Teaser question...

True Counterphobia said:

God became temporal at t=1. God's temporalness aside, it's impossible to get around infinite regress if there was nothing known about point t=0 unless there is a timeless, spaceless, non-temporal cause of the universe. Notice I am talking about time and not the universe as an exclusive thing at this point.

Click to expand...

None of this answers the question, did Yahweh create the universe ex nihilo, or ex materia? You don't appear to be a Mormon, so let's go with ex nihilo.

True Counterphobia said:

I don't know of any evidence that there is anything outside of the universe and God.

Click to expand...

Nor do you have evidence that it represents the totality of existence. No one has any means of knowing, either way.

However, you have to make the positive assertion that it does represent the totality of existence, if you want to invoke Kalam as evidence for the Christian god. Otherwise, there would be aspects of existence that he is not responsible for creating.

So, rewording Kalam to accurately represent what you are actually arguing for, it looks like this,

-Everything which begins to exist ex nihilo has a cause.
-The totality of existence began to exist ex nihilo.
-Therefor, the totality of existence has a cause.

There is no scientific evidence that the universe represents the totality of existence. There is no scientific evidence that the totality of existence began ex nihilo.

So, that is the answer to your question about why it is unscientific.

Which is all to say nothing of the fact that the first premise is inductively vacuous.

True Counterphobia said:

Pick your poison: Either the universe was caused by God, or you have to believe something else that doesn't have any evidence for it.

Click to expand...

No, that is a completely false dichotomy. I am not forced to "pick" between two different magical non-answers.

The other answer - the only honest, scientifically valid one - is "I don't know".

True Counterphobia said:

Stop saying what my position is inaccurately.

Click to expand...

I've got a better idea - don't invoke crappy arguments that you can't defend.

Par5 said:

Yes, I know what you are saying, but why should I listen to you saying I am living in a delusion when you have nothing to show me that it is not you who is living in a delusion? Perhaps you might like to give me proof that you are not living in a delusion? Proof mind you, not a claim.

Click to expand...

You're not living in the strong delusion from Second Thessalonians. That will come later when the people of the world agree to give power to one man. God facilitates that with the strong the delusion. Given that the people want to believe in lies, God will give them one.

Why do people want to believe in lies? Because they want to believe in equality - the religion of equality. And when you believe in the religion of equality then the world is turned upside-down.

True Counterphobia said:

You're annoying.

Due tell how the Kalam has been debunked.
You asked for evidence on God existing. I provided evidence. You rejected it, just as I said you would.

Click to expand...

I asked for evidence. You offered an invalid argument. In other words, you haven't yet provided evidence.

Kalaam is very old news. It's been comprehensively debunked many times.
Here: How to Debunk The Kalam Cosmological Argument
And here: The Kalam Cosmological Argument Debunked! | Society for Scientific Exploration
How Does the Kalam Cosmological Argument Suck? Let Me Count the Ways.

If you have any other evidence - that you think would survive a critical examination - I'd be interested in seeing it.

True Counterphobia said:

Then why are you on a Christian forum?

Click to expand...

I can’t answer for anyone else but I’m mindful of not existing in an echo chamber.

This forum is a one stop shop for many things that my normal surfing habits never take me near such as science denial, conspiracy theorists, flat Earthers, racism, sexism, homophobia and all seven shades of ignorance about how the world works.

It’s very convenient.

True Counterphobia said:

Stop saying what my position is inaccurately.

Click to expand...

May I ask: are you new here?
I haven't seen you around in the Apologetics forum before, but I have been away for a while.
If you are new here, debating atheists may not be quite what you expect. If you like, I'd be happy to recommend some resources where you can see atheist arguments for yourself. Knowing what atheists think will make you a better debater.

Larnievc said:

I can’t answer for anyone else but I’m mindful of not existing in an echo chamber.

This forum is a one stop shop for many things that my normal surfing habits never take me near such as science denial, conspiracy theorists, flat Earthers, racism, sexism, homophobia and all seven shades of ignorance about how the world works.

It’s very convenient.

Click to expand...

It's true - you do see a LOT of fallacious reasoning in Christian Apologetics. Ad hominem, special pleading, begging the question, ad hoc rationalisations - you could play bingo with it!

True Counterphobia said:

I don't know of any evidence that there is anything outside of the universe and God. Pick your poison: Either the universe was caused by God, or you have to believe something else that doesn't have any evidence for it.

Click to expand...

