Only two covenants are presented in the New Testament

mkgal1 · Dec 23, 2020

Guojing said:
There is only one gospel that saves now, that I agree with you.

But God has released different good news to different audience in different points of time in Scripture.

It all ties together into one message. God is love....and Jesus is the embodiment of His love.

BABerean2 · Dec 23, 2020

Guojing said:
My point is that the gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel that saves for the Body of Christ.

That is what you say.
But it is not what the Bible says.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

.

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Timtofly · Dec 23, 2020

Guojing said:
no, if Israel had accepted Jesus as their messiah by acts 7, we gentiles would have been saved thru their rise (genesis 12:3), instead of their fall (romans 11:11)

You are still putting it on a human whim. Humans have changed history dozens of times, but Only the Cross gave us the Atonement. It was by faith since Abel. The Jews turning to Christ would just mean less souls in sheol and more in Paradise.

Timtofly · Dec 23, 2020

jgr said:
Every time Scripture mentions the elect, it always refers to the Church.

It is to the elect that 1 Peter was written.

The elect is the whole world, so the whole world received this message. There is no difference....

That the majority elected, chose not to accept, means that God did not reject their rejection, even if they were Jews. The church cannot reject, else would stop being the church, by definition.

The church is separated from Israel, because Israel can reject. What is so difficult about rejecting?

Guojing · Dec 23, 2020

mkgal1 said:
There is only ONE Gospel that saves.

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.

Yes, as I said, that is only one gospel that saves now for the Body of Christ, that is found in 1 Cor 15:1-4.

But we gentiles were excluded from any salvation plan in time past (Ephesians 2:11-12), when the gospel of the kingdom was only for Israel (Matthew 10:5-7)

Guojing · Dec 23, 2020

mkgal1 said:
Yes, we know you always separate Israel from the Church/Body of Christ....but this passage from Peter does not do that:

1 Peter 2
4As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men but chosen and precious in God’s sight, 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Peter restricted himself in Galatians 2:9 to preach only to the circumcised.

Only Jews are supposed to be a holy priesthood, not gentiles, as stated in Exodus 19:6

Guojing · Dec 23, 2020

Timtofly said:
You are still putting it on a human whim. Humans have changed history dozens of times, but Only the Cross gave us the Atonement. It was by faith since Abel. The Jews turning to Christ would just mean less souls in sheol and more in Paradise.

It was always by faith in all time periods, that is true. Believing that Jesus is their Messiah required faith from Jews too.

Timtofly · Dec 23, 2020

jgr said:
Nation is singular.

I bet you are glad it said every and not all. Does not every nation, mean all of them, or is there only one nation and it is Israel?

Timtofly · Dec 23, 2020

BABerean2 said:
That is what you say.
But it is not what the Bible says.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Guojing was talking about the parables Jesus taught. They are based on works and God being physically on earth. Most are not about the Atonement and the church. Some of them that applied to the rebellious Jews, can now, only apply to the church. The church is now in the same position with the Second Coming upon the earth, just as the Jews were at the first coming. And the majority of the church has moved to a works based Gospel that is not the Atonement Gospel. If posters here refuse to acknowledge that, and pile onto a single poster pointing out the facts, they should be ashamed.

jgr · Dec 23, 2020

Guojing said:
No.

Then why do you continually attempt to exhume the past and impose it upon the present?

Guojing · Dec 23, 2020

jgr said:
Then why do you continually attempt to exhume the past and impose it upon the present?

Its called progressive revelation.

You don't take current revelation, that God revealed for us thru the Apostle Paul, and impose that understanding on the past, during the time period of the Old Testament.

Guojing · Dec 23, 2020

Timtofly said:
Guojing was talking about the parables Jesus taught. They are based on works and God being physically on earth. Most are not about the Atonement and the church. Some of them that applied to the rebellious Jews, can now, only apply to the church. The church is now in the same position with the Second Coming upon the earth, just as the Jews were at the first coming. And the majority of the church has moved to a works based Gospel that is not the Atonement Gospel. If posters here refuse to acknowledge that, and pile onto a single poster pointing out the facts, they should be ashamed.

