Is it against the Church to be an organ donor?

Victor in Christ · Oct 6, 2020

AMM said:
But to the point of Victor in Christ, our organs do not belong to us. Neither does our life. Simply because, nothing “belongs” to us, all is a gift from Christ and His great mercy.

I didn’t interpret Victor’s statement as supporting Gnosticism, so perhaps he can clarify what he meant so we can be sure we understand what we’re discussing

Yeah, what i meant in post 25, but didn't elaborate on it. When we die our organs may help others through an illness, ease their pain BUT more importantly and only for the Glory of the Lord, it may be God's divine way of convicting that person they are sinners and need Salvation or help them grow as Christians for the furtherance of the gospel. They may want to thank that person's family (which is very common in the time we live in), but we pray and hope that person will thank the Lord 1st and foremost and become a strong believer in Christ.

God Bless

Tolworth John · Oct 10, 2020

Justin-H.S. said:
Gnosticism.

There is no secret knowledge in that, no grading of people into spiritual' or non spiritual and no special message.

Jesus commands us to love others as he has loved us, with a sacrifical love.

Justin-H.S. · Oct 10, 2020

Tolworth John said:
There is no secret knowledge in that, no grading of people into spiritual' or non spiritual and no special message.

Depends on the context of what you mean by “You have no longer any need of those organs...etc.” If you meant a perfectly healthy adult should donate his liver for a person in need because he no longer ‘needs’ it because the spiritual is placed above the physical, then yeah, that’s gnostic thinking, but I doubt that’s what you meant, so please forgive me for I may have been possessed by a demon on that day to have falsely accused you.

Tolworth John said:
Why?
You have no longer any need of those organs and they could save or make someone's life better.
Jesus gave his body for us, so we can give bits of ours for others.

Tolworth John · Oct 10, 2020

Justin-H.S. said:
Depends on the context of what you mean by “You have no longer any need of those organs...etc.” If you meant a perfectly healthy adult should donate his liver for a person in need because he no longer ‘needs’ it because the spiritual is placed above the physical, then yeah, that’s gnostic thinking, but I doubt that’s what you meant, so please forgive me for I may have been possessed by a demon on that day to have falsely accused you.

I assumed the post was about coming after death.

Justin-H.S. · Oct 10, 2020

Tolworth John said:
I assumed the post was about coming after death.

Even in death we (as in Orthodox Christians) believe in a bodily resurrection, so I’m not sure if we’re supposed to be resurrected sans body parts, but then again many were martyred with decapitation so who knows? I think it depends on the circumstances of the death.

rusmeister · Oct 10, 2020

Our bodies are not our own.
I think there is a significant difference between anonymous organ donation and personally donating, say, a kidney to someone. The latter is a beautiful act of charity that both might live. The former is a real slippery slope, where others decide what is done with our bodies after we are gone, and we often have no idea what exactly becomes of organs removed and the circumstances surrounding it. Could be beatific, could be diabolic.
It is a mistake to suppose that organ donation after death achieves certain and unqualified good, unlike the kidney example.
It is a form of Manichaeism to treat the body as disposable after death.
All of this makes organ donation a much more dubious thing than its champions aver. It DOES do good - sometimes. But the increasing loss of Christian ethos makes it more and more likely that it will be used for evil.

Xenophon · Oct 10, 2020

rusmeister said:
Our bodies are not our own.
I think there is a significant difference between anonymous organ donation and personally donating, say, a kidney to someone. The latter is a beautiful act of charity that both might live. The former is a real slippery slope, where others decide what is done with our bodies after we are gone, and we often have no idea what exactly becomes of organs removed and the circumstances surrounding it. Could be beatific, could be diabolic.
It is a mistake to suppose that organ donation after death achieves certain and unqualified good, unlike the kidney example.
It is a form of Manichaeism to treat the body as disposable after death.
All of this makes organ donation a much more dubious thing than its champions aver. It DOES do good - sometimes. But the increasing loss of Christian ethos makes it more and more likely that it will be used for evil.

There are some people I would gladly give an organ to. And if I knew my organ could save someone who I knew personally, I would certainly consider it.

Being an organ donor - never, for the reasons you give.

