The Tragedy of Faithless Church Leaders

SingularityOne · Feb 11, 2021

SalemsConcordance · Feb 11, 2021

Defend the Orthodox Faith or Go Broke - Orthodox Reflections

Out of hysterical fear of a disease that is almost exclusively of serious concern for the very old (who are also relatively easy to protect), we are crippling the future of our children. And not just economically and academically, but their future in the Orthodox Church as well. If the current financial crisis in Toronto in the Greek Orthodox community is any indication, the spiritual legacy we wish to leave to our children is in serious trouble.

From the beginning of Summer 2020, Archbishop Sotirios of the Canadian Greek Archdiocese presented challenges for the Faith and the Faithful by embracing multiple spoons. When met with opposition, the Archbishop mischaracterized, dismissed, and was even occasionally vindictive to the Orthodox Faithful who challenged this innovation. At Orthodox Reflections, we covered all that in its own category which you may find here. For a general synopsis of the issue, please click here. Archbishop Sotirios has been controversial over other topics as well. Recently His Eminence felt compelled to criticize the Jesus Prayer, an absolute treasure of Orthodox spirituality. What he said in a sermon, and a very good response to his words, can be found at the Mystagogy Resource Center.

The Archbishop was only part of the story, however. In Toronto, the Greek Orthodox Churches are owned and operated by a non-profit known as the Greek Community of Toronto (GCT). In July 2020, following a city inspection on the basis of a single complaint about communion practices, GCT sent the Archdiocese a letter that threatened to close all four Greek Orthodox Churches in Toronto unless the Greek Archdiocese agreed to abide by all guidelines issued by the City of Toronto.

...............................

[GCT] The full press release is here in PDF. The most important parts are excerpted below with some emphasis added:

Sadly, the current circumstances have also had a devastating impact on the GCT. Our overall revenues have dropped by over 90%. Our current bank loan is $3.2 million dollars and our total debt is $4.5 million dollars, and we are on target to lose earnings of $2 million dollars by the end of 2021.
The very survival of the Greek Community of Toronto hangs in the balance.

Not "our churches," or "our souls," but the "community."

SingularityOne · Feb 12, 2021

SalemsConcordance said:
Defend the Orthodox Faith or Go Broke - Orthodox Reflections

Not "our churches," or "our souls," but the "community."

I’ll read this tomorrow. Thanks for linking it!

ArmyMatt · Feb 12, 2021

Lord have mercy!

prodromos · Feb 14, 2021

SalemsConcordance said:
Defend the Orthodox Faith or Go Broke - Orthodox Reflections

Not "our churches," or "our souls," but the "community."

This reminds me of one of the monasteries on Mt Athos that was experiencing financial difficulties. Since they had limited resources they started to wind back providing for pilgrims who came to visit, which in turn resulted in God winding back His support for the monastery, putting them in an even worse situation.
God had permitted them to be tested and they had failed that test. Once they resumed providing hospitality to pilgrims with the evem more limited resources they had, God's Grace returned and they began to prosper once more.

prodromos · Feb 14, 2021

I have to wonder what Tapi finds funny about Fr Matthew's response. Perhaps he could explain.

ArmyMatt · Feb 14, 2021

my guess is that he didn't get what I was saying, "Lord have mercy!" to, which was NOT to the acts of the bishops mentioned in the article.

Lukaris · Feb 15, 2021

I fail to understand what is the problem with these guidelines. These are the same guidelines we use in the Antiochian Churches in America. On Sundays I see many non Orthodox churches still closed ( & I am sorry for them) while we are thankfully having DL.

We mask in choir & must limit how many can sing. I do janitorial work in our parish & am always concerned that I properly clean & disinfect surfaces.

There does seem to be politics in the article yet I voted for ( & still support) Trump so I fail to see how politics factor so prominently.

E.C. · Feb 15, 2021

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I do not envy our bishops. They have enough crap to deal with on a normal day much less with a viral pandemic and all the politics and panic that comes with it.

I skimmed bits and pieces of the initial article. For starters, I think calling any Orthodox Christian, much less a bishop, "faithless" is a bit too judgemental to continue reading. Finally, again, we the laity don't really seem to appreciate nor sympathize with the position that the bishops are in within this pandemic. Pray for them, they need it.

tapi · Feb 15, 2021

ArmyMatt said:
my guess is that he didn't get what I was saying, "Lord have mercy!" to, which was NOT to the acts of the bishops mentioned in the article.

Not quite. I was more referring to your incapability/unwillingness to address the madness found in the article. Or maybe you agree with it. Whatever the case, I disagree and deem it unfit of priestly dignity. You are free to disagree, of course.

I see you as a well-intentioned, well-meaning, good-hearted priest. I am a much lesser man. But I am saddened whenever I see insanity and division perpetuated and spread, and not taken a stand against by those with a pastoral vocation. Of course, just my opinion.

prodromos · Feb 16, 2021

tapi said:
Not quite. I was more referring to your incapability/unwillingness to address the madness found in the article. Or maybe you agree with it. Whatever the case, I disagree and deem it unfit of priestly dignity. You are free to disagree, of course.

