Celebrating Christmas ?

Joshua E.

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What do you think of celebrating Christmas, even Jesus was probably not born on December 25th?

And what do you think about celebrating Christmas like the world does (Christmas Tree, Presents, Santa...)


Let me know what you think.

Be blessed!
 
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public hermit

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What do you think of celebrating Christmas, even Jesus was probably not born on December 25th?

And what do you think about celebrating Christmas like the world does (Christmas Tree, Presents, Santa...)


Let me know what you think.

Be blessed!

To the first question, kind of like gifts it's the thought that counts. Does it matter if Jesus was born on the other side of the year? Not really. Does it matter that we mark the incarnation of the Son of God? Absolutely.

To the second question, I think the crass materialism of "Christmas" serves as a nice contrast to the humble, self-emptying Christ who enters the world naked. Really, it just proves the point by being what it's not supposed to be.
 
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Job3315

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What do you think of celebrating Christmas, even Jesus was probably not born on December 25th?

And what do you think about celebrating Christmas like the world does (Christmas Tree, Presents, Santa...)


Let me know what you think.

Be blessed!
I felt convicted years ago about the true meaning of Christmas; to take a time to remember and honor God’s gift to us (Jesus). I also stopped celebrating with santa. Children in my family know my gifts come from me and that I thank God for the job He provided so I could express my love for them just as God expressed His love for me. I don’t decorate with a Christmas tree, but I do decorate the house. It’s all about the symbolism and purpose behind the decoration.
 
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Aussie Pete

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What do you think of celebrating Christmas, even Jesus was probably not born on December 25th?

And what do you think about celebrating Christmas like the world does (Christmas Tree, Presents, Santa...)


Let me know what you think.

Be blessed!
Santa is Satan's way of diminishing and distracting from the real event when Jesus was born. It appeals to the world the same way as the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil appealed to Adam and Eve.

Giving gifts is fine. It is a reminder of the magi bringing gifts to the newborn Jesus. Going over the top is not so good, especially if people can't afford it.

More than anything, it is one of the few times of the year when at least some witness to the Lord Jesus makes it into the world. Many people are "C & E" - Christmas and Easter. It's an opportunity to preach the gospel to them.
 
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Gregorikos

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First of all, Jesus was probably born on December 25

Celebrate that. If you don't want a tree or lights all over the house, don't do it. I don't either. But I don't judge those who do. Christmas can be good or bad. Make it good.
 
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The Liturgist

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“Santa” is a sort of vulgar commercialization of two people who otherwise are intimately connected with the celebration of the Incarnation of our Lord: St. Nicholas the bishop of Myra, who was an early church bishop noted for three things: being unsuccessfully tortured under Emperor Diocletian in an effort to get him to renounce the faith (forensic analysis of his skull shows his nose was broken at least three times), for his staunch support of the doctrine of the deity of Christ at the Council of Nicea, where he did famously slap Arius, and lastly for saving girls from a life of prostitution by providing for their dowry from the treasury of his church, in fact apparently secretly coming in the night to do this (probably a good idea when carrying actual sacks of gold coins around in the early 300s).

The other person is the famed Cappadocian theologian and mid-4th century defender of the Nicene faith, Basil the Great, who was bishop of Caesarea (in Cappadocia, not the other one) where he made, like St. Nicholas, use of the treasury of his diocese in order to provide for the sick and the impoverished.

If one believes that Christ is the Lord, God Incarnate, than that incarnation should be celebrated, if not on the 25th, then on the 7th or the 18th with the Orthodox Christians of the Eastern Churches, whose celebration of the Nativity is much less commercialized for reasons of Islamic persecution, etc. And the memory of the defenders of the doctrine of the incarnation is historically well kept at such times. Which is to say to my knowledge neither St. Nicholas or St. Basil, being Greek, likely ever saw a reindeer, much less a flying one, but their deeds were far more relevant to the idea of Christmas and our Lord than what we attribute to them.
 
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Ezana

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What the Liturgist said should pretty much answer the question. A Christian can only hold one position as regards the celebration of Christmas:
If one believes that Christ is the Lord, God Incarnate, than that incarnation should be celebrated...
 
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GodLovesCats

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What do you think of celebrating Christmas, even Jesus was probably not born on December 25th? And what do you think about celebrating Christmas like the world does (Christmas Tree, Presents, Santa...)

I believe what most people consider to be just for marketing is actually symbolic. Here are two examples.

Santa Claus Is Coming To Town:

He knows when you are sleeping,
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you are bad or good
So be good for goodness' sake.

