Creationists: Explain canine genetics from a creationist POV

pitabread said:

In particular:

1) What was the starting point for the domestication of canines?

2) Do wolves and domesticated dogs share a common ancestor?

3) If yes to #2, do domesticated dogs share a common ancestor with any other species (e.g. foxes, jackals, coyotes, etc.)?

4) How many Caninae "kinds" are there? How many were on the Ark (if one ascribes to those beliefs)?

5) How did the assortment of genetic traits that are in domesticated dogs arise? How are those genetic traits distributed in the originating populations?

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1 God

2 Yes, God

3 Yes, God

4 As many as God feel that was needed, a perfect number.

5 God put those traits in and and distributed them as needed by His power.

Well, that was easy.

As Cher would say, is a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] still a dog when no one is looking

pitabread said:

1) What was the starting point for the domestication of canines?

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Jonathan Walkerin said:

1 God

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I would like you to expand on this, if you would, please.

Domestication "is the process of adapting wild plants and animals for human use."

Are you saying that God domesticated dogs for our use? (And maize and bananas?)

Rather than asking about a 'starting point', perhaps it is better to think about 'when'.

When did this domestication take place? Were dogs domesticated 'from the start' by God? Or did it happen later? Was it done by God or humans?

essentialsaltes said:

I would like you to expand on this, if you would, please.

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You know no creationists will ever answer those questions so I just expedited the thread a bit.

Catholic Church is just fine with theistic evolution.

You know with these questions you just get the usual sure men domesticated dogs but God was with them in spirit and let them speak dog language or timelines yeah sure it was 60000 years ago, but in God compressed time ultra lux compressed time with devil hiding the evidence it was really 6000 years or whatever.

Creationist don’t have any answers and they won’t go to details because they always get clobbered with them so it is pretty futile to ask them to go to specifics.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

1 God

2 Yes, God

3 Yes, God

4 As many as God feel that was needed, a perfect number.

5 God put those traits in and and distributed them as needed by His power.

Well, that was easy.

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Never mind

1) What was the starting point for the domestication of canines?

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Not sure tbh. Perhaps the starting point most likely occurred when man decided to breed differing types of wild canines from the Neolithic age as that is the eariest piece of evidence we have of domesticated dogs as far as I'm aware.

2) Do wolves and domesticated dogs share a common ancestor?

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Most likely the wolves of today and domesticated dogs of today do share a piece of genetic material from a canine descendant or two now extinct.

3) If yes to #2, do domesticated dogs share a common ancestor with any other species (e.g. foxes, jackals, coyotes, etc.)?

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Domesticated dogs of today may have some genetic traits of foxes, jackals, coyotes, eg., Not sure.

4) How many Caninae "kinds" are there? How many were on the Ark (if one ascribes to those beliefs)?

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There are certainly many variations of canine today. The illustration is not necessarily accurate in terms that the gray wolf was on the Ark, but it does display that from just one canine, its genetic makeup is rich enough to exhibit many variations of canines. So really, you wouldn't require hundreds of canines on the Ark to accommodate the many variations of canines we see today, probably only need two or three pairs, though, the Bible says seven pairs, so I guess seven pairs will suffice from the perspective that Genesis is history. (Gen. 7:2)

5) How did the assortment of genetic traits that are in domesticated dogs arise? How are those genetic traits distributed in the originating populations?

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Professional breeding through time and experience, essentially.

Abraxos said:

Not sure tbh. Perhaps the starting point most likely occurred when man decided to breed differing types of wild canines from the Neolithic age as that is the eariest piece of evidence we have of domesticated dogs as far as I'm aware.


Most likely the wolves of today and domesticated dogs of today do share a piece of genetic material from a canine descendant or two now extinct.


Domesticated dogs of today may have some genetic traits of foxes, jackals, coyotes, eg., Not sure.

There are certainly many variations of canine today. The illustration is not necessarily accurate in terms that the gray wolf was on the Ark, but it does display that from just one canine, its genetic makeup is rich enough to exhibit many variations of canines. So really, you wouldn't require hundreds of canines on the Ark to accommodate the many variations of canines we see today, probably only need two or three pairs, though, the Bible says seven pairs, so I guess seven pairs will suffice from the perspective that Genesis is history. (Gen. 7:2)


Professional breeding through time and experience, essentially.

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The "seven pairs" is wrong. Tell me, is dog meat kosher? Are Jews allowed to eat it? The seven animals, and some think it was six females and one male not seven pairs, applied only to kosher animals. The rest had to make do with two.

Subduction Zone said:

The "seven pairs" is wrong. Tell me, is dog meat kosher? Are Jews allowed to eat it? The seven animals, and some think it was six females and one male not seven pairs, applied only to kosher animals. The rest had to make do with two.

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Yeah, you're right, Bible says "seven pairs of clean animals", which I have to assume is referring to animals clean for sacrificial offerings, not clean to eat as that didn't take place until the Levitical law; And 'Jew' means a person from Judah (one of the twelve tribes of Israel ) which obviously wasn't established in the time of the Patriarch Noah.

In regards to the number of pairs of every kind of animal (canine in particular), Bible says two male and female, basically, one pair of canine after its kind - just like one pair of bird after its kind. It seems that there is a lot more diversity in the term 'Kinds' as indicated in Genesis 6:20 & 7:3. Genesis 7:3 is specific that the seven pairs of every bird after its kind is for variety to populate the earth, meaning a richer gene pool for that diversity of kinds of birds. If we are to also apply this to one pair of canine after its kind, it would mean that there are canines of wolves, foxes, coyotes, wild dog (?), etc., under the umbrella term 'Kinds'.

• One pair of Wolves
• One pair of Foxes
• One pair of Coyotes
• One pair of Wild Dogs (?)
• One pair of Jackels
• Etc.

So, strictly speaking in what the Bible says in terms of the number of canines that were potentially brought onto the Ark could well have been more than one pair and more on the lines if I am to speculate six or seven kinds of canines.

But I think the main point is that hundreds of canines are not required to be on the Ark to make up the various types of 'canine species' we have today. I think the American YEC's POV of one pair of "Dog" is all that was taken onto the Ark seems inaccurate from a scriptural standpoint, but I am open to being corrected on the matter.