Justin-H.S. · Oct 10, 2020

Russ, my wife donated a kidney for philanthropic reasons. It went to “a woman with really neat handwriting.” It didn’t stop her from being chrismated. (Just to back up your point)

Tolworth John · Oct 12, 2020

Justin-H.S. said:
Even in death we (as in Orthodox Christians) believe in a bodily resurrection, so I’m not sure if we’re supposed to be resurrected sans body parts, but then again many were martyred with decapitation so who knows? I think it depends on the circumstances of the death.

We all believe in a bodily resurrection. That is not the point.
Jesus made enough food to feed 5k men out of five small loaves! He turned a hundred gallons of water into the finest wine.
He was the one who with a word made out of nothing everything.

Most bodies turn into dust, are eaten by worms and bacteria the bodily parts are not there and in many cases even the bones are not there.

God can give us new bodies, in fact Paul says our new bodies will be as different from what we now have as a grain of wheat is different from the stalk of wheat.

We can be generous in our giving of cash, of our time, and of our bodies literally in donating what at death we no longer need.

rusmeister · Oct 12, 2020

Tolworth John said:
We all believe in a bodily resurrection. That is not the point.
Jesus made enough food to feed 5k men out of five small loaves! He turned a hundred gallons of water into the finest wine.
He was the one who with a word made out of nothing everything.

Most bodies turn into dust, are eaten by worms and bacteria the bodily parts are not there and in many cases even the bones are not there.

God can give us new bodies, in fact Paul says our new bodies will be as different from what we now have as a grain of wheat is different from the stalk of wheat.

We can be generous in our giving of cash, of our time, and of our bodies literally in donating what at death we no longer need.

I think we get that you are a proponent, and agree that it can be charitable to give. I’m not sure, though, that you’ve considered the pitfalls. You certainly seem to think that no evil can come out of the growth of a massive organ harvesting industry.

InnerPhyre · Oct 15, 2020

Speaking as someone who has worked in a hospital and seen probably a hundred or more times the life saving gift that organ donors provide, I would say Christians should ask whether we can still be called Christians if we don’t donate our organs.

Xenophon · Oct 15, 2020

InnerPhyre said:
Speaking as someone who has worked in a hospital and seen probably a hundred or more times the life saving gift that organ donors provide, I would say Christians should ask whether we can still be called Christians if we don’t donate our organs.

How about no.

rusmeister · Oct 16, 2020

I think we all agree that the practice has done good. I'm not sure all agree that the practice can do bad. A thing can be good in one circumstance and bad in another. Treating this as an unqualified good that cannot be used to do evil is unwise and naive. We should praise the good and condemn the evil, and recognize that the tendency of fallen human nature is towards the evil and away from the good.

Justin-H.S. · Oct 16, 2020

"Thou shalt donate your organs."

Knee V · Oct 16, 2020

InnerPhyre said:
Speaking as someone who has worked in a hospital and seen probably a hundred or more times the life saving gift that organ donors provide, I would say Christians should ask whether we can still be called Christians if we don’t donate our organs.

I disagree, because of this:

Knee V said:
I am not claiming to speak on behalf of the Church. The following view is my own.

Whereas the definition of "death" that is used in order to justify removing organs from a person is a false definition, I am not registered as an organ donor.

All that is necessary for a person's organs to be removed is that the person have an unresponsive nervous system. That is not what death is, and many people in that state regain full operation of their nervous system and make a full recovery. With limited exceptions (e.g., someone is killed catastrophically and their organs can be quickly removed), all organs are removed from live people who are artificially kept alive until the procedure is complete. The organs of a person who is truly dead cannot be successfully given to another person.

prodromos · Oct 18, 2020

InnerPhyre said:
Speaking as someone who has worked in a hospital and seen probably a hundred or more times the life saving gift that organ donors provide, I would say Christians should ask whether we can still be called Christians if we don’t donate our organs.

Are we capable of judging whether the failure of a person's organs is not something permitted by God for the salvation of their soul? When faced with certain death, are organ donations causing people to turn to doctors for the hope of extending their lives instead of turning to God?
Which is more beneficial, that people live longer but ultimately die eternally, or repent, die and live eternally?

Is it against the Church to be an organ donor?

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