It doesn't work like that.
It works like this:
I don't know why the universe came into existence.
I'm not going to invent an answer just so that I can say that I don't know. That would be illogical.

You say that you do know? Okay. Present your evidence.

Your preferred option, the Christian God, does not get a free pass, just because no other answer is available (and, of course, all of the religions, past, present and - no doubt - future - would be happy to correct you on the availability of other answers).

You're wrong; I don't have to believe something that doesn't have any evidence for it; I am simply holding my options open and refusing to commit to any one without reason. This is the rational thing to do. It means you have to say "I don't know how the universe was created," but perhaps that's for the best.

Matt5 said:

You're not living in the strong delusion from Second Thessalonians. That will come later when the people of the world agree to give power to one man. God facilitates that with the strong the delusion. Given that the people want to believe in lies, God will give them one.

Why do people want to believe in lies? Because they want to believe in equality - the religion of equality. And when you believe in the religion of equality then the world is turned upside-down.

Click to expand...

Equality is not a religion, it is a commendable objective. It is inequality that is responsible for many of the world's problems.
If you think that I want to believe lies, then please tell me what those lies are. I would hate to think you put me in the same box as many Trump supporters.

True Counterphobia said:

That's not what I was getting at at all. Why a Christian forum of all places? Why not an atheist forum, or a tech forum, why a Christian forum? Makes no sense why you are here since you don't share an interest with the subject matter.

Click to expand...

Here are some questions in response:

• Why would you presume that a non-Christian would have no interest in Christianity? Is this because you have no interest in Hinduism, or Taosim, or Islam and think everyone else is devoid of curiosity?
• What makes you think it is strange to participate in tech forums and atheist forums and Christian forums? You appear to think it strange, else you would not be asking the question.
• Are you unaware that CF has several sub-forums of potential interest to a wide range of individuals wherein the Christian element is incidental and generally absent?

I am here because:

• I deliberately seek out views that contrast with my own, in order to avoid complacency and selection bias.
• I consider several aspects of Christian fundamentalism a threat to an equable future and wish to observe the thoughts of its followers at close hand.
• Participation in any forum broadens one knowledge and improves ones communication skills.
• There are interesting discussions in the Science section.
• The Christian only parts of the forum provide some fascinating insights.
  
• The Politics sections are useful if I suspect my blood pressure has fallen.

True Counterphobia said:

Debate is largely destructive.

Click to expand...

IF you truly believe this you should stop making such provocative and ill-considered threads.

Par5 said:

Equality is not a religion, it is a commendable objective. It is inequality that is responsible for many of the world's problems.

If you think that I want to believe lies, then please tell me what those lies are. I would hate to think you put me in the same box as many Trump supporters.

Click to expand...

The only path to equality is by force. We know that wealth naturally follows the 80-20 rule: 80% of the wealth will be owned by 20% of the people. Force is required to get to 50-50. Eventually that means shooting people who resist.

Earlier, those who are not like us are Nazis. Today, it's punch a Nazi. Tomorrow, it's shoot a Nazi. I'm thinking the shooting part starts happening within a decade.

If you replace the rules of Christianity with new rules, then that set of new rules form a religion. The set of new rules mostly governing the West today is based on equality.

You wanted lies. I give you lies:

1. Success comes from cheating.
2. Failure comes from being victimized (by the people in #1.)
3. People are basically good.
4. Men and women are interchangeable.
5. A strong military/nuclear force provokes other countries.

Those are a consequence of believing in equality. They will lead to bad things happening. Women's sports is on the verge of collapse is one example. Marriage is in the process of collapsing.

If you believe in equality, then showering you with authentic information showing the truth doesn't work. Logic doesn't work. Only when you are lined up against a wall to be shot will you begin to think you made a mistake.

Why will you be lined up against a wall?

Because the leaders of the equality movement will eventually go too far even for you. You will complain. And then you will be shot for being a Nazi.

True Counterphobia said:

So because atheists say it's debunked, it is. Hate to break it to you, but atheists don't necessarily think supiriorly than theists. Get out of your bubble.

Click to expand...

Gosh. You really are a beginner at this!

True Counterphobia said:

Atheists shouldn't care about Christianity, not non-Christians. I say because if atheists do not believe, then either they care about Christianity as a threat, or it shouldn't make a difference what other people believe because the moral stance atheists make is that there is no objective morality so it shouldn't matter what people do or believe. Where am I wrong? Am I wrong about atheists and morality? Tell me.

Click to expand...

Ophiolite just gave you an excellent answer. You ignored it.