a Christian. If a believer is delivered by Jesus, and is thankful of that fact, there would be no cry to ask any question that says, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

#7. Here is the final nail in the coffin for this argument. Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).

So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
It was the Old Covenant Law.
For when Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable.
Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His father after His resurrection 3 days later) so He can be our mediator between God the Father and man.

Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.

Paul says elsewhere,
8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

(Romans 13:8-10).

So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!
We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin).

So we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) is in reference to the Old Law in Romans 7 and Romans 8. This helps us to understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee in struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (in verses 14-24).


#8. In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law.
For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).


Source used for a small paragraph within this write up:
Paul is not Talking about Himself: Why I take the "pre-Christian" Reading of Romans 7:14-25
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,281
20,280
US
✟1,476,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No. This is not true that those who apostatize were never saved. Hebrews 3 is proof against this idea. It says that one can harden your heart by sin whereby you can depart from the living God. You cannot depart from Pittsburgh airport unless you were in Pittsburgh airport. The same is true with God. You cannot depart from the living GOD unless you abide in the living GOD.

You cannot fall away from something you never had.

This is a "timey-wimey" thing where our perception of time as created beings existing within time bumps into God's perception of time as an uncreated being existing in extemporal simultaneity.

We necessarily think in terms of "before being saved" and "after being saved" because see "saved" as occurring at a point in the flow of time. We are locked in to a temporal perception because we are created beings, created at a point of time and continuing from there. Even if we continue into eternity, the fact that we were created at a specific point of time means there will always be a "time before which we were not," and thus always have a temporal perception.

God, however, sees all of time in an instant. His perception is not temporal, but extemporal. The end is always within His view. Nothing is "was" or "will be" within His view...everything is.

Those who in our temporal perception "will be saved" are and have always been "are saved" in God's perception, because He sees their eternal condition in His present, His "now."

So if there is anyone who--by our temporal perception--appears to have once been saved and then fallen away, God sees that they were never in the eternal condition of salvation.

By the same token, God can also those who are--by our temporal perception--"not yet saved" as already being in the eternal condition of salvation..even those not yet born.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clare73
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Correct. . .you are falling away from a profession of it, which is not the same as a possession of it.

Apostasy reveals which one it really was. "They went out from us (apostasized), but they did not really belong to us (it was in appearance only). For if they had belonged to us (were born again), they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."
(1 John 2:19)

See Luke 8:13.

No. Hebrews 3 says, “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.” (Hebrews 3:12).

The author of Hebrews mentions nothing to those he is writing to here about how they had a false profession of faith here. That is you adding that to the text here.
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,313
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,605.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Will some sins get you there faster than others? If so, which ones? How many times do you sin, confess, sin, confess, sin, confess, etc., before you wake up and realize you're simply nothing more than a hypocrite/apostate?

I guess for me Apostasy is when a person pretty much gives up on their Faith. It literally refers to soldiers who abandon their post as far as the Biblical lexical term used.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This is a "timey-wimey" thing where our perception of time as created beings existing within time bumps into God's perception of time as an uncreated being existing in extemporal simultaneity.

We necessarily think in terms of "before being saved" and "after being saved" because see "saved" as occurring at a point in the flow of time. We are locked in to a temporal perception because we are created beings, created at a point of time and continuing from there. Even if we continue into eternity, the fact that we were created at a specific point of time means there will always be a "time before which we were not," and thus always have a temporal perception.

God, however, sees all of time in an instant. His perception is not temporal, but extemporal. The end is always within His view. Nothing is "was" or "will be" within His view...everything is.

Those who in our temporal perception "will be saved" are and have always been "are saved" in God's perception, because He sees their eternal condition in His present, His "now."

So if there is anyone who--by our temporal perception--appears to have once been saved and then fallen away, God sees that they were never in the eternal condition of salvation.

By the same token, God can also those who are--by our temporal perception--"not yet saved" as already being in the eternal condition of salvation..even those not yet born.

These are your thoughts or somebody else's. This is not Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
9,865
1,714
59
New England
✟512,371.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 12:32 seems to be the "out" for Hebrews 6:4-6.