That looks like God to me. Nobody else always knows when you are sleeping, awake, bad, and good. Also remember no mortal human can go to every kid's house in one night, but through the Holy Spirit God can be in all of them at the same time. The Bible repeatedly stresses who is put on the nice and naughty lists. Santa also brings kids a lot more presents than they ask for and pulls off a miracle to do it. This is like if I prayed for something with low expectations, God would give me more and greater things.

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer: He was the first-born son, born in a cave with only his parents present. Only one other reindeer wanted to be his friend while the rest hated him for, of all things, a red nose that lit up. Red is the color of love. Jesus is love and the Light. The light other reindeer hated during Rudolph's first year became the salvation for them all, just like Jesus was, and they knew it.

Then how the reindeer loved him
As they shouted out with glee
Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer
You'll go down in history!
 
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GodLovesCats

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There is more. When millions of Christmas lights are displayed outside (especially white LEDs, of course), people are spreading a lot of light everywhere. Jesus is "the Light" so I see no reason not to put lights up.

Christmas trees: What is the harm? What matters is why you celebrate, not how. I never read anything in the Bible that prohibits chopping a tree, bringing it inside a house, and decorating it. Let me know if you have read something against doing it in your Bible.
 
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HisCrossMyPeace

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What do you think of celebrating Christmas, even Jesus was probably not born on December 25th?

The date (and year) Christ became man doesn’t bother me - hopefully the monk calculating this had better skills as a popely archivist than as a mathematican... We know He became man at this time of year, as it was the time when shepherds watched their flocks at night - and that’s enough for me.

And what do you think about celebrating Christmas like the world does (Christmas Tree, Presents, Santa...)!

Personally we don’t celebrate Christmas as the world do - not at all.

To average Norwgians refusing Christ into their life or denying his existence, Christmas means:
  • A garden/driveway overloaded with lights - preferable some more and some cooler than their neighbour - for getting “Christmas atmosphere”. An add-onn of some St Clauses, Norwegian style (https://3kt47z3ugr802328qe4barh2-wp.../wp-content/uploads/2017/11/nisse-500x487.jpg or https://images.clasohlson.com/medias/sys_master/hab/h27/9665849294878.jpg ) increases this “Christmas atmosphere”.
  • Some (hundred) St Clauses, Norwegian style (combination of the fat Coco-Cola “ho-ho-ho”-edition with a reindeer still not converted to dinner and having a nose more lightning than a barfly early Sunday morning + the ancient Norwegian “nisse”, a creature about 1000 years, shy, always in grey except at Chrismas time with a red beanie, belived silently watching the property and getting harm - very harm - if not getting his bowl of rice porridge every Christmas night) everywhere inside: In the window with pnats,in the sofa, in the stairs, in the bookshelfs on the tables, at the ktchens coutntertops, at the bathroom, in the ceiling lamps - continue yoursselv. Even more “Christmas athmosphere”.
  • A Christmas tree - or some Christmas trees - equally overloaded inside for getting the equal “Christmas atmosphere”
  • A Christmas service in a suitable Norwegian church (read: DnK or the former State Churh of Norway) Desember 24th, about 2 or 2.30 PM. Short service please - 30-35 minuts preferred - and a priest/pastor saying as little as possible (and definitly NOT mentioning anything not nourishing the pleasant “Christmas atmosphere” and “Christmas mood”!
  • Loads of food. (To a lot of Norwegians, the period December 24th, about, 3.30 PM - Desember 26th, bedtime is more or less one continous meal - preferably luxury food - except when sleeping or vomiting)
  • Loads of booze, especially booze marked “Christmas” (read: extra strong) and/or having a Santa Claus pictured label - Norwegian or Coca-Cola-style don’t matter.
  • A “shop-to-you-drop” (or your credit card is striking) event before Christmas, culminating at December 23rd with half an hour of queues for paying inside the shops and parking outside them. (Most Norwegian shops close noon (non-food) or 1 PM at 24th as the hourly salary are by law to be increased 50 % at noon, 100 % at 1 PM, 200 % avt 2 PM and any shop are to close for public entrance AND payment registered by the cashier no later than 3:00:00 PM). .

