God loves me. On a practical level, what does that look like?

dysert said:

We hear it all the time: God loves you. I struggle to figure out what that looks like on a practical, here-and-now basis? I can identify lots of things that it *doesn't* mean:

• God won't let me get sick
• God will heal me when I do get sick
• God will make me happy
• God won't let me lose my job

And there are many more. Can we have a discussion on what it means, practically, to say that God loves us?

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In my personal experience, I have seen that God is interested and intimately involved in every aspect of my life. I have an awareness that there is nothing going on in my life that He doesn't see or care about. On that basis, I have an open door to involve Him in as much of that as I want. It is actually me who doesn't involve Him as much as He would like, not vice versa. It is my conscious decision not to seek Him in any given moment and pay attention instead to worldly perspectives and speculations.

His love is all encompassing. Corrie Ten Boom said that there is nothing too big for His power or too small for His love. I have found that to be 100 percent true.

Oldmantook said:

Then how would you explain Heb 5:9? How would you explain John 14:21?

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John 14:21
"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me.The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Jesus gave us many commands. One of them is "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another", John 13:34.
So he commanded us to love in the same way that he loves.
How does/did Jesus love? Well he was God, so his love was divine. The Greek word for love used in this verse is Agape - divine, perfect love. Jesus tells us in Matthew 5:44 to love - agape - our enemies.
Can you love even your friends with God's divine, perfect love - see 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 for a definition? How about your enemies - those who swear at you, criticise you, take you for granted, are rude, unloving etc; can you show them God's perfect, agape love?
No; no one can. So how can we obey this COMMAND of Jesus?

John tells us that love - agape - is from God, 1 John 4:7 and that God IS love - agape, 1 John 4:8.
He says that we love because God first loved us, 1 John 4:19.
He says that God has lavished his agape love on us so that we are called children of God, 1 John 3:1.
Paul says that God has poured his agape love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, Romans 5:5.
He says also that one of the fruits that the Spirit produces is agape love, Galatians 5:22.

So the only way to keep these two commands of Jesus - to love one another AND to love our enemies with God's agape love - is to receive the Holy Spirit and allow him to pour God's agape love into our hearts.
Receiving the Holy Spirit means being born again; accepting Jesus as our Saviour, repenting. Receiving Jesus as our Saviour means realising/accepting that he died for us, and our sins are forgiven through him alone, Acts 4:12.He is our Saviour because we sinned against God, Romans 3:23 and deserve to be condemned, Romans 6:23 - but in his love God sent Jesus to die for us, Romans 5:6-8; 2 Corinthians 5:19; Ephesians 2:4-5, (and there are doubtless many others.)
Back to John 14:21. If we have God's love in our hearts we will be able to keep Jesus' command to show agape love to others. If we are showing agape love to others, we have God's love in our hearts and are showing that we love Jesus.

Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is the source of eternal salvation to those who obey him - yes, true.
Tell me, how can you obey Jesus' command to love, even your enemies, with God's agape love without repenting, coming to God, realising how much he loved you - when you were first a sinner - being born again and receiving his Holy Spirit who fills us with agape love and produces this love in us?

It ALWAYS starts with God.
We have no hope of loving, and obeying, him in our own strength; we are sinners and godless before we come to him for forgiveness and eternal life.

Otherwise, the "Gospel" that we give to others is "try very hard to obey Jesus, with your own efforts; then God will say 'he's obeying me, now I can show him my love'."
This makes salvation something we have earned; heaven will be full of smug, self righteous people saying "I earned this from God; I am here by my own efforts."

As you say, you cannot take ONE verse out of context and build a doctrine on that. The NT makes it clear that God is love, that love comes from God, that we love only because he first loved us, 1 John 4:10, that God pours his love into our hearts through his Holy Spirit who, in turn, produces agape love in us. So that we can obey Jesus' command to love - agape - our enemies and one another.
We cannot obey Jesus' command to love unless we first have God's love.