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,... if they fall away,
to renew them again to repentance,
since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame." Heb. 4, 6 NKJV

"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him;..." Matt. 12:32a

(Was [the writer of Hebrews] using hyperbole here...?)

Good Day,

Greek Scholar of NT interpretation deals with the correct usage and interpretation of the so called "Warning Passages"


In Him,

Bill
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ceallaigh
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ceallaigh

May God be with you and bless you.
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
19,168
9,959
.
✟607,407.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is a fancy theological way of explaining away what the Bible plainly says.

You call that fancy? I thought I was being rather simplistic.

Let's read the Scriptures in what they actually say.

31 “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”​

Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is speaking a word against the Holy Ghost because it is related to speaking a word against the Son of man. Speaking bad words against Jesus is forgivable for a believer. But it is not forgivable for a believer (who has been transformed by the Spirit) to speak bad words against the Holy Spirit.

Let's read the Scriptures in what they actually say:

"And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils..” Mark 3:22

..."Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” Mark 3:28-29

"Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit..” Mark 3:30
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Good Day,

Greek Scholar of NT interpretation deals with the correct usage and interpretation of the so called "Warning Passages"


In Him,

Bill

I looked at the transcript of the video: He mentioned 1 John 2:19. This is referring to the gnostic believers and not all false professing believers. These gnostic believers were pushing the false idea that sin was an illusion or nonexistant (1 John 1:8). Anyways, we know beleivers can fall away because there are tons of verses about how believers can fall away.

If we are never in jeopardy when we sin, then the Bible would not teach that we can fall away from the faith; But it does teach that we can fall away.

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3​

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)​

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)​

In fact, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).
 
Upvote 0

1watchman

Overseer
Site Supporter
Oct 9, 2010
6,039
1,226
Washington State
✟358,358.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Will some sins get you there faster than others? If so, which ones? How many times do you sin, confess, sin, confess, sin, confess, etc., before you wake up and realize you're simply nothing more than a hypocrite/apostate?

Let me show what our Bible teaches, apart from any rationale, friend. 1. Sins getting you there: where do you mean? Sin will get one no where in the mind of God. 2. Which one: We all sin daily, for we always have a 'flesh' problem ---Christians and non-Christians. The sin of rejecting Jesus --the Christ of God WILL continue to keep one on the road to eternal loss. 3. One IS a hypocrite; maybe also a Apostate (false teacher if they are teaching falsely against God). With out receiving Jesus Christ into our heart (note John 3; John 14) we will continue in our natural state as 'lost sinners'. I hope this helps. Write me personally if you wish to see the fuller picture.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,660
7,880
63
Martinez
✟906,474.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Will some sins get you there faster than others? If so, which ones? How many times do you sin, confess, sin, confess, sin, confess, etc., before you wake up and realize you're simply nothing more than a hypocrite/apostate?
Thanks for posting this. I can relate! For years I confessed sins but NEVER repented from them. There is a big difference as I was once a hypocrite. That being said, it is the work of the Holy Spirit that brings us into true repentance. When one decides to stop quenching His work, one will notice the very sins that caused separation will begin to disappear from our lives. This is my testament. Be blessed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,168
3,221
Prescott, Az
✟39,400.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
After all, I could also take this one out of context to argue I can do anything and I'm saved: Romans 7, and particularly verses 21-25:
I guess you could try to make an argument. I don't see it. How would that work? And what does that
have to do with sinning willfully? The sin offering was never on occasion of willful sin.

Leviticus 4:1 Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 Speak to the children of Israel, saying: If a person sins unintentionally against any of the commandments of the Lord which ought not
to be done, and does any of them....

Willful sin required reparations.
Leviticus 6:
4
then it shall be, because he has sinned and is guilty, that he shall restore what he has stolen, or the thing which he has extorted, or what was delivered to him for safekeeping, or the lost thing which he found,
5 or all that about which he has sworn falsely. He shall restore its full value, add one-fifth more to it, and give it to whomever it belongs, on the day of his trespass offering.