Lets compare:
  • Our garden - large, as we are living in a farmhouse - has one single pine with 20 light bulbs, while our garden as well as our buildings are declared an absolutely Santa Claus-free zone. (Our twins has alwas knew who to parcels are from. To band around the paper has always been attached a label like https://dms09.dimu.org/image/032ymyLKgs1S?dimension=1200x1200 (text is “Joyful Christmas”) with clearly stated “til/to” and “fra/from” name on the reverse. Before the twins vere able to read themselves, one brought parcels from the (locked) cupboard where they were stored (and where they knew parcels for Christmas was stored, they sawed us and other storing the parcels there) to me. I read the label and the ohter broght the parcel to the receiver, who opened and stored the label together with a note (by my wife) what the gift was. For last 10 years we have done similar, except the boys reading the labels and marking their labels with the gift themselves
  • Our Christmas tree is the above-mentioned pine outside, also decorated with some https://www.unghusflid.no/images/up...g_unghusflid_article_600__aktueltsakbilde.jpg made in shiny paper by our twins (how to make is basically found at https://www.altomhobby.dk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/flette-hjerter-4-300x244.png, from there the lack of handiness and creativity are your limitations and lorried with some nice for the birds when ground is frozen. (and as our cat - Norwegian forest cat, in behavior 80 % Maine Coon and 20 % lynx - consider birds like packed lunches with wings, we can only have the baskets loaded for the birds in the upper part of the pine). Just for mentioning it. A Christmas tree has never been present in the church, that havn’t even been suggestedd by anyone. Families are doing different and that’s no problem to anyone as long as remembering modesty and decoration remining of Christ (eg the Norwegain flags with cross, straw decorations, Christ’s star (the Jewish star), lights etc. Personally we both think trees are most beatiful outside and it seems like between 2/3 and 3/4 of the families in our church agree, but as mentioned no problem.
  • In non-corona-time, our church have two Christmas assemblings, we have normally been present at both. First is December 24th at 6 PM, 45-50 min and aimed the childred. (Saying anything here means that average children at 5-6 LISTENING should be able to keep the red line of understanding all the time and understand 80+ % of any details). Next is December 25th 0600-0745/0800 AM (AM is correct!) and speach aimed the adults (so yes, let the toddlers sand small children just take a nap in their parents arms!) but something for everyone. Both of then certainly NOT suitable for getting any non-beliver in “Christmas mood”, as those ignoring God consider this. Our songs are a lot to unpleasant (like Now Found Is The Fairest Of Roses and In this our happy Christmastide, the speaches just as unpleasant. Just imagine: Totally crash the idyllic Christmas mood by reminding that stables means manure or talk about WHY our Savior - the Betlehem Child - became flesh.
  • Our food is no comptetion in luxury, it’s absolutely traditial Norwegian Christmas food:
    • 24th at lunch rice porridge (https://res.cloudinary.com/norgesgr..._auto:eco,w_1600/rf2ttlfylsq32syvoyly/risgrot), at dinner (after the assembling in Church) steamed cod (the king of fishes, sutiable when celebrating that our King of Kings became flesh) with mustard sauce, green peas, rutabaga/carrot stew and boiled almond potatoes (“almond do to their shape and small size, not their taste) + cold rice porrige from lunch with sauce made of cherry cordial, water and potato starch.
    • 25th “åbit” (litteraly “bite-in”, a small first breakfast when leaving bed early) with rye bread and salted herring in mustard or tomato sauce. Some after church a nice long breakfast with different kinds of bread, different yellow/brown cheeses and different cured sausage slices + scrambled eggs with bacon + diced leftover potatoes with onion. Dinner at 2 PM with damp-boiled lamb ribs (duly smoked and cured), vossakorv (a coarse graind and rather fat lamb sausage), mashed rutabaga with some cream and loads of nutmeg and boiled potatoes + last leftover of yesterday’s rice porridge mixed with whipped cream and hot cherry juice sauce. Tea at 5 PM with the full battery (12) of different traditional Norwegian cookies for Christmas + tangeriens and dates. Finallly at 7.30 PM a light supper with bread, sliced ham sliced smoked salmom, scrambled eggs and possible sausage leftovers from dinner We have MEALS with size equal to any other day, not any “eat to you vomit, do what needed in the restroom and contine the 50-hour meal”.
  • Booze (or anything with alcohol meant for human consume) is never present in our home any day of the year. Why should Christmas be different?
  • We don’t participate in any “shop to you drop”-events, we buy what needed when needed (for use or restocking a planned storeage)
Do you see any difference in the celebration?
 
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NerdGirl

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What do you think of celebrating Christmas, even Jesus was probably not born on December 25th?

And what do you think about celebrating Christmas like the world does (Christmas Tree, Presents, Santa...)


Let me know what you think.

Be blessed!

The observation within our hearts is what matters, not the date itself.