Strong in Him said:

Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is the source of eternal salvation to those who obey him - yes, true.
Tell me, how can you obey Jesus' command to love, even your enemies, with God's agape love without repenting, coming to God, realising how much he loved you - when you were first a sinner - being born again and receiving his Holy Spirit who fills us with agape love and produces this love in us?

It ALWAYS starts with God.
We have no hope of loving, and obeying, him in our own strength; we are sinners and godless before we come to him for forgiveness and eternal life.

Otherwise, the "Gospel" that we give to others is "try very hard to obey Jesus, with your own efforts; then God will say 'he's obeying me, now I can show him my love'."
This makes salvation something we have earned; heaven will be full of smug, self righteous people saying "I earned this from God; I am here by my own efforts."

As you say, you cannot take ONE verse out of context and build a doctrine on that. The NT makes it clear that God is love, that love comes from God, that we love only because he first loved us, 1 John 4:10, that God pours his love into our hearts through his Holy Spirit who, in turn, produces agape love in us. So that we can obey Jesus' command to love - agape - our enemies and one another.
We cannot obey Jesus' command to love unless we first have God's love.

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God gives the grace for us to obey. However we must first choose to obey. Not all Christians obey but instead choose to live according to the flesh. The result is spiritual death - not eternal life. Yes or no?

Strong in Him said:

John 14:21
"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me.The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Jesus gave us many commands. One of them is "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another", John 13:34.
So he commanded us to love in the same way that he loves.
How does/did Jesus love? Well he was God, so his love was divine. The Greek word for love used in this verse is Agape - divine, perfect love. Jesus tells us in Matthew 5:44 to love - agape - our enemies.
Can you love even your friends with God's divine, perfect love - see 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 for a definition? How about your enemies - those who swear at you, criticise you, take you for granted, are rude, unloving etc; can you show them God's perfect, agape love?
No; no one can. So how can we obey this COMMAND of Jesus?

John tells us that love - agape - is from God, 1 John 4:7 and that God IS love - agape, 1 John 4:8.
He says that we love because God first loved us, 1 John 4:19.
He says that God has lavished his agape love on us so that we are called children of God, 1 John 3:1.
Paul says that God has poured his agape love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, Romans 5:5.
He says also that one of the fruits that the Spirit produces is agape love, Galatians 5:22.

So the only way to keep these two commands of Jesus - to love one another AND to love our enemies with God's agape love - is to receive the Holy Spirit and allow him to pour God's agape love into our hearts.
Receiving the Holy Spirit means being born again; accepting Jesus as our Saviour, repenting. Receiving Jesus as our Saviour means realising/accepting that he died for us, and our sins are forgiven through him alone, Acts 4:12.He is our Saviour because we sinned against God, Romans 3:23 and deserve to be condemned, Romans 6:23 - but in his love God sent Jesus to die for us, Romans 5:6-8; 2 Corinthians 5:19; Ephesians 2:4-5, (and there are doubtless many others.)
Back to John 14:21. If we have God's love in our hearts we will be able to keep Jesus' command to show agape love to others. If we are showing agape love to others, we have God's love in our hearts and are showing that we love Jesus.

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Let me focus on your last statement to get to the heart of the matter. "If we have God's love in our hearts we will be able to keep Jesus' command....
What happens to the Christian who doesn't keep Jesus's commands? Does God still love him/her according to John 14:21? Yes or no?

Oldmantook said:

Let me focus on your last statement to get to the heart of the matter. "If we have God's love in our hearts we will be able to keep Jesus' command....

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You're not "getting to the heart of the matter"; you've completely ignored my post which says that we CANNOT keep Jesus' command to love unless we have first received God's love.

Oldmantook said:

What happens to the Christian who doesn't keep Jesus's commands? Does God still love him/her according to John 14:21? Yes or no?

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Yes.
God loved us when we were SINNERS, Romans 5:8. Paul goes on to say that if were were reconciled to God by the death of his son when we were his ENEMIES, how much more will we be saved through his life? Romans 5:10.