Thanks, I am used to it among the people here who are frequently operating together, jgr, mkgal, BABerean2, Spiritual Jew et al.

The idea of progressive revelation is generally difficult for many Christians to understand. I have lost count of the number of times they always quote Galatians 1:6-9 to me, whenever I point out to them that the gospel of the kingdom is different from the gospel that was revealed to Paul by the ascended Christ alone (Galatians 1:11-12)

jgr · Dec 23, 2020

Guojing said:
Its called progressive revelation.

You don't take current revelation, that God revealed for us thru the Apostle Paul, and impose that understanding on the past, during the time period of the Old Testament.

There's nothing progressive about an old, decayed, vanished carcass. (Hebrews 8:13)

mkgal1 · Dec 24, 2020

Guojing said:
Yes, as I said, that is only one gospel that saves now for the Body of Christ, that is found in 1 Cor 15:1-4.

But we gentiles were excluded from any salvation plan in time past (Ephesians 2:11-12), when the gospel of the kingdom was only for Israel (Matthew 10:5-7)

There was always a provision for foreigners to join with the Israelite assembly....

Isaiah 56:6-7
And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD to minister to Him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be His servants—all who keep the Sabbath without profaning it and who hold fast to My covenant—I will bring them to My holy mountain and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on My altar, for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Guojing · Dec 24, 2020

mkgal1 said:
There was always a provision for foreigners to join with the Israelite assembly....

Isaiah 56:6-7
And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD to minister to Him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be His servants—all who keep the Sabbath without profaning it and who hold fast to My covenant—I will bring them to My holy mountain and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on My altar, for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Yes, as you stated, they had to become Jews to be included in the salvation plan in time past (Esther 8:17).

They could not be saved without Israel then, unlike in the but now time period that we are in, where we are now saved without going thru Israel (Romans 11:11)

mkgal1 · Dec 24, 2020

Guojing said:
Yes, as you stated, they had to become Jews to be included in the salvation plan in time past (Esther 8:17).

They could not be saved without Israel then, unlike in the but now time period that we are in, where we are now saved without going thru Israel (Romans 11:11)

There was no salvation until the Cross.....for anyone.

jgr · Dec 24, 2020

Guojing said:
But we gentiles were excluded from any salvation plan in time past (Ephesians 2:11-12), when the gospel of the kingdom was only for Israel (Matthew 10:5-7)

Completely false.

The nation of Israel was comprised of both Jews and Gentiles from its birth and throughout its history. (Genesis 17:12;Exodus 12:48;Exodus 12:49;Leviticus 19:34;Leviticus 24:22)

God's covenant was with the faithful and obedient, both Jew and Gentile, within the nation.

The unfaithful and disobedient, He slew by the thousands.

Including pedigreed Jews.

Their Jewish DNA did not save them.

Nor will it ever.

Guojing · Dec 24, 2020

mkgal1 said:
There was no salvation until the Cross.....for anyone.

They don't have the present salvation we have, in the body of Christ, the moment we believed, under the gospel of grace.

What the nation Israel had was a future salvation when Christ returns for them in his 2nd coming. (Acts 3:19-21, 1 Peter 1:3-9)

In the meantime, they were all placed in Abraham's bosom or Paradise at their deaths.

Guojing · Dec 24, 2020

jgr said:
Completely false.

The nation of Israel was comprised of both Jews and Gentiles from its birth and throughout its history. (Genesis 17:12;Exodus 12:48;Exodus 12:49;Leviticus 19:34;Leviticus 24:22)

God's covenant was with the faithful and obedient, both Jew and Gentile, within the nation.

The unfaithful and disobedient, He slew by the thousands.

Including pedigreed Jews.

Their Jewish DNA did not save them.

Nor will it ever.

They also had to believe of course, but the point is Gentiles in time past had to go thru 2 steps.

They have to first become Jews,
Then they had to believe.

jgr · Dec 24, 2020

Guojing said:
They also had to believe of course, but the point is Gentiles in time past had to go thru 2 steps.

They have to first become Jews,
Then they had to believe.

I've just demonstrated from Scripture that they were Gentiles, and remained Gentiles.

Their DNA did not change.

Only two covenants are presented in the New Testament

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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