ARE ALL THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT?
- Thread starter LoveGodsWord
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So does your idea of the law being fulfilled mean God is okay when we lie, steal, vain His name or break any of His other commandments?
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Brother, making "holy" the Eden seventh-day cannot go away when it was set before sin.
The Lord foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples. But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations. (Psalm 33:10-11 NIV)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
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Are you denying Christ's words? You keep going back to a meaning of destroy not fulfilled. Something fulfilled receives the fruits or rewards of that which was fulfilled. If go to school and complete the program it doesn't mean I may reject what I learnt or that I am better than the knowledge I learnt it means I get a degree and I have greater understanding that I can build on. The fruits of "do not murder", "do not lie", etc are not murder and lying but rather love. The fruits of the honor the Sabbath day and keep it holy is rest and holiness. The rest and holiness that was once reserved for a day is fulfilled by Christ so that we may have access to it at all times, not just for one day. Christ rested on the Sabbath more than any other as he rested in the grave satisfying the demand and wrath of the law he then resurrected in new life fulfiling the Sabbath down to the nth degree so now we may enjoy the fruits of the 4th commandment, which is rest and holiness (aka salvation and restored relationship with God)
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So our goal then is the 7th day rest and holiness. Fulfillment is not having to wait for the Sabbath to come around so we may partake of this rest and holiness it is a release from the limits of the day so we may partake of God's rest and holiness at all times. Today is not sabbath yet I have access to God's rest and holiness. How can that be so?
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Brother, the explanation of the rest that you feel all the time is found in the following passage as a result of taking upon you His "yoke" and "burden".
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30 NIV)
You keep the Sabbath in the best possible way until you understand more. God's word reveals more about the Sabbath than you have understood. The blessings of the Sabbath are even greater when the Sabbath is fully understood.
“ ‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’ ” (Exodus 31:14-17 NIV)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
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Yet you do not have any scripture to back up what you are sharing.
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Interesting you didn’t answer the question. There are two choice, either we are free to sin without consequence or sin is still a sin. Do we honor God when we lie, steal or murder? When we do those things is that sin? It’s a yes or no question.
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I never said murder, lying and stealing were not sinful but quite the opposite. It feels like you either didn't read or understood my response. You seem to be trying to now force me into some strawman and are getting more emotionally escalated. Tone is hard to interpret on the internet, I know I can be very direct which can be misunderstood but I'm not interested in an escalation like that. so perhaps you could rephrase to show you taken the time to understand my response otherwise it's just a tit-for-tat type discussion that doesn't help anyone.
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Seems like you are reading a lot into a very simple question. You very clearly implied that with Jesus fulfilling the law meant the law was no longer valid. Since you agree lying and stealing is still a sin, which would mean we do not have the right to cherry pick which commandments are “fulfilled” and no longer applicable. So if we are required to keep the law as Jesus stated He did not come to destroy than the 10 commandments are still a requirement and fulfilled must mean something different than no longer required.
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I'm not really sure you read my response still and you're still trying to trap me in your strawman logic. The product of something fulfilled is its goal not the opposite of its goal. So the fulfillment of law against stealing murdering or lying are not stealing murdering or lying, the product of these are love. The goal of the Sabbath is rest and holiness so the product of a fulfilled sabbath is rest and holiness. These are fulfilled and the way you jump to "all is no longer required" shows you are still looking at this as destroyed and not understanding what fulfilled means. We are to love our neighbour as ourself and in that all laws regarding actions we do to each other are fulfilled Christ even says they hang upon it. So this shows us more important to do not steal is to love our neighbour as our self but I don't know where you get we can steal from our neighbour from this, if so you need to re-examine how you love yourself. And above that is of course is the greatest commandant to love God with all our heart soul and mind and all of the law and prophets hang upon those two commands. So it's not about putting the 10 commandments at top, they are push down and these are shown greater.
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You say this in one breath yet indicate here:
You state we are "released" from the Sabbath which means "no longer applicable" "done away with". The 4th commandment is part of Gods eternal law. As I previously stated, its not up to us to cherry pick Gods laws and which ones we are "released from".
Yes, showing God our love is the greatest commandment. And God tells us how we are to show Him love, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, John 14:23 so breaking any of His laws, including the day our Savior deemed His Holy Sabbath is not showing Him love.
God clearly defined His Sabbath, it is not just a day of rest, it is not something you access whenever you feel like it. It's something we are to do weekly, every seventh day.
Exodus: 20 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
It seems like you have a lot of strong opinions, but have yet to provide scripture to support them. Maybe something to pray about.
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I said the Sabbath, in that I mean the rest of God, is released from the day. Not that we are released from the Sabbath. I see you're still trying to superimpose this destroyed, done away with side on my words. Let me be clear, Jesus did not come to destroy the law and the prophets he came to fulfill them. I know this because he said this. Can you please stop forcing the destroyed part, I'm not saying that and I've never said that. Please don't misrepresnt my words to convince yourself that I must be saying God abolished the Sabbath. The scripture is in Mat 5. I use Christ words not my own and you seem to be happy with saying that you don't understand what fulfilled means so ignore it and label my words as destory and then say I dont use scripture.
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Fulfill means do, accomplish, make happen.
Have Heaven and earth passed? Has all been fulfilled? No, Jesus has not come and Heaven and Earth have not passed.
Then not one jot or tittle has passed from the Law.
What Law?
The Ten Commandments and the moral aspect of the Law.
How do we know?
Because Jesus starts to quote some of them through out the rest of the sermon.
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matt 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Matt 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Matt 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Matt 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
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Jesus says "the law and the prophets" which is far greater than the 10. This presents a problem because we are forced to reconcile what has clearly been fulfilled with what we don't want changed. But we need to dismiss our bias and read Christ words for what they arem You seem to be content interpreting "the law and prophets" as the 10 commandments but there is no support to make such an exclusion especially when Christ uses very inclusive language and you also seem content to dismiss fulfilled as anything but obey.
Fulfilled also does not mean disappears. It seems you are jumping to the destory/pass away position which is not fulfilled. Christ says fulfilled so why interpret it as pass away when he specifically says that's not what fulfilled is. Again you are jumping to your bias and not reading the words that Christ says.
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Christ says he came to fulfill the law and the prophets (I know this because he says so himself) so tell me what does a fulfilled 4th commandment look like? My conclusions are supported by what Christ tells us about the law, things like do not murder, do not steal are not enough and the deeper meaning is in the commandment to love our neighbour as ourself. These commands effectively are superceded with the commandment to love as it is the focus and goal of the commandment to begin with. We also know Christ is our saviour and we look to him for salvation, he gives us rest and he tells us himself to come to him and he will give us rest and through Christ we are made holy. All these things are well supported in scripture. And in this we see the focus of the Sabbath a rest and holiness only God can give, also scripturally supported. So what's the issue? Do you need these verses spelt out?
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