Again, we cannot try hard to keep God's commands to earn his love - that is a "Gospel" of good works. As if God were a celestial Father Christmas "have you been a good girl/boy? Then I'll reward you with my love".

Oldmantook said:

God gives the grace for us to obey. However we must first choose to obey. Not all Christians obey but instead choose to live according to the flesh. The result is spiritual death - not eternal life. Yes or no?

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I've written two fairly long posts to you, with Scripture; and you're demanding yes/no answers in response.

Since you want to play that game, the answer to this post is no.
If you want a longer explanation and will not just dismiss it, I'll write one later.

Strong in Him said:

You're not "getting to the heart of the matter"; you've completely ignored my post which says that we CANNOT keep Jesus' command to love unless we have first received God's love.

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If you read carefully, you would know that John 14:21 refers to believers only since it states "He who has my commands and keeps them...." Only a Christian has Jesus' commands. Only a Christian is able to keep his commands - since he has first received God's love - as you stated. HOWEVER, every single Christian including you and I has the choice on a daily basis whether to sin or not. This verse states only the Christian who obeys by keeping Jesus' commands will be loved by God. It does not state he who has my commands and doesn't keep them will be loved by God does it??

Strong in Him said:

Yes.
God loved us when we were SINNERS, Romans 5:8. Paul goes on to say that if were were reconciled to God by the death of his son when we were his ENEMIES, how much more will we be saved through his life? Romans 5:10.
Yes God loved us while we WERE sinners. Rom 5:8 does not state that as believers, God still loves us if we keep on sinning.
Jesus' atonement indeed saved us - that we might be able to live sanctified lives - not to continue in sin.

Again, we cannot try hard to keep God's commands to earn his love - that is a "Gospel" of good works. As if God were a celestial Father Christmas "have you been a good girl/boy? Then I'll reward you with my love".

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God loved us while we were yet sinners, yes. No, it does not state that God loves us if we keep on sinning does it, so your reference to Rom 5:8 is quite irrelevant.
No where in the entire Bible does God ever condemn good works done in obedience to God/Scripture. In fact we were created to do good works (Eph 2:10). Good works don't save us but are the outward evidence that we are saved. Why don't you read the description of the gospel message that the Apostle Paul himself described instead of clinging to your own belief:
"First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds." Acts 26:20
The Apostle James states the same thing:
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Js 5:22
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Your conception of works is unbiblical.

Strong in Him said:

I've written two fairly long posts to you, with Scripture; and you're demanding yes/no answers in response.

Since you want to play that game, the answer to this post is no.
If you want a longer explanation and will not just dismiss it, I'll write one later.

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This is not a game - it involves questions of spiritual life and death. If that is a game to you, then I suggest that you don't need to discuss with me and simply go on holding to your beliefs. I asked you a simple question. Based on your answer, since you deny that Christians who live according to the flesh face spiritual death then how do you reconcile your belief with Rom 8:13?
"For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live."

dysert said:

We hear it all the time: God loves you. I struggle to figure out what that looks like on a practical, here-and-now basis? I can identify lots of things that it *doesn't* mean:

• God won't let me get sick
• God will heal me when I do get sick
• God will make me happy
• God won't let me lose my job

And there are many more. Can we have a discussion on what it means, practically, to say that God loves us?

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For God so loved the world, that he
w̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶s̶i̶c̶k̶
w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶s̶i̶c̶k̶
w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶p̶p̶y̶
w̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶j̶o̶b̶
gave his only Son...

.

Oldmantook said:

If you read carefully, you would know that John 14:21 refers to believers only since it states "He who has my commands and keeps them...." Only a Christian has Jesus' commands. Only a Christian is able to keep his commands - since he has first received God's love - as you stated.

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I know it's addressed to believers.
No one can love as Jesus loves without God's love in them; correct.

Oldmantook said:

HOWEVER, every single Christian including you and I has the choice on a daily basis whether to sin or not. This verse states only the Christian who obeys by keeping Jesus' commands will be loved by God.