I see you as a well-intentioned, well-meaning, good-hearted priest. I am a much lesser man. But I am saddened whenever I see insanity and division perpetuated and spread, and not taken a stand against by those with a pastoral vocation. Of course, just my opinion.

You assume that Father Matt's response was to the article linked in the OP and not to the article in post #2, even though he posted a few hours later. I assumed Fr was posting chronologically in response to the most recent article posted, just as I did. Fr Matt, correct me if I'm wrong.

ArmyMatt · Feb 16, 2021

tapi said:
Not quite. I was more referring to your incapability/unwillingness to address the madness found in the article. Or maybe you agree with it. Whatever the case, I disagree and deem it unfit of priestly dignity. You are free to disagree, of course.

I see you as a well-intentioned, well-meaning, good-hearted priest. I am a much lesser man. But I am saddened whenever I see insanity and division perpetuated and spread, and not taken a stand against by those with a pastoral vocation. Of course, just my opinion.

perhaps the reaction of me saying a prayer was because I am saddened it got this far, and I personally really don't like synods being called out like that. sometimes when I read that it really is all I can say at the time. I also personally know one of the authors, which also saddened me.

and since you don't attend my parish, so I am not your pastor (or that of anyone on here), you don't know what I have or have not done to stand against stuff.

ArmyMatt · Feb 16, 2021

prodromos said:
You assume that Father Matt's response was to the article linked in the OP and not to the article in post #2, even though he posted a few hours later. I assumed Fr was posting chronologically in response to the most recent article posted, just as I did. Fr Matt, correct me if I'm wrong.

it was to both.

GreekOrthodox · Feb 16, 2021

Sigh, it's not just the death rate but hospitalizations and the unknown long-term effects of the disease. I've spoken to a number of people who work at my hospital who got it early on and still have complaints and conditions almost a year later.

Hermit76 · Feb 16, 2021

These are emotional times and this virus has served to highlight underlying frustrations with some of the more controversial among the episcopate. There have always been individuals among the episcopate that are questionable. I just think its a poor choice of battles to make this such an issue at this time. Not that multiple spoons is not a valid concern. Both sides have let their emotions get the better of them in all of this. I've shuddered when reading reactions from laity and clergy alike.

tapi · Feb 16, 2021

Hermit76 said:
These are emotional times and this virus has served to highlight underlying frustrations with some of the more controversial among the episcopate. There have always been individuals among the episcopate that are questionable. I just think its a poor choice of battles to make this such an issue at this time. Not that multiple spoons is not a valid concern. Both sides have let their emotions get the better of them in all of this. I've shuddered when reading reactions from laity and clergy alike.

Those who disparage the majority of the Church, calling them apostates and blasphemers of the Holy Spirit would bear the majority of the blame, in my opinion. Just think of it, it's a crazy claim. A surefire sign of plani if I have ever seen one. It's not a very constructive discourse and it should not surprise anyone that some bishops, clergy and faithful have been greatly dismayed by the actions of the likes of Heers and reacted accordingly, even if not always in a perfectly tempered manner.

Certainly, the management of the COVID-19 situation has not always and everywhere been optimal by any stretch, and valid critique is even needed, but instead of building up the Church, these men are causing scandal and division among the faithful. The result of these actions is clearly seen by the article posted in the OP. It is a sad sight.

Platina · Feb 16, 2021

tapi said:
Those who disparage the majority of the Church, calling them apostates and blasphemers of the Holy Spirit would bear the majority of the majority of blame, in my opinion. Just think of it, it's a crazy claim. A surefire sign of plani if I have ever seen one. It's not a very constructive discourse and it should not surprise anyone that some bishops, clergy and faithful have been greatly dismayed by the actions of the likes of Heers and reacted accordingly, even if not always in a perfectly tempered manner.

Certainly, the management of the COVID-19 situation has not always and everywhere been optimal by any stretch, and valid critique is even needed, but instead of building up the Church, these men are causing scandal and division among the faithful. The result of these actions is clearly seen by the article posted in the OP. It is a sad sight.

Who is Heers?

tapi · Feb 16, 2021

Platina said:
Who is Heers?

Archpriest Peter Heers, currently technically of ROCOR-USA, residing in Greece, under the pastoral oversight of no bishop and with zero accountability for his actions.

Platina · Feb 16, 2021

Ohhhh, Fr. Peter. I know him. I didn't recognize anyone by the name of Heers.

Do please share with us how you know the degree of pastoral oversight over him. I'm sure it will be enlightening!

tapi · Feb 16, 2021

Platina said:
Ohhhh, Fr. Peter. I know him. I didn't recognize anyone by the name of Heers.

Do please share with us how you know the degree of pastoral oversight over him. I'm sure it will be enlightening!

I am not in the habit of disclosing private information.

Nevertheless, even to a bystander it should be evident that a situation in which a priest is under the "jurisdiction" of a bishop from another part of the world is not normal. I'm sure his excuse is the Ukraine-thing, but this has wider ramifications. If he were to conduct his operations under, say, Met. Tikhon, he would have been long ago silenced, if not defrocked. Then again, he would just change jurisdictions, as is customary for him.

The Tragedy of Faithless Church Leaders

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