The Rapture theory is true?

Spiritual Jew said:

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here. And that's okay. We just think very differently which makes it difficult to get our ideas across to each other.

My takeaway from your post is that it's amazing to me that you can see parallels within this passage but cannot see parallels within the book of Revelation. I honestly don't get that at all.

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One thing is clear, I put much more weight on 3b: "IS revealed" than you do.
The parallels are easy to see:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you see the apostasia as the restrainer taken out of the way, it makes a three part parallel.

In all three cases, the man of sin is revealed, and in two cases ONLY after the restrainer is gone.
That causes me to think that in verse 3 Paul did the same thing - that hidden in apostasia is the restrainer taken out of the way. I think you agree with this.

Just for the record, I DO see parallels in Revelation, from chapters 13 to 16, there are five parallel countdowns to the end of the week, all counting down in the background.

iamlamad said:

By the way, since we both see the main theme as the rapture, where do you see Paul getting to the rapture?

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In verse 1.

I don't believe he mentions it specifically after that, though he does mention the Lord's second coming in verse 8 which is when the rapture occurs.

It would seem to me strange that He would say Day of the Lord if He meant rapture. In his first letter, the Day seems to follow the rapture. And in His second letter, it was their great tribulation that made them THINK they were in the Day. In other words, they were comparing the Day with bad tribulation, not the rapture. They were upset because they thought they had MISSED the rapture or else thought Paul was mistaken and the DAY would come first.

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I can't follow what you're saying here because I believe the rapture and Christ's wrath against unbelievers happen on the same day. There's nothing confusing to me about that.

I think the KJV caused massive preconceived ideas: from that time on no translation wrote "Departing."

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Arguing over translations is tiresome and I'm done with it. Believe what you will.

If I say departing from the earth, and you say departing from the faith, we are both adding meaning.

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Show me when I've ever said otherwise.

iamlamad said:

Question: have you ever noticed you were wrong about something since coming to this forum and made an appropriate change?

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My psychiatrist claims that is an impossibility according to my mental evaluation.

I am not perfect, nor ever claimed to be.

Spiritual Jew said:

In verse 1.

I don't believe he mentions it specifically after that, though he does mention the Lord's second coming in verse 8 which is when the rapture occurs.

I can't follow what you're saying here because I believe the rapture and Christ's wrath against unbelievers happen on the same day. There's nothing confusing to me about that.

Arguing over translations is tiresome and I'm done with it. Believe what you will.

Show me when I've ever said otherwise.

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How strange that Paul sets his theme for the passage as the gathering - but then never gets to it!
Do you not find that odd?

On the other hand, if the apostasia departing is a reference to the rapture, then Paul DID get to it!

I can't follow what you're saying here because I believe the rapture and Christ's wrath against unbelievers happen on the same day. Actually, I agree.

The rapture will trigger the Day and the worldwide earthquake as God raises the dead, and Paul likens this sudden destruction with God's wrath. Whether or not the 6th seal earthquake is God's wrath I cannot prove. Rosenthal and Van Kampen did not think so. They say wrath starts with the first trumpet. If so, why did Paul write that God was not setting appointments for us with His wrath? I see the flip side of that as God DID or WILL set appointments for those left behind who suffer the sudden destruction.

iamlamad said:

You are thinking reality and Paul was only using a verbal argument. Of course Paul was not saying that in fact the man of sin had been revealed.

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No, he had not been revealed, but he had been born, and was at that time a grown man who was at that time being restrained from his takeover of the 2nd temple, and the Thessalonians knew who (or what) was at that time restraining that grown Man.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-6
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.

Timtofly said:

My psychiatrist claims that is an impossibility according to my mental evaluation.

I am not perfect, nor ever claimed to be.

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Thanks for answering. I have yet to see you to acknowledge anything when proven wrong with scripture. It seems you just ignore scriptures that are against what you write. I understand, proof to one may not be proof to another. But this happens over and over and over with you.

Perhaps what you are saying is, so far in your mind, you have never been mistaken? No one has proved you mistaken with scripture?