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If someone is keeping Jesus' command to love others - including your enemies - with God's divine love, then obviously they can only do that because they are receiving that perfect love from God; he has poured it, and is continuing to pour it, into their hearts.
They ARE loved by God; that is how they are able to show love. You're making it sound as if we try to obey his commands and show love all on our own, in our own strength; if we do that, THEN God says "ok, now I will love him."
Maybe that's not what you intended, but that's how it came across. That is the wrong way round. Scripture says, "we love because God first loved us", 1 John 4:19. NOT God loved us because we first proved that we had obeyed him.

Oldmantook said:

It does not state he who has my commands and doesn't keep them will be loved by God does it??

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It doesn't say "If a Christian sins, disobeys me and stops keeping my commands I will stop loving him" - true.
It doesn't say, "God's love is conditional on you keeping my commandments"; true.
It doesn't say what you said either. So you can't make an argument from silence and assume that this is what it means.

Oldmantook said:

God loved us while we were yet sinners, yes. No, it does not state that God loves us if we keep on sinning does it, so your reference to Rom 5:8 is quite irrelevant.

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No it's not.
God loved us when we were sinners; when we were disobeying him, Ephesians 2:2, since we didn't know, or accept, his word. When we were without God we were godless, spiritually dead, living among others ho were spiritually dead, Ephesians 2:3, walking in the flesh and following the ways of the world.
God loved us when we were like that. He loved us when we were his enemies, and sent his Son to die
for those who were disobeying him and didn't know him. No obedience - on our part - was required; God loved us first.
Yet you seem to be saying that once someone who knows God, and has received his love, sins; God stops loving them or withdraws his love.
No. Their sin might separate them from God for a while so they cannot feel, or are aware of, his love and/or presence; that doesn't mean that God has withdrawn it.

Oldmantook said:

No where in the entire Bible does God ever condemn good works done in obedience to God/Scripture.

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I never said that he did.
When we receive God's love, we will show it it who we are, how we live and what we do. We will WANT to show it and will WANT to serve God.

Oldmantook said:

Why don't you read the description of the gospel message that the Apostle Paul himself described instead of clinging to your own belief:
"First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds." Acts 26:20

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They demonstrated their repentance, faith and love by their deeds; yes.
That's not wrong. We love because God first loved us, and then SHOW that we have God's divine love in us by keeping his commands, including the one to love our enemies.

But nowhere does it say that if we STOP doing good deeds and showing this love, then God no longer loves us, or withdraws his love.

In Matthew 5:44-46, Jesus said, "If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even the pagans do this? Be perfect as God is perfect."
So if God was loving only those who loved and obeyed him, he would be doing what Jesus told us NOT to do.

Oldmantook said:

Your conception of works is unbiblical.

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No it isn't, because I have not said that they are not allowed or that we don't do them.
I said that God's love for us is not conditional on whether we do them.

If someone claimed that they were a Christian and had received God's love, but constantly sinned, were cruel to others, involved in petty crime, never read the Bible etc; obviously we could question whether or not they had really received God's love and what it, and salvation, meant to them.
That wouldn't mean that God didn't love them and was only willing to start once they showed that they loved him. It wouldn't mean that God had showed them love so that they could respond and be saved, but then withdrew it again.

God IS love.
If it were possible for him to stop loving or withdraw his love, he wouldn't be God.

Oldmantook said:

This is not a game - it involves questions of spiritual life and death. If that is a game to you, then I suggest that you don't need to discuss with me

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I know it's not a game. I used that word because you weren't discussing with me.
You asked me how I explained John 14:21. I wrote quite a long reply with several verses/passages of Scripture; you ignored these and did not discuss them, but wrote a one sentence answer with the question "yes or no?"
I wrote a second post about the verse in Hebrews; you again responded with a question and asked "yes or no?"
It seemed to me that you weren't taking my reply very seriously, just picking out one or two phrases and saying that the answer to those could only be either yes or no.

Oldmantook said:

I asked you a simple question.