What exactly about the context of Hebrews 10 creates a problem with the post?
And what makes you think that I don't understand context? I see every verse
in the context of the scriptures, the Law, the prophets, the Psalms, the NT.
 
Upvote 0

lsume

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 14, 2017
1,491
696
70
Florida
✟417,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Will some sins get you there faster than others? If so, which ones? How many times do you sin, confess, sin, confess, sin, confess, etc., before you wake up and realize you're simply nothing more than a hypocrite/apostate?
When Christ told Peter to forgive 7 times 70, He was saying always. Do you still feel the need to be forgiven by God from time to time. The whole principle of forgiveness from The Lord’s Prayer is to forgive us as we forgive others. If you have reached perfection and no longer need forgiveness, you will have achieved a state of Grace whereby you would instinctively forgive. Please forgive my hyperbole. I am confident that you don’t feel that way. Our forgiveness is predicated on our own willingness to forgive.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You call that fancy? I thought I was being rather simplistic.



Let's read the Scriptures in what they actually say:

"And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” and, “By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.” Mark 3:22

“... Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” Mark 3:28-29

" — 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” Mark 3:30

Yes, Jesus is talking to the Jews.
But notice that this sin was also possible to commit in the world to come, as well.

“And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.” (Matthew 12:32).​

In Matthew 12:32: The “whosoever” is in context to the believer who has tasted of God’s Spirit because it says that this sin can be committed in the “world to come.” The “world to come” is the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ. Everyone will all start out be a Spirit filled believer because Christ will be living and reigning in this time period. So only the Spirit filled Christian who seeks to turn away from God and who speaks bad words against the Spirit will never be forgiven.

Jesus says to the Pharisees:

“Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.” (Matthew 12:33).​

If these Pharisees were forever condemned by their committing the unforgivable sin here, then why is Jesus telling them to make the tree good and his fruit good? This means that there is still hope for these Pharisees because they said what they did in ignorance like Paul’s actions were done in ignorance before encountering Jesus and His grace.

Jesus says,

“But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:” (Mark 3:29).​

“Danger” is the keyword here to focus on here. If you are in danger, you have a chance to change your course, and be safe and out of danger. If you get a warning of danger by seeing a shark fin in the water, you would swim as fast as you can to safety. If you were in a burning building, you would be in danger of being burned up, unless you got out and or you called the fire department to rescue you. Danger means you are seriously close to a bad thing happening but it does not mean that bad has already happened to you. When we experience “danger” we are receiving a warning or sign that we are very close to disaster, harm, or destruction.

“Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.” (Luke 12:8-12).​

In Luke 12:8-12: It starts out talking to the believer and it ends with talking to the Spirit filled believer (for the passage ends saying that the Holy Ghost shall teach you what you ought to say); Yet, in the middle of this conversation, it refers to how blasphemy against the Spirit can never be forgiven. This implies that only the Christian who tasted of the Spirit can only speak bad words towards the Spirit and it is not referring to the unbeliever here. For obviously if we denied God as an atheist before coming to the faith, that does not mean we cannot accept Jesus later on, and be forgiven. So the blasphemy of the Spirit is only possible for a Christian who had tasted of the Spirit (Especiallly when we look at the whole counsel of God’s Word).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,508
7,861
...
✟1,194,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When Christ told Peter to forgive 7 times 70, He was saying always. Do you still feel the need to be forgiven by God from time to time. The whole principle of forgiveness from The Lord’s Prayer is to forgive us as we forgive others. If you have reached perfection and no longer need forgiveness, you will have achieved a state of Grace whereby you would instinctively forgive. Please forgive my hyperbole. I am confident that you don’t feel that way. Our forgiveness is predicated on our own willingness to forgive.

Matthew 6:15 makes it clear that if we don't forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father. I cannot imagine being saved and yet also not being forgiven by the Father. Not being forgiven by the Father implies one is not saved.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mr. M
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,703
2,813
Midwest
✟305,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would say when there is no remorse and no acknowledgment that it is sinful even after it has been pointed out from scripture to be sinful.
Yes, no remorse, no repentance just bring on the sinful lifestyle with no struggle and no goal or effort to stop.
 
Upvote 0