Here is an example:
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Here God is saying that He has a Spirit and man has a spirit. God is comparing Himself and man. This clearly shows "the spirit of man which is in him." It cannot be talking about the Holy Spirit. It is the spirit of man or a man's spirit. Yet you have been adamant that man does not have a spirit except the Holy Spirit. I have been adamant that the very life inside the man is the spirit of the man which God breathed into Adam. Our spirit inside knows us, and God's spirit knows Him.

parousia70 said:

No, he had not been revealed, but he had been born, and was at that time a grown man who was at that time being restrained from his takeover of the 2nd temple, and the Thessalonians knew who (or what) was at that time restraining that grown Man.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-6
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.

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I think this is myth. But who am I?

iamlamad said:

One thing is clear, I put much more weight on 3b: "IS revealed" than you do.

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That is absolutely false. You interpret the verse differently than I do. It has nothing to do with how much weight we put on any certain part of it. The idea Paul was getting across is that they should know that they hadn't missed the day of the Lord because the falling away and man of sin being revealed had to happen first.

Just for the record, I DO see parallels in Revelation, from chapters 13 to 16, there are five parallel countdowns to the end of the week, all counting down in the background.

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I'm almost shocked to see this. So, since you do allow for parallels in Revelation why can't you see the parallels between Rev 16:16, 19:11-21 and 20:7-9? In each case they describe an army of unbelievers coming against Christ and His people. If only you could see that you should not take what is written in those passages literally and instead see them as symbolic representations of the wicked of the world opposing Christ and His church, then I think you would. But, your pre-trib dispensational viewpoint prevents you from seeing that.

iamlamad said:

How strange that Paul sets his theme for the passage as the gathering - but then never gets to it!
Do you not find that odd?

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Not at all. Let me clarify what I believe His main theme is. His main theme is not just the the gathering of believers, but also the other part of what occurs at Christ's coming, which is His vengeance on unbelievers. He does allude to that in verses 8 and 12.

On the other hand, if the apostasia departing is a reference to the rapture, then Paul DID get to it!

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I see no reason to think that he needed to refer to it specifically after verse 2 (the day of the Lord = the second coming and all it entails, including the rapture). The focus of the passage is much more on what happens to unbelievers when Christ comes (see verses 8-12) than what happens to believers. I imagine that is because he already wrote to them in detail about what happens to believers on that day in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 2 Thess 1:10.

I can't follow what you're saying here because I believe the rapture and Christ's wrath against unbelievers happen on the same day. Actually, I agree.

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But, we don't agree that the wrath that Paul says comes suddenly on the day of the Lord is the same wrath that Peter says will come on the day of the Lord in 2 Peter 3:10-13. It's very obvious to me that they are speaking of the same thing because, for one thing, they are both speaking of events in relation to God's wrath that comes at the second coming of Christ. Also, Paul said that "they will not escape" and with fire coming down on the entire earth, as Peter mentioned, it makes sense that they would not escape that.

The rapture will trigger the Day and the worldwide earthquake as God raises the dead, and Paul likens this sudden destruction with God's wrath. Whether or not the 6th seal earthquake is God's wrath I cannot prove. Rosenthal and Van Kampen did not think so. They say wrath starts with the first trumpet. If so, why did Paul write that God was not setting appointments for us with His wrath? I see the flip side of that as God DID or WILL set appointments for those left behind who suffer the sudden destruction.

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We've already been over this, but I'll say again that what is described in Rev 6:12-17 is all symbolic language. I pointed out before that it can't be speaking of literal stars falling to the earth because that would completely annihilate the earth. It's all symbolic language to describe the totality of the destruction that will occur when Christ returns (which lines up with 2 Peter 3:10-13).

As to whether it describes God's wrath or not...why do you need anyone to help you determine that? It obviously is.

Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

I am honestly completely baffled as to how you would wonder whether this is describing the wrath of God or not. Isn't it obvious?

Spiritual Jew said:

You said there is no bodily resurrection. That is heresy. You are denying a fundamental belief of Christianity. I believe your posts need to be deleted and you need to not be allowed to post here anymore if you're going to keep saying things like that. Do you not even believe Jesus was resurrected bodily from the dead?

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Jesus Christ was the resurrection that proves all in Christ are resurrected. He is coming for those alive and remain.

Spiritual Jew said:

What about Paul saying that the bodily resurrection and glorifying of our bodies doesn't occur until the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:50-54)? He gave no indication that it had occurred yet when he wrote 1 Corinthians, so when did or when will the seventh trumpet sound to signal the time of the resurrection of the dead and changing of our bodies?