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You asked me how I explained John 14:21 and Hebrews 5:9.
I answered.
You largely ignored my replies and asked a couple of questions, demanding that I answer either yes or no.

Oldmantook said:

Based on your answer, since you deny that Christians who live according to the flesh face spiritual death

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You asked:

Oldmantook said:

Not all Christians obey but instead choose to live according to the flesh. The result is spiritual death - not eternal life. Yes or no?

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I answered, "no" - because "yes" or "no" were the only two options offered to me.
I said I would elaborate if you asked me to.

If someone is saved, accepts Jesus, is born again, receives eternal life, his love and his Spirit; they HAVE eternal life and NOTHING can separate them from God's love.
If, knowing all of this, they were one day to turn their back completely on God, reject him, deliberately and consistently sin and continue to do so all their lives; when they died, they would probably be rejected by God - though I'm not God, and don't intend to judge one way or the other.
If you were asking about this scenario, then my answer would be "possibly" - only because I am not God and don't know if he could see a reason why they had completely rejected him.

If you are saying that some people are not actually Christians at all. They assume they are because they go to church, and maybe even Bible study group, and do good deeds, (and I know a lot like that), but have no idea what it means to receive, or walk by, the Spirit, and are serving God in their own strength; and if you are asking whether these people are spiritually dead - I would still say "possibly". I don't know their hearts, and do not know how far they have responded to, and understood, the Gospel and God's love.

If you are saying that some Christians are saved and love God, but either do not have the Spirit or do not understand what it means to walk in the Spirit, and are therefore headed for spiritual death; my answer is "no".
They HAVE been saved from their sin; Jesus said, "whoever comes to me I will NEVER turn away", John 6:37.
If their lives are somewhat carnal, if they are showing that they have not quite rejected the world and all its values; that does not mean that they are spiritually dead or headed that way. They need teaching and correction.
In Acts 19, when Paul was in Ephesus and met some disciples who did not have the Spirit, he did not say "you are carnal, walking by the flesh and not really a believer"; he told them about Jesus, laid hands on them and they were filled with the Spirit.

In all your posts, you seem to be saying that our obedience is a condition for receiving God's love and eternal life, and that if we stop obeying, he withdraws both.
It isn't and he doesn't.

Strong in Him said:

If someone is keeping Jesus' command to love others - including your enemies - with God's divine love, then obviously they can only do that because they are receiving that perfect love from God; he has poured it, and is continuing to pour it, into their hearts.
They ARE loved by God; that is how they are able to show love. You're making it sound as if we try to obey his commands and show love all on our own, in our own strength; if we do that, THEN God says "ok, now I will love him."
Maybe that's not what you intended, but that's how it came across. That is the wrong way round. Scripture says, "we love because God first loved us", 1 John 4:19. NOT God loved us because we first proved that we had obeyed him.

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One of the problems with your argument is you frame keeping Jesus' command to mean "loving others." While that is indeed true, God also commands us to love him as well. Jesus stated that if we love him, we are to obey his commands. That would include such commands as not lying, not stealing, not committing adultery, coveting, not worshiping other Gods, etc. No where have I written that we obey in our own strength as you have posited a red herring claim. God gives the grace to do so IF we choose to follow him. A Christian must continue in obedience.

Strong in Him said:

It doesn't say "If a Christian sins, disobeys me and stops keeping my commands I will stop loving him" - true.
It doesn't say, "God's love is conditional on you keeping my commandments"; true.
It doesn't say what you said either. So you can't make an argument from silence and assume that this is what it means.

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If the meaning of a verse makes plain sense; seek no other sense - golden rule of hermeneutics.
According to your belief, a believer could choose to not keep God's commandments and yet still have the assurance of God's love - despite this verse saying the exact opposite of your claim. Does God still love us unconditionally if we persist in sin?
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil,... 1 Jn 3:7-8.
If you claim that I'm making an argument from silence in Jn 14:21, then this passage in 1 John 3 confirms that those who practice sinning are not children of God but instead of the devil. Doesn't sound to me like God still loves these children of the devil and places no conditions upon them for his love does it?