There's nothing "ungodly" about Christmas trees. God created trees, snow, flames for candles, holly, color, beauty, all the things we enjoy about Christmas trees. There's nothing ungodly about gifts, either; in fact, giving is an incredibly godly trait. The Wise Men gave gifts to Jesus.

Santa is a harmless figure who represents generosity, kindness, goodness, and love, particularly towards children. By all means, enjoy some Santa in your Christmas.
 
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Loaves and Fishes

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This is no new understanding! But the churches of the world hide or ignore this truth! The Catholic Encyclopedia reveals: "Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. Irenaeus and Tertullian omit it from their lists of feasts…" (vol. 3, pp. 724, 728). Christmas was even briefly outlawed in Massachusetts in 1659 and in England in the mid 1600's as being unbiblical.

Understand. Before Christmas was the Roman Saturnalia, upon which Christmas is founded. Tertullian, considered an early Catholic church father, wrote that during the Saturnalia, presents were exchanged and "every pomp of the devil is frequented" (On Idolatry, circa 200–206ad).

But the Saturnalia was also simply an adaptation of something earlier—Persian Mithraism. As the Catholic Encyclopedia records: "In Mithraism, the highest god was Aion, Kronos, or Saturnus. Saturnus, the name popularized by the Roman world, was no other than the ancient Iranian [Persian] god, Zervan" (Mithraism).

The Romans eagerly adopted Mithraism in the form of the Saturnalia. Emperor Diocletian built a temple to Mithra in Carnuntum, and "The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti, the rebirth of the winter-sun" (ibid).

In Mithraism, the mid-winter festivals began with worship of Zervan, whose celebrations ended on December 24. The celebrations then transitioned to worship the reborn Zervan as the newborn Mithras, the new Saturn, born on December 25 who brought back the sun after the winter-solstice (Mithras, the Secret God, M.J. Vermaseren).

The pagan god Zervan was depicted as a winged, part-human, part-lion figure. Thus, we see that Zervan depicts angelic cherubim characteristics (2 Chronicles 3:13; Ezekiel 10:14). Further, Zervan was typically accompanied by snakes wrapped around his legs, arms or body (The Mysteries of Mithra, by Franz Cumont, 1903, page 93). Scripture reveals that Satan (formerly Lucifer) is a fallen cherub (Ezekiel 28:14–16), and is associated with the snake (Genesis 3:1–14; Revelation 20:2).

A righteous angel will not permit himself to be worshipped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). And Revelation 9:20 warns that idolaters are actually worshipping demons. Clearly, the cherub who demands his worship at the winter-solstice is no righteous angel. Whether calling himself Zervan, Saturn or another eponym, this deity is a proxy for no other than Satan, the fallen cherub!

But even the Roman Saturnalia and Persian Mithraism were adaptions of an even earlier mystery religion—the Babylonian mystery cult. The ancient Babylonians celebrated the reborn Nimrod as the newborn Tammuz by worshipping an evergreen tree (now the common Christmas tree). The Babylonians also celebrated this rebirth during the winter solstice. Jeremiah condemns ancient Israel for copying this terrible paganism, and even specifically mentions the decorated evergreen tree in Jeremiah 3:13.

Regardless of fond memories or whether "everyone does it," a true Christian will reject Christmas, not only because of the commercialism, the pagan influence, and the impossibility of Jesus being born mid-winter, but more fundamentally because Christ refuses to have any part with idolatry (2 Corinthians 6:15–16). Christ was never part of Christmas and He will not be "put back" in Christmas.

God commands us to "learn not the way of the heathen" (Jeremiah 10:2, KJV), reveals that pagan celebrations are abominations to Him (Jeremiah 10:3–4; Ezekiel 8:13–14), and tells us not to change what was taught through Christ and the Apostles (2 Thessalonians 2:15). Once this truth is understood, a true Christian will shudder at the idea of celebrating Christmas, realizing that these winter solstice celebrations are indeed Satan's celebrations.
 
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RickardoHolmes

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Regardless of fond memories or whether "everyone does it," a true Christian will reject Christmas, not only because of the commercialism, the pagan influence, and the impossibility of Jesus being born mid-winter, but more fundamentally because Christ refuses to have any part with idolatry (2 Corinthians 6:15–16). Christ was never part of Christmas and He will not be "put back" in Christmas.
Merry Christmas . Tomorrow is Epiphany which makes today the 12 th Day of Christmas ! The Most beautiful season of the year

And yes, all 5 of our trees are still up, our lights are still on and we are still celebrating in the festive season.
Amen and Happy Christmas to you
 
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