To say that it happens for each person upon death completely contradicts what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15.

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50 Let me say this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot share in the Kingdom of God, nor can something that decays share in what does not decay. 51 Look, I will tell you a secret — not all of us will die! But we will all be changed!

The flesh that decays cannot share in what does not decay. We all will be changed. Paul has been changed.

Paul said those alive will have to wait, not those who have already passed from death to life.

iamlamad said:

Thanks for answering. I have yet to see you to acknowledge anything when proven wrong with scripture. It seems you just ignore scriptures that are against what you write. I understand, proof to one may not be proof to another. But this happens over and over and over with you.

Perhaps what you are saying is, so far in your mind, you have never been mistaken? No one has proved you mistaken with scripture?

Here is an example:
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Here God is saying that He has a Spirit and man has a spirit. God is comparing Himself and man. This clearly shows "the spirit of man which is in him." It cannot be talking about the Holy Spirit. It is the spirit of man or a man's spirit. Yet you have been adamant that man does not have a spirit except the Holy Spirit. I have been adamant that the very life inside the man is the spirit of the man which God breathed into Adam. Our spirit inside knows us, and God's spirit knows Him.

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In the last 9 months I have changed drastically in my understanding of things. I was wrong before. I am here to point out things for people to think about. Not really a debate on who is right or who is wrong.

Yes our spirit is in the presence of God. It is the soul and body spiritually dead, not our spirit. Our spirit would abhor this world of flesh. Now tell me where demons come from in Scripture. Demons love this sinful flesh, the reprobate soul turned the spirit into a sin loving death hungry demon.

A spirit in a man, is a conundrum. The spirit is the outer robe of light.

Spiritual Jew said:

In verse 1.

I don't believe he mentions it specifically after that, though he does mention the Lord's second coming in verse 8 which is when the rapture occurs.

I can't follow what you're saying here because I believe the rapture and Christ's wrath against unbelievers happen on the same day. There's nothing confusing to me about that.

Arguing over translations is tiresome and I'm done with it. Believe what you will.

Show me when I've ever said otherwise.

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I don't think you are being honest with your theory here. Why?
You put zero weight on "is revealed" yet you admit that the falling away is what allows the revealing.

Therefore, by your own admissions, in verse three we have the same parallel as in 6 and as in 7 & 8. We have the restrainer removed as in the falling away, and then the man of sin revealed.

In verse 6 we have the restrainer and then the revealing
In verse 7 we have the restrainer and in verse 8 we have the revealing.

In other words, the way this is written forces one to admit that hidden in that word apostasia is the restraining force being "gone from the midst" as one guy said it should be translated, or "taken out of the way."

Your theory then is that due to the falling away, the Holy Spirit has fewer people to work through, so His restraining power is diminished.
Do you agree?

Timtofly said:

In the last 9 months I have changed drastically in my understanding of things. I was wrong before. I am here to point out things for people to think about. Not really a debate on who is right or who is wrong.

Yes our spirit is in the presence of God. It is the soul and body spiritually dead, not our spirit. Our spirit would abhor this world of flesh. Now tell me where demons come from in Scripture. Demons love this sinful flesh, the reprobate soul turned the spirit into a sin loving death hungry demon.

A spirit in a man, is a conundrum. The spirit is the outer robe of light.

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The truth is, the spirit in the man is the LIFE in the man, no conundrum. Your theory of a robe of light is just plain bogus.

The bible simply does not tell us where demons come from. Some guess from a previous world before Adam.

You surprised me. You can admit you were wrong. This is great! I congratulate you.

Timtofly said:

50 Let me say this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot share in the Kingdom of God, nor can something that decays share in what does not decay. 51 Look, I will tell you a secret — not all of us will die! But we will all be changed!

The flesh that decays cannot share in what does not decay. We all will be changed. Paul has been changed.

Paul said those alive will have to wait, not those who have already passed from death to life.

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Did you notice that the "Shall be" or "will be" is future tense? We don't form doctrine by one isolated verse. WE take all verses on the subject. Paul tells us "at the last trump" and tells us it will happen just before wrath (1 thes. 4 & 5.) NO WHERE does he tell us this "change" happens at death. That theory is bogus too. No, Paul has not been changed. The change will happen AT THE RAPTURE. We will be caught up, and then changed. Paul is one of the "dead in Christ."