Strong in Him said:

No it's not.
God loved us when we were sinners; when we were disobeying him, Ephesians 2:2, since we didn't know, or accept, his word. When we were without God we were godless, spiritually dead, living among others ho were spiritually dead, Ephesians 2:3, walking in the flesh and following the ways of the world.
God loved us when we were like that. He loved us when we were his enemies, and sent his Son to die
for those who were disobeying him and didn't know him. No obedience - on our part - was required; God loved us first.
Yet you seem to be saying that once someone who knows God, and has received his love, sins; God stops loving them or withdraws his love.
No. Their sin might separate them from God for a while so they cannot feel, or are aware of, his love and/or presence; that doesn't mean that God has withdrawn it

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God did love us first and by his grace enabled us to believe. However you fail to distinguish between occasional sin and habitual sin. 1 Jn 1:7 states: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
This verse has a condition attached indicated by the word "if." The condition is "walk in the light." If this clause is met, then the believer has assurance that Jesus' blood cleanses when sin occurs. A believer who instead chooses to walk in darkness has not fulfilled the condition of walking in the light and thus has no assurance of Jesus' cleansing blood sin as he continues in unrepented sin. IF he chooses to repent, turn from sin and begin walking in the light, then the blood of Jesus is efficacious.

Strong in Him said:

I never said that he did.
When we receive God's love, we will show it it who we are, how we live and what we do. We will WANT to show it and will WANT to serve God.

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No. Not all believers will want to serve God but instead may choose to depart from God or continue in disobedience. Heb 3:12-14 warns:
12Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
If believers will all want to show God our love and serve God as you claim, then this warning is rendered nonsensical.

Strong in Him said:

They demonstrated their repentance, faith and love by their deeds; yes.
That's not wrong. We love because God first loved us, and then SHOW that we have God's divine love in us by keeping his commands, including the one to love our enemies.

But nowhere does it say that if we STOP doing good deeds and showing this love, then God no longer loves us, or withdraws his love.

In Matthew 5:44-46, Jesus said, "If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even the pagans do this? Be perfect as God is perfect."
So if God was loving only those who loved and obeyed him, he would be doing what Jesus told us NOT to do.

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No, Acts 26:20 specifically references WORKS BEFITTING REPENTANCE. It does not state stop doing good deeds. Works demonstrating repentance means that we have repented and turned to God - exactly what it states in this verse. In other words, we no longer sin in the ways that we did prior to being saved. It does not mean stop doing good works as you have completed twisted the text.

Strong in Him said:

No it isn't, because I have not said that they are not allowed or that we don't do them.
I said that God's love for us is not conditional on whether we do them.

If someone claimed that they were a Christian and had received God's love, but constantly sinned, were cruel to others, involved in petty crime, never read the Bible etc; obviously we could question whether or not they had really received God's love and what it, and salvation, meant to them.
That wouldn't mean that God didn't love them and was only willing to start once they showed that they loved him. It wouldn't mean that God had showed them love so that they could respond and be saved, but then withdrew it again.

God IS love.
If it were possible for him to stop loving or withdraw his love, he wouldn't be God.

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You wrote that God's love is "not conditional on whether we do them" and it wouldn't mean that God had "showed them love so that they could respond and be saved, but then withdrew it again."
If that is the case then God would be wrong in withdrawing his love for us and sending you or me to the lake of fire if we disregarded his warning to take the mark of the beast, correct? After all, according to you, God's love is unconditional so how can God place a condition on us mandating our obedience lest there be the dire consequences of eternal damnation if we disobey? In accordance with your belief, God would not be God since he chooses to withdraw his love to anyone, including believers who accept the mark of the beast.
Yes, God is love, but he mandates how we love him in return - marked by our obedience or lack of obedience and the consequences thereof.