Timtofly said:

Jesus Christ was the resurrection that proves all in Christ are resurrected. He is coming for those alive and remain.

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Where do you get these crazy ideas? Did you just forget that "the dead in Christ shall rise first?" Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up WITH THEM (the dead who were just caught up) and TOGETHER.....here it is in three different translations.

1 Thes. 4 KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Amp
16 For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the [blast of the] trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord!

Exb
16 The Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud ·command [or shout], ·with [or accompanied by; or preceded by] the voice of the archangel [C a leading or ruling angel; Dan. 10:13; Jude 9], and with the trumpet call of God. And ·those who have died believing [L the dead] in Christ will rise first [1 Cor. 15:51–57].
17 After that, we who are ·still alive [or alive and are left] will be ·gathered [caught; taken] up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And [L so; in this way] we will be with the Lord forever.

In other words, He, Jesus, is coming for HIS BRIDE: both those who have died previously and those who are alive at the time He comes.

Spiritual Jew said:

Not at all. Let me clarify what I believe His main theme is. His main theme is not just the the gathering of believers, but also the other part of what occurs at Christ's coming, which is His vengeance on unbelievers. He does allude to that in verses 8 and 12.

I see no reason to think that he needed to refer to it specifically after verse 2 (the day of the Lord = the second coming and all it entails, including the rapture). The focus of the passage is much more on what happens to unbelievers when Christ comes (see verses 8-12) than what happens to believers. I imagine that is because he already wrote to them in detail about what happens to believers on that day in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 2 Thess 1:10.

But, we don't agree that the wrath that Paul says comes suddenly on the day of the Lord is the same wrath that Peter says will come on the day of the Lord in 2 Peter 3:10-13. It's very obvious to me that they are speaking of the same thing because, for one thing, they are both speaking of events in relation to God's wrath that comes at the second coming of Christ. Also, Paul said that "they will not escape" and with fire coming down on the entire earth, as Peter mentioned, it makes sense that they would not escape that.

We've already been over this, but I'll say again that what is described in Rev 6:12-17 is all symbolic language. I pointed out before that it can't be speaking of literal stars falling to the earth because that would completely annihilate the earth. It's all symbolic language to describe the totality of the destruction that will occur when Christ returns (which lines up with 2 Peter 3:10-13).

As to whether it describes God's wrath or not...why do you need anyone to help you determine that? It obviously is.

Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

I am honestly completely baffled as to how you would wonder whether this is describing the wrath of God or not. Isn't it obvious?

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His real main them is made very clear by his choice of words:
"By"
"As touching"
"In regard to"
"Concerning"
"about"
"in Connection with"

the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering to meet Him.

This is not just a disagreement over words: it is understanding the English language: Paul is telling us THIS SUBJECT is what I am going to be writing about.

Take careful note: He COULD have written:
"Concerning the Day of the Lord" but he didn't.
"Concerning the revealing of the man of sin" but he didn't.

I can guess - and it is only a guess - the reason he stated it like this is because the timing of the rapture in relation to the Day of the Lord is WHY THEY WROTE TO HIM asking him. It seems some or all of them had begun to believe that the DAY had come and they were IN IT, but were not raptured or caught up.

(the day of the Lord = the second coming and all it entails, including the rapture).
Yet, not one hint of anything good about the DAY in all of the OT mentions of this Day of the Lord. Even Paul, in 1 Thes. 5 compares the Day of the Lord to "sudden destruction" and to His wrath.

Because God will set no appointments for us with His wrath, I believe the rapture will come first, and then the Day of Wrath will begin, as if the rapture will be the trigger for the Day. The DAY is a dark day of destruction. WHY do I believe this?

Amos 5:18
Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.

If the Rapture and Day of the Lord were speaking of the same thing; this verse makes no sense: We all eagerly wait for the rapture, so if they are the same, this verse is wrong.

Which one of these verses gives us ANY hint of a rapture / gathering as part of the DAY?


Isaiah 2:12
For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: [The Day of the Lord is for the proud.]

Isaiah 13:6
Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. [The day of the Lord is destruction.]

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. [the Day of the Lord is cruel and comes with fierce anger.]

Isaiah 34:8
For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Jeremiah 46:10
For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord God of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
[The day of the Lord is about vengeance.]

Lamentations 2:22
Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the Lord's anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.
[The day of the Lord is a day of anger.]

Ezekiel 13:5
Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord. [the Day of the Lord will include BATTLE.]

Ezekiel 30:3
For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen. [The Day of the Lord is for the heathen.]

Joel 1:15
Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come. [The Day of the Lord is about destruction. "Alas" for that day.]

Joel 2:11
And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it? [The Day of the Lord is very terrible and who can abide it?]

Amos 5:20
Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it? [Does this sound like the rapture?]

Obadiah 1:15
For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. [The Day of the Lord is for the heathen, not the saved.]

Zephaniah 1:7
Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord God: for the day of the Lord is at hand: for the Lord hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. [The Day of the Lord will include a great sacrifice of the guests invited: THEY are the sacrifice. This tells me that Armageddon will be a part of the Day of the Lord.]

Zephaniah 1:8
And it shall come to pass in the day of the Lord's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel [The Day of the Lord is about punishment. ]

Zephaniah 1:14
The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. [The Day of the Lord is when people cry bitterly.]

Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the Lord's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land. [The land is devoured by fire during the Day of the Lord.]

Zephaniah 2:2
Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you. [The Lord's anger is FIERCE during the Day.]

Zephaniah 2:3
Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger. [There will be an escape and a hiding place during the Day.]

Zechariah 14:1
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. [Spoil speaks of battle and being overcome.]

Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
[The Day of the Lord will be a dreadful day.]

Again, I ask: in which of these verses can you find a hint of a rapture or gathering to Him?

Spiritual Jew said:

I see no reason to think that he needed to refer to it specifically after verse 2 (the day of the Lord = the second coming and all it entails, including the rapture). The focus of the passage is much more on what happens to unbelievers when Christ comes (see verses 8-12) than what happens to believers. I imagine that is because he already wrote to them in detail about what happens to believers on that day in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 2 Thess 1:10.

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It would be very strange to say "I'm writing to you concerning the rapture" and then never get to the rapture. In my way of thinking, he DID get to the rapture. But he did it in a way that most miss it. WHY? We will have to ask him.

Spiritual Jew said:

But, we don't agree that the wrath that Paul says comes suddenly on the day of the Lord is the same wrath that Peter says will come on the day of the Lord in 2 Peter 3:10-13. It's very obvious to me that they are speaking of the same thing because, for one thing, they are both speaking of events in relation to God's wrath that comes at the second coming of Christ. Also, Paul said that "they will not escape" and with fire coming down on the entire earth, as Peter mentioned, it makes sense that they would not escape that.

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We are not going to agree here because I see TWO more comings and you see only one. I see "The Day" starting before the 7 years, and lasting at least through the 7 years to and including His coming after the 7 years. I don't see Him coming with fire for the rapture - just one of the reasons I see two more comings.

Spiritual Jew said:

But, we don't agree that the wrath that Paul says comes suddenly on the day of the Lord is the same wrath that Peter says will come on the day of the Lord in 2 Peter 3:10-13. It's very obvious to me that they are speaking of the same thing because, for one thing, they are both speaking of events in relation to God's wrath that comes at the second coming of Christ. Also, Paul said that "they will not escape" and with fire coming down on the entire earth, as Peter mentioned, it makes sense that they would not escape that.

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When God is angry He will STAY angry until the reason for His anger is gone. He is angry with a world that wants to ignore Him and do their own thing. So His anger begins at the 6th or 7th seal and then continues on through the entire 7 years, and past that to His third coming. So OF COURSE it is the same wrath: it is GOD'S wrath. It is the same wrath in the first trumpet as in the final vial filled with His wrath.

Since the Day of the Lord is an EXTENDED period of time lasting AT LEAST 7 plus years, many things will happen INSIDE the day of the Lord. In fact, the entire 70th week is found INSIDE the Day of the Lord. That means the 7 trumpet judgments and the 7 bowl judgments are all INSIDE the DAY. That means, AFTER the 7 trumpets and 7 bowls, it will extend to His 3rd coming to Armageddon.

I just had a thought; God the Father has had anger from Rev. 6 to Rev 16, but the Father and Jesus are probably not angry at the marriage and supper just before Armageddon. Does God lay aside His fierce anger for that few days of time?