As you can see, nobody has come up with a real answer. They talk about God's promises in the eternal future, but have nothing to say about the practical benefits of religion.
The truth is, there really are very few. I count three:
-Our religion's best practical goodness is serenity in God's Providence, which is good for your health.
-The other is fellowship, which can have enormous impact through others' generosity and connections.
-The last one isn't really well attested because (at least in my circles) it isn't practiced much: laying of hands and anointing to the sick. I suspect it has a real and supernatural healing effect with both faith and holy liturgy behind it.

Gordon H. said:

As you can see, nobody has come up with a real answer. They talk about God's promises in the eternal future, but have nothing to say about the practical benefits of religion.
The truth is, there really are very few. I count three:
-Our religion's best practical goodness is serenity in God's Providence, which is good for your health.
-The other is fellowship, which can have enormous impact through others' generosity and connections.
-The last one isn't really well attested because (at least in my circles) it isn't practiced much: laying of hands and anointing to the sick. I suspect it has a real and supernatural healing effect with both faith and holy liturgy behind it.

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The practical benefit is a real relationship with the living God, who guides you daily and has given you the Holy Spirit to empower you to live as Christ did. That's how the miracles happen, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Christians are to be vessels and conduits of His love and His power

Gordon H. said:

As you can see, nobody has come up with a real answer. They talk about God's promises in the eternal future, but have nothing to say about the practical benefits of religion.

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You must mean ... "Nobody came up with YOUR answers", ... for there are numerous worthwhile responses to the question posed by the OP in this thread ...

dysert said:

We hear it all the time: God loves you. I struggle to figure out what that looks like on a practical, here-and-now basis? I can identify lots of things that it *doesn't* mean:

• God won't let me get sick
• God will heal me when I do get sick
• God will make me happy
• God won't let me lose my job

And there are many more. Can we have a discussion on what it means, practically, to say that God loves us?

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God loves us enough to give us what we need, even though it's not always what we desire. Spare the rod spoil the child, as the saying goes.

dysert said:

Of course, that begs the question of what does it mean to "handle" something. I'm sure there have been Christians who have committed suicide. Seems that they faced something they couldn't handle.

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That's depending on what you mean by "Christian" I guess. The church has long felt that if someone actually commits suicide then it's a huge sign they don't belong to Him...

There is always hope when you have faith in God. Always.

I wasn't Christian at the time but I faced a horrific chronic pain disease (most painful chronic pain disease known to man) for which there is no cure. The pain was unimaginable and I was suicidal in the beginning.

Every day for a few months when my kids went to school I would sit with a loaded gun next to me just trying to make it through the next 60 seconds without pulling the trigger and ending the misery, every 60 seconds of the day. Talk about being in bad shape.

I prayed my way through; without God I couldn't have made it. Finally, I got to the point where I wasn't going to give up (because that mindset is giving up), that I was going to fight through and make it... and most of what kept me from pulling that trigger was my honest belief it was a sin to do so, the next was my kids.... but it truly was all that prayer - that time with God - which changed it all, yet I wasn't even saved. But God was with me, it was just a part of the road that led to knowing Him in truth.

When I changed direction - from giving up to fighting - the course of the disease changed. I found specialists, got the best pain treatment and fought through. I stopped letting the pain define me and mentally rose above it.

The disease still exists, there's truly no cure, but with God there is always hope and always a way to rise above anything mankind will face... it's rather amazing what people are capable of dealing with.

So, do I think a Christian who is truly in Christ would commit suicide? No... I really don't. They may go to a very dark place - but in Christ they won't give up unless they have serious mental health deficiencies... very serious.

dysert said:

...can we have a discussion on what it means, practically, to say that God loves us?

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One example is this:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

I think God’s love means He cares and doesn’t do anything evil to us. But, I have understood that the purpose of this “life” is that here we can experience what evil means, as people wanted to know. This is like “Matrix” where we can experience things without anything of this destroying our soul.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

In biblical point of view, soul is the important thing, body is only like a vessel for soul to experience things. Obviously, this “life” can be painful, but in Biblical point of view we should remember this is only a temporary lesson that is not even meant to last forever. And that our soul can’t be destroyed by anything of this world shows to